Discussing racism in the Fallout universe

[PaxVenire]

As we know the Fallout universe is one where American exceptionalism took root in the hearts and minds of the American people, and after WWII, much like our very own 1950s a sense of conformity and uniformity was prevalent, lasting for over a century, all the way up to the end of the world. Now obviously when the world is blasted back to the Stone Age and every day is a struggle to see the next day, Old World racism or American exceptionalism xenophobia as it was before isn’t much cared for or talked about, especially 100-200 years after the Great War, rather mostly being replaced with speciesism such as the human hatred for mutants. Xenophobia still exists to a degree with tribals being looked down upon, but not human-human colorism/racism.

Fallout 3 and New Vegas through Old World Blues gives us a look at pre-war racism when it comes to Chinese American citizens. Much like our wartime actions against the Japanese, Chinese American citizens were interned in camps, falsely flagged as spies, and in Fallout they’re even experimented on for military research. Makes perfect sense for the world of Fallout. Aside from these examples of a more sort of wartime paranoia, white/black/brown racism and immigration xenophobia isn’t really touched on.

I don’t accept the consensus “colorism/racism/xenophobia didn’t exist in Fallout’s universe” or “racism wasn’t like it was in our universe” people like to say, of course it existed. The more likely answer is that touching on that subject when writing pre-war lore and pre-war terminal entries, even if it made perfect sense for the world of Fallout, would be extremely controversial.

I’m sure a lot of you have ideas for Fallout, maybe ideas even set elsewhere from the core region like Texas, New Orleans, or even Washington DC, Boston, and West Virginia. What are some ideas you have/had about dealing with this subject matter in the universe if you have it set in a setting you are writing for pre-war lore?

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

I think @Jogre explains why Fallout doesn’t need to and probably shouldn’t portray 50s-style racism in this comment:

I mean absolutely it would be cool to have areas like the Capital Wasteland be majority black, due to the demographics of Washington DC.

I think the problem with the take @Proletären had is that it assumed the same ethnic tensions in the real world translate over to the Fallout world, something that I don't think is a good idea. Like he suggested Black Wastelanders form an underclass of the Capital Wasteland. Now I don't know how an apocalypse would play out IRL, but I kinda don't think this is a good discussion for a Fallout game to have.

I feel like wacky pulp Sci Fi settings aren't the best place to have nuanced discussions of actual discrimination. Like, not only would it create a lot of expectations for the writers to handle it with real nuance that I don't think would come naturally to post-apocalyptic setting writers, but if handled poorly could make a lot of Black and Minority Ethnic players feel uncomfortable with a game that they don't need to feel uncomfortable with. Moreover, even handled well, Fallout is about post-apocalyptic civilisations with Mutants and shit, making a player literally have to confront discrimination they face, in a game that's mostly taking place in a Fantasy world, feels like it'd be dangerous if implemented poorly.

So basically in short: real world representation is a good idea, but having it so players have to face racial discrimination within what's effectively a Fantasy universe kinda feels a little confrontational for no good reason.

That being said, I think it’s best to think of racism in the Fallout universe as analogous to the U.S. post-Civil Rights era of the late 70s and 80s. Racism isn’t considered a polite topic to discuss, most pay lip service to the idea that all men are created equal while still maintaining prejudices against certain groups, and there exists plenty of economic inequality between whites and non-whites.

 

[PaxVenire]

Fallout doesn’t need to and probably shouldn’t portray 50s-style racism

Yes, I absolutely agree. 50s racism would definitely be way too much for the universe, especially when we get into the 21st century and all the other shit starts to become more of a predominant issue. Realistically that type of Jim Crow laws racism would have been long gone as even in the real world 1950s it was on its last legs.

That being said, I think it’s best to think of racism in the Fallout universe as analogous to the U.S. post-Civil Rights era of the late 70s and 80s.

This absolutely makes sense for the Fallout universe.

When I say I want to touch on the subject or inject it into the setting I’m not talking about overtly forcing the player to face discrimination for the skin color of their character, beat them over the head with anti racist commentary, or be edgy and make like a Jim Crow laws Vault or KKK raiders, but rather ways that can show that prejudice still existed in the Fallout universe, even economically as you say.

Perhaps something along the lines of a pre-war terminal that has the statistics of residents who were able to purchase/reserve spots in a vault being drastically more white than black or brown?

Monuments/statues having history texts that show a very one-sided Americanized version of history like textbooks used to do?

Evidence of a pre-war organization similar to that of the NAACP?

The Chinese American internment camps were a great example, shockingly implemented first by Bethesda if I recall correctly.

 

[beans00]

TLDR for someone who isn't autistic?

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

TLDR for someone who isn't autistic?

TLDR:

 

[beans00]

TLDR:

I don't like reading essays written by cuckolds

 

[YeeCop]

I was under the impression that the existence of ghouls and super mutants left no room for racial bigotry. Why focus any hatred towards a black/white/yellow man? At least the skin isn't rotting off his face like those zombie ghouls.
I wouldn't dismiss it nonetheless. You read terminal entries of some of the pre-War war hawk patriots (especially in Lonesome Road) and they use that jingoistic anti-communist 50s jargon, and it does hint they might harbor the same period views relating to race.

The Chinese American internment camps were a great example, shockingly implemented first by Bethesda if I recall correctly.

Yes. There were also hippies/leftist activists in pre-War America, as evidenced by Hidden Valley graffiti for example, so there was rightful indignation at events like that happening.

 

[beans00]

Then apparently you lack the brain cells to steer clear of a discussion post in the discussion forum.

 

[Hassknecht]

My guess was usually that the "traditional" racism against Blacks in America was superceded by more against the Chinese. A common enemy unites, a bit like how anti-muslim/Arab sentiments somewhat buried the hatchet after 9/11. "We're all Americans and all in this together against them", that sort of thing.
It still existed, no doubt about it, but with the New Plague, the extreme recession, limited nuclear exchanges since 2054, and the world generally going down the drain for decades, people didn't really have time to bother with old problems. So I think people rather focused on the Chinese, until the Great War itself became the great equalizer and buried even that.

 

[PaxVenire]

I was under the impression that the existence of ghouls and super mutants left no room for racial bigotry. Why focus any hatred towards a black/white/yellow man? At least the skin isn't rotting off his face like those zombie ghouls.

I mean I'm sure it's deterred pre-war racism a lot on the West Coast and Southwest, but as you said I wouldn't put Old War prejudice aside completely, especially in areas where Super Mutants and FEV doesn't (or at least isn't supposed to) exist like the East.

and it does hint they might harbor the same period views relating to race.

I can definitely see a post-war society (especially in the early years after the War) retaining extreme hatred for who they believe started the war (Americans to the Chinese and vice versa)