DLC Content and Modding - not allowed by Bethesda

F

FourAces

First time out of the vault
Anyone planning on modding the DLC content should be warned that Bethesda considers this illegal distribution. Their reasoning is that players without the DLC could still use this content without having to purchase the DLC. The only way that they consider it legal is if we can somehow find a way to get the mod to check for the valid DLC before the mod will load.

Since this came directly to me from Bethesda, due to Fallout 3 Nexus thinking that my Meshes were violating copyright laws, this is official. The banning of a previous work on the Bethsoft forum concerned the Knights of the Nine DLC for Oblivion. This is why this was mentioned in the first quote below, but both of these were excerpts from emails today (Jan 26/09) concerning my TexMesh mod for Fallout 3.

"...If you’re able to make the mod so it requires that you already have Knights of the Nine, that should be fine."

"... if you made a mod using assets from Operation: Anchorage without requiring someone to own the DLC, that would be an issue."

If anyone knows of a way to check for DLC installation then this would fulfil our obligations as modders. Does anyone with Oblivion experience know how this was archived or was the DLC content considered Taboo?
 
Hm? As far as I know, it is possible to set a DLC file as a master file so that this file is needed to play the mod. So - as far as I know - there shouldn't be any problems with this.

This...

"... if you made a mod using assets from Operation: Anchorage without requiring someone to own the DLC, that would be an issue."
Click to expand...

...is understandable of course.
 
I know how to mod something in DLC without re-distributing the DLC itself.

It's called FOSE scripting!

As long as the edits desired are relatively minor, a script can be used to do it without actually including any of the DLC's content.

And FOSE can check to see if the DLC needed is installed or not too.
 
this is the exact same thing that happened with the DLC stuff in Oblivion.

no major problem, just make sure the DLC file is needed as a master to make the mod work...
 
How could I build a DLC Texture replacement that requires the DLC to be present before any user could get and use a copy? Most people are misunderstanding that this is not about running the content, but making the DLC content available to the general public, whom might or might not have the DLC. So far it sounds like they did not actually do this with Oblivion, and that I could probably get DLC content for Oblivion right now from mods. I might then have to decompress it from one file type to regular .dds format, but that is easy. Then I could use it in my regular game with a little work.

Playing the devil's advocate, it would be simple for me to decompress any DLC modded texuture.bsa that is released and use those textures in the Vanilla game with a little editing in Photoshop CS4. It will be even easier when the textures are just loose since no BSA unpacker is required. For example, most of the armor textures are very similar and it would not take more than an hour to convert one armor texture into another to be used in the Vanilla game. The person giving me that content for me to alter for my own, personal use, would be facing an issue with Bethesda.

On the Bethesda forum (http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=947592) it is being suggested that a simple disclaimer is all that is needed. This is just to tell the user that they are supposed to be good and have a copy of the DLC before downloading. I hope that is the case, but seriously doubt it.

I do not want to waste time modding what I cannot release.

Thanks for helping me with this!
 
well as for DLC textures it doesnt really matter now does it?

since the textures are linked to the models wich are in turn linked to the DLC.

now, if you provide the models in the download THEN youre in violation...

However, if you make a new model based on the DLC, THEN you cannot release it...
i think that was the problem with some of the DLC for Oblivion...
 
Oddball_E8 said:
well as for DLC textures it doesnt really matter now does it?

since the textures are linked to the models wich are in turn linked to the DLC.

now, if you provide the models in the download THEN youre in violation...

However, if you make a new model based on the DLC, THEN you cannot release it...
i think that was the problem with some of the DLC for Oblivion...
Click to expand...
I can see that being the issue with armors, but guns....well, that's a unique situation.

Take the Gauss Rifle for example. It has a unique reloading animation that's separate from the model. So really, if one was to release a scopeless version with different ammo mechanics.... well, it still wouldn't work great without the other assets to it, right?

