F3 Online II

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This goes out to all you "kill online games" advocates. First of all you would not title it Fