Darkfall Ameliorations

[Silencer]

The Vault-Tec Games website was updated with news about Darkfall, which should convince us this Tactics mod is being worked on.<blockquote>The game has currently assumed the following shape:
- the begginning corresponds to what we've seen in the demo.
- the following chapter is the escape from the Council prison after being captured in Forsayth city(in the demo it was the escape from the city with Hudsonem); from this moment onward you're free to roam the world (like Awaken, fo1/2 ), performing certain main quests will net you the opportunity to join one of the three key factions.

(...)

The final change is introduction of new player skills. Old combat abilities have been replaced by those: (...)
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(...)

Random encounters will add to the variation, as they will be made Fallout style - small, randomly placed locations with concrete, if random parameters - (unlike Tactics' green Deathclaws or ill-skinned raiders. etc.).</blockquote>Good luck to them.

Łącze: Vault-Tec Games Website

Spotted at Trzynasty Schron

 

[zeller]

good news indeed.
But not updating the english verion of the site is not nice. It made me think the project was dead.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

The final change is introduction of new player skills. Old combat abilities have been replaced by those: (...)

Grr!! I wish they'd get on with the mod rather than trying to reinvent the engine/SPECIAL. Guns are overpowered enough without adding a sniper skill. And that'll mess up the perks, someone wants to specialise with sniper weapons, the only perk they'll get is heave ho. The skill light system they came up with was bad enough, there's nothing wrong with FOT's skills (except lack of speech) there just needs to be some quests/opportunities to make use of them.

TRandom encounters will add to the variation, as they will be made Fallout style - small, randomly placed locations with concrete, if random parameters - (unlike Tactics' green Deathclaws or ill-skinned raiders. etc.).</blockquote>Good luck to them.

The english page hasn't been updated is there any more info on the random encounters? I'd like to know how they are planning to do this (other than make them all special encounters).

 

[Tails]

Grr!! I wish they'd get on with the mod rather than trying to reinvent the engine/SPECIAL

Its hard to get on with mod, when you got lack of people...

Guns are overpowered enough without adding a sniper skill.

They wont be... you see after mod is finished.

there's nothing wrong with FOT's skills (except lack of speech) there just needs to be some quests/opportunities to make use of them.

Well we working on it... there will be speech skill, and quest's using it.

is there any more info on the random encounters? I'd like to know how they are planning to do this (other than make them all special encounters).

Random encounters are for now secret When we finish game you will know how its works.

The game should be ended about six month ago, but no one is interested in help, only waiting for ready product... But we will finish Darkfall.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Its hard to get on with mod, when you got lack of people...

That's a load of rubbish, the one good thing about modding FOT is that one person can do the lot. You don't need scripters, there's no need for compiling, tiling is a doodle. Boring but a doodle and given DargH's prediliction for recycling the default maps not an issue. The only thing a mod for FOT requires is dedication (and maybe translation).

They wont be... you see after mod is finished.

Not more 3 kilo bullets and 10 ton rifles I hope.

Well we working on it... there will be speech skill, and quest's using it.

Using MagnumOpus' speech tree system?

But you do see that adding skill lights and zones etc made three times as much work just to repair an item when there's an already perfectly good repair skill. Likewise the weapons are already balanced in FOT, except for a few abberations, the real problem was placement. Changing the skills and trying to rebalance them just adds more work. No wonder you're 6 months behind.

Random encounters are for now secret When we finish game you will know how its works.

That's kind of selfish, not in the spirit of the community. Where would you be if all the people who had made custom tiles and sprites had kept them back until their own projects were done? Or other modders who had come up with work arounds or solutions for known problems? Even farther behind than you are now.

 

[chewie]

That's kind of selfish, not in the spirit of the community. Where would you be if all the people who had made custom tiles and sprites had kept them back until their own projects were done? Or other modders who had come up with work arounds or solutions for known problems? Even farther behind than you are now.

I can´t share this opinion. For me it is alright if you hold back your work until you´re done. What would be the holy benefit of playing this mod if you find all the used gfx, scripts and ideas in other mods which implemented this things before you had the chance to release your project?

Forbidding use of your work after your release is a complete other discussion and shouldn´t be merged with this issue.