My question then is...what happens if someone makes a Gauss Rifle from scratch then? Something that is very similar, but not the same model and so forth? A bit more work, sure, but sounds like it'll be better off that way.
 
nemetoad said:
Oddball_E8 said:
well as for DLC textures it doesnt really matter now does it?

since the textures are linked to the models wich are in turn linked to the DLC.
Click to expand...

Not really. I can take any mod using DLC content apart and use those textures on meshes from the Vanilla game. Some might not even have require any work to convert, since many of the textures and meshes are patterned off the same originals. One suit of clothing or armor is nearly identical to others, and I would expect this to continue with the DLC building off this pattern.

If you release a mod of a suit of armor in a DLC, I can quickly adapt it to work with a mesh from the original game.

Sure it would look a lot better if I ripped off both the mesh and all the textures that it uses (some use more than one), but I do not need both type of files to use DLC content in a Vanilla game.

I was hoping that someone would have a definite procedure that was used in Oblivion, but the longer I consider it the more problematical it seems. Either it must be a simple disclaimer -
The person downloading this mod must have the DLC in question -
or else it does not seem that DLC content can ever be shared in a mod legally.
Click to expand...
 
Aye, that would be the best solution I'd assume. And I did notice a lot of the DLC was retextures of current items - makes sense in a lot of cases though, what with the items being in a simulation that wasn't post-nuclear and thus make all weapons extremely worn looking. Same goes with buildings, seeing as how a lot of them were retextures too - though I abhored the Outcast Outpost. Urine yellow does not belong on walls, doors, etc.

In any case there aren't too many things I'd like to see modded out of the current DLC though - probably just adjustments to existing items so they work well on both sexes and also have matching icons in-Pipboy mode. Things like... Chase's jacket, which I believe still uses Autumn's texture for the female version since it wasn't supposed to be stolen.

And also, I have a feeling the Pitt will have more content issues as far as people editting the meshes and the like from the DLC - I noticed in the GECK that there are earring slots and I have a feeling Bethesda is going to be using that in a place full of Raiders, Slavers, and so forth. Actually, I'm also curious if there's Pitt content in the Operation Anchorage BSA and the like - I noticed the GECK shows a "DLC The Pitt" or something folder under statics I think. I also noticed that the Spider Mines in Operation Anchorage are actually on the Fallout 3 files too - known as CryoMines then. It's the same model, but probably just more functioning in the DLC.
 
As posted on the beth forums:

CrazyAce said:
If you the modder use any content from the DLC, extract the bsa's to you data directory and in the GECK pick what you want to use from the DLC that is "unedited". Now when the mod is finished, just upload the esp without the DLC files that are extracted from the data directory.

The purpose of extracting the files is so the moder can pick what to use from the DLC, as long as the player has the DLC they can use the mod the modder made without the modder uploading any content from the DLC.
Click to expand...

Now when it comes to distributing edited material, oddball says it best, but even then that is a thin line.
 
Yea, its a shame Bethesda has to nickle and dime us (or quarter us if you consider the more 'Arcadey' feel of FO3 as it is real time) What happened to companies that released 'Expansion packs' that were as long as the original games for 30$? Or companies like Valve that releases DLC for FREE (except on Xbox Live, but thats cause Microsoft forces them to). I'd blame Microsoft for this too but I doubt bethesda has to release the PC DLC through GfWL
 
Good news, disclaimers only

Good news.

There are over 6 sets of Operation Anchorage armor files being offered as mods. Four of these had disclaimers requiring the DLC only, and the other two did not even have that. By not having any of them taken down in the last week, Bethesda has implicitly confirmed that disclaimers are sufficient (at least for Fallout 3 DLC content). Now I can get OpAnchor and start on those Textures and Meshes.

As to Bethesda screwing us - I do not think I have ever seen an expansion pack so quickly or thoroughly ripped off as OpAnchor was. I tripped over three copies while trying to get reviews of it the day after release. I wonder how many I could have found if I were actually looking for it. I doubt many people actually paid for it, since they are devoting their efforts to expansion instead of fixing the memory holes.

I do not have it yet, and I am not sure that I will get it given the poor premise of it - VR & Nanosuits from Crysis (WTF!)?
 
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