 

[Tails]

That's a load of rubbish, the one good thing about modding FOT is that one person can do the lot. You don't need scripters, there's no need for compiling, tiling is a doodle. Boring but a doodle and given DargH's prediliction for recycling the default maps not an issue. The only thing a mod for FOT requires is dedication (and maybe translation).

Realise that we GOT A LIFE.We are working, going to shools etc. Our life don't depends on sitting by FT TOOLS 24/H... and if you say it so easy maybe you help ? all you can do is grumble, like most of people.

Not more 3 kilo bullets and 10 ton rifles I hope.

Mystary !

Using MagnumOpus' speech tree system?

maybe

But you do see that adding skill lights and zones etc made three times as much work just to repair an item when there's an already perfectly good repair skill. Likewise the weapons are already balanced in FOT, except for a few abberations, the real problem was placement. Changing the skills and trying to rebalance them just adds more work. No wonder you're 6 months behind.

The idea with changing skills is new. You don't know anything about Darkfall production.. so don't estimate us so hastily...

That's kind of selfish, not in the spirit of the community. Where would you be if all the people who had made custom tiles and sprites had kept them back until their own projects were done? Or other modders who had come up with work arounds or solutions for known problems? Even farther behind than you are now.

Well we maybe want to make a SUPRISE for community... And make a good "formula" to show rest of people, after we end work...
Your selfish not us Realise that community isn't helping us to much.. were is this spirit you mentioned ?
Regards,

 

[Silencer]

Your selfish not us Realise that community isn't helping us to much.. were is this spirit you mentioned ?

Maybe they're busy pwning teh n00bz on ESL?

If you don't show nothing, you don't evoke interest, if you don't evoke interest, you don't evoke a will to help you. Vicious circle.

Ah well Best of luck to you

 

[Oracle]

If you don't show nothing, you don't evoke interest, if you don't evoke interest, you don't evoke a will to help you. Vicious circle.

Quoted for truth.

If I didn't have such a lovely sig, I would have put that line in

BUT I wish you the best of luck as well Darkfall team!

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

What would be the holy benefit of playing this mod if you find all the used gfx, scripts and ideas in other mods which implemented this things before you had the chance to release your project?

You don't need to have custom graphics, plenty of good standalone maps haven't used any. But even if your mod does, well since it's most likely you'll still be using over 75% of FOTs default graphics which everyone else is using then the answer must be in the storytelling.

But taking that attitude why bother with modding forums? Just submit your mod to the news section when it's done. No need to help people out figuring a work around for a problem, just let them rip your mod apart once it's released.

Never mind that most mods sink before seeing the light of day taking their custom work with them, and if someone gets stuck trying to work out how to do something they might just give up and then how many mods will there be?

Realise that we GOT A LIFE.We are working, going to shools etc. Our life don't depends on sitting by FT TOOLS 24/H...

Yeah the same for every other modder, what makes you special?

Face it if you're 6 months behind, might it be you've bitten off more than you can chew? Why not cut it down to a managable size. I mean how long has the mod been in production? Two years? And yet you were only on the forum last month looking for quest writers. At this stage of the mod don't you think it's a little late to be adding new stuff in, especially if you are 6 months behind?

The idea with changing skills is new.

Again don't you think it's a little late to be adding in new ideas? Or that people might want mods for FOT not the Darkfall team's experiments into how much can we change?

You don't know anything about Darkfall production.. so don't estimate us so hastily...

I've played the demo, and the skill lights system was in that, not that it worked, and I've been modding this game for 5 years now so I think I've got a good idea of how much extra work these 'new' systems take to implement.

Well we maybe want to make a SUPRISE for community

Or maybe you replied without talking to someone in the team who actually knows how it works.

Your selfish not us Realise that community isn't helping us to much.. were is this spirit you mentioned

So I should put my own work aside? My mod isn't as important as yours? Same goes for all the other modders? And what about all the custom tiles and sprites used in the project, the tiles that didn't get credited in the demo, or all the sage advice people have posted on various forums over the years, without which I doubt Darkfall or even Awaken would of gotten off the ground?

The community isn't there to write the mod for you, or build the maps for you, there's plenty of support available. Just don't expect people to come in and do the actual work, that smells to much like [ROE] Sna... sorry Amaru.

I'll say it again the best thing about modding FOT is you don't need anything else, or anyone else, to get it done just dedication.

 

[chewie]

You don't need to have custom graphics, plenty of good standalone maps haven't used any. But even if your mod does, well since it's most likely you'll still be using over 75% of FOTs default graphics which everyone else is using then the answer must be in the storytelling.

But taking that attitude why bother with modding forums? Just submit your mod to the news section when it's done. No need to help people out figuring a work around for a problem, just let them rip your mod apart once it's released.

I am completely talking about custom gfx, scripts and ideas.

But taking that attitude why bother with modding forums? Just submit your mod to the news section when it's done. No need to help people out figuring a work around for a problem, just let them rip your mod apart once it's released.

No need to mix up to different things. I´m glad to help with FIFE modding issues (as this is the engine I´m working with). Just as an example: I´m not willing to commit our gfx or scripts to the community until Zero is released. But ... If you want to know how to write script snippet XY, then I´ll give you hints & help as far as I am able to. But I don´t write the code for you.

Complaining about non-public (custom) ressources like gfx sounds to me like "I don´t want to do it myself, please give me yours". And seriously, I can´t stand that.

And if a mod goes down without a release, my attitude in this case would be: release the unfinished stuff to the community. _My attitude_ - perhaps not the one of all people out there.

Basically I guess we´re talking about the same things with slightly different opinions - so there is IMO no need to go on with OT.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

I've asked for tiles before to be exclusive to my mod in the past, but then I'm working on a WW2 conversion so they wouldn't fit in with general PA maps anyway. But with FOT there's only a handful of 3d artists interested enough to produce quality work and so we have to share resources.

But that's not what you asked,

What would be the holy benefit of playing this mod if you find all the used gfx, scripts and ideas in other mods which implemented this things before you had the chance to release your project?

unless it's just a mod to change graphics then it's not really important if they've been used before. Likewise the triggers are limited to finite choices in FOT, so you will see a lot of the same 'events' and ideas. But it's how you put it all together that counts.

Back to my question, there's only a couple of ways I can think of (off the top of my head) to get around the engine randomly selecting skin, hair and team colours in random encounters. One is to make them all special encounters, though that has it's drawbacks. Or to have dummy entities which are spawned by the engine (which the player will never see) and have the actual entities the player will interact with on the map deactivated. Then activate the appropriate (seemly random) entities via triggers depending on circumstances.

I don't see what's the fuss about keeping the method secret, unless they've gone a third way and hacked the exe, since the technical aspects aren't going to mean anything to non modders.

 

[Tails]

Yeah the same for every other modder, what makes you special?

Guess

If you don't show nothing, you don't evoke interest, if you don't evoke interest, you don't evoke a will to help you. Vicious circle.

There are news on some sites, Demo was released, what more people want ? Naked Chicks ?

Face it if you're 6 months behind, might it be you've bitten off more than you can chew?

With that team we got ? yes

size. I mean how long has the mod been in production? Two years?

Hm i not from beginning by Darkfall production (i joined after realising demo), but i remember there was a "year brake".

And yet you were only on the forum last month looking for quest writers.

basically it gonna be bigger then awaken, and we trying to put as many we can.

Again don't you think it's a little late to be adding in new ideas? Or that people might want mods for FOT not the Darkfall team's experiments into how much can we change?

Truly ? Darkfall deserve more for calling it a game not a mod... we want give something MORE then others mods. We gonna make Darkfall like we want

Or maybe you replied without talking to someone in the team who actually knows how it works

Yeah, ! the skill changing system is also part of fake news !

So I should put my own work aside? My mod isn't as important as yours?

Throw every thing into the trash ! seriously I only mentioned that community isn't' helping us to much. On some site there is news, even i sometimes write to people pm on forums asking for help,... and we still got the same squad. I know some people that know good FT TOOLS, and don't want to help, but they grumble, about Awaken and Darkfall....

Same goes for all the other modders? And what about all the custom tiles and sprites used in the project, the tiles that didn't get credited in the demo, or all the sage advice people have posted on various forums over the years, without which I doubt Darkfall or even Awaken would of gotten off the ground?

Yes, blame us !
About credits ask DargH, i join Vaul-Tec Games after release demo. About the sage/post/tutorials i don't use it. All i learn my self things in FT TOOLS (i don't like reading tutorials ). But hey, don't worry there will be credits in full release.

I don't see what's the fuss about keeping the method secret, unless they've gone a third way and hacked the exe, since the technical aspects aren't going to mean anything to non modders.

Like i mentioned, we want that someone who plays (especially new players, who don't know anything about FT Mod)ready product, said: "omfg this is so cool !" and i hope that everyone who plays Darkfall will like the game. I hope that requiem_for_a_starfury will like it too
Regards,

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Guess

Answer is, no you're not.

With that team we got ? yes

Then go ahead with what your team is capable of. How many people are working on it now anyway? There's 4 mappers listed and two credited with donating maps. Even with real life and only working a couple of hours a week each of you ought to be able to produce a map a month.

What do you need help with?

basically it gonna be bigger then awaken, and we trying to put as many we can.

Awaken was too big, too many empty locations that weren't even interesting to look at because they were either badly tiled or just ripped from the main game. But my point was that this far into the mod with demo released and what not, it's bad planning to be still looking for new quests to add. The plot and side quests should of all been planned out from the start. It's one thing for an individual modder to work that way but a team project has to be organised. Or it runs behind and never gets finished.

It's not quantity that counts but quality.

Truly ? Darkfall deserve more for calling it a game not a mod... we want give something MORE then others mods. We gonna make Darkfall like we want

It's a mod, that's all it will ever be, learn to live with it or licence the engine from MF.

Yeah, ! the skill changing system is also part of fake news !

The credits page says you are a mapper, not that you know the mechanics. Just because you know how to put two tiles together artistically (giving you the benefit of the doubt here) doesn't mean you know how the game is being triggered or set peices are being set up. Perhaps we should wait until a more knowledgable member of the team shows up.

I know some people that know good FT TOOLS, and don't want to help, but they grumble, about Awaken and Darkfall....

Some people didn't like Awaken, and don't want to get involved with Darkfall since it looks like more of the same.

Yes, blame us !

For what?

About the sage/post/tutorials i don't use it. All i learn my self things in FT TOOLS (i don't like reading tutorials

Good for you, but can you say the same for the rest of the team? Can you say that no one read a tutorial on how to use spray? Or for adding new individual weapon sounds etc?

Like i mentioned, we want that someone who plays (especially new players, who don't know anything about FT Mod)ready product, said: "omfg this is so cool !"

And how very Haris of you. But how does discussion between two modders affect that?

I hope that requiem_for_a_starfury will like it too
Regards,

If it still uses the skill light system and continues to mess around with the other skills I doubt that very much.

 

[Sorrow]

Tails -> Could you tell us something about the Darkfall universe?

 

[Tails]

Then go ahead with what your team is capable of. How many people are working on it now anyway? There's 4 mappers listed and two credited with donating maps. Even with real life and only working a couple of hours a week each of you ought to be able to produce a map a month.

What do you need help with?

I mentioned month ago in others news.

Awaken was too big, too many empty locations that weren't even interesting to look at because they were either badly tiled or just ripped from the main game. But my point was that this far into the mod with demo released and what not, it's bad planning to be still looking for new quests to add. The plot and side quests should of all been planned out from the start. It's one thing for an individual modder to work that way but a team project has to be organised. Or it runs behind and never gets finished.

It's not quantity that counts but quality.

3/4 Awaken was done by DargH... well it could look much better but there was no one that could help in that... again complain of people who could help BUT they didn't. I taking care about maps that they don't look like in Awaken (same tile as floor etc.) because i didn't like it too.. but still i got respect to DargH for Awaken because its still good piece of work.

The credits page says you are a mapper, not that you know the mechanics. Razz Just because you know how to put two tiles together artistically (giving you the benefit of the doubt here) doesn't mean you know how the game is being triggered or set peices are being set up. Perhaps we should wait until a more knowledgable member of the team shows up.

If DargH write something like that, it means ta will be working... And yes i know FT mechanic (but not so much as dar) again you trying been "smart", even you don't know us., our you are too sceptic

Some people didn't like Awaken, and don't want to get involved with Darkfall since it looks like more of the same.

Well if someone thinks that darkfall will be the same like Awaken its a stereotype, typical for curb people How you can judge something, without knowledge about production ?

Good for you, but can you say the same for the rest of the team? Can you say that no one read a tutorial on how to use spray? Or for adding new individual weapon sounds etc?

Hm dunn, ask them, i don't ask them about skills...

And how very Haris of you. But how does discussion between two modders affect that?

"Haris" (that guy from WM mod ?) because we want that players have good fun. ? Second, it hard to discuss me with you about modding with mine weak english. If you were from Poland we could discuss much easier.

If it still uses the skill light system and continues to mess around with the other skills I doubt that very much.

Well we cant make all people on the world happy.... One like it, others not.

Tails -> Could you tell us something about the Darkfall universe?

With my weak knowledge of English not, but DargH write some about it on DF site, and Shamo.

And i almost forget, thanks for cheers people
[edit]
Fixed...

 

[Silencer]

It's "you're" or "you are", goddamit!

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

I mentioned month ago in others news.

That you wanted mappers and quest writers, but you haven't answered how many people are still working on the mod or how much still needs to be done? Four mappers is more than sufficient to make a large mod, if only the rest of us could be so lucky to recruit so many people. FOT doesn't need 20- 30 people working on a single mod, it's not like making a mod using unrealed, hammer or radiant.

3/4 Awaken was done by DargH... well it could look much better but there was no one that could help in that... again complain of people who could help BUT they didn't.

Rubbish, I'll say it again. FOT modding doesn't require specialists if you can't map don't start a project. If you are part of a team and everyone else leaves cut it down and release what you have.

but still i got respect to DargH for Awaken because its still good piece of work.

I'd have to disagree with you there.

again you trying been "smart",

No trying about it.

Well if someone thinks that darkfall will be the same like Awaken its a stereotype, typical for curb people How you can judge something, without knowledge about production ?

We all judge people on previous experiences I might not know if you all get together and discuss the mod while playing deathmatch but I have played Awaken and the demo, more importantly I've taken them apart in the editor. I have read your posts and the news at your website and seen where the emphasis has been placed in promoting the mod. This is what anyone will use to form an impression of you, until the mod is finished and released.

The fact that after all this time the final version of Awaken still didn't address two game stopping bugs. Or that the Darkfall demo put so much emphasis on the skill light system but the actual examples, in the missions proper, weren't set up properly and so didn't work says much about the team and it's production ethic.

I know what work is required to make a mod so it isn't trying to be clever to say it's bad planning to want new quest writers when the mod is so far along.

In your own words,

we want give something MORE then others mods.

we want that someone who plays (especially new players, who don't know anything about FT Mod)ready product, said: "omfg this is so cool !"

You make it sound like a competition, you don't say you want to make the best mod you possibly can. You say you want to make the best mod going! Then just whine that no one is willing to help you.

You don't need more workers, you need to get on and do some work rather than messing around renaming skills.

Second, it hard to discuss me with you about modding with mine weak english. If you were from Poland we could discuss much easier.

Funnily I thought you were American, your english has been fine up until now.

 

[Ausir]

Tails's English is definitely better than the Glutton Creeper guy's and *he* is American.

 

[Tails]

That you wanted mappers and quest writers, but you haven't answered how many people are still working on the mod or how much still needs to be done?

I don't have contact with all.. so sorry i cant tell you exactly number Most of work is done.

You make it sound like a competition, you don't say you want to make the best mod you possibly can. You say you want to make the best mod going! Then just whine that no one is willing to help you.

This make me laught loudly it not a competition... you strange underestimate my words... again. I want that Darkfall give a PLEASURE to people who will play it, i don't want to make biggest/the best mod in the world.

I'd have to disagree with you there.

So make something better Still grumble.

No trying about it.

Not really

Awaken still didn't address two game stopping bugs.

What bugs ?

know what work is required to make a mod so it isn't trying to be clever to say it's bad planning to want new quest writers when the mod is so far along.

I don't see anything wrong to add some side-quests at end of production Darkfall.

You don't need more workers, you need to get on and do some work rather than messing around renaming skills.

Well we can get on work and remake skills. I still think that with skills is good idea

Funnily I thought you were American, your english has been fine up until now.

Tails's English is definitely better than the Glutton Creeper guy's

"Fenks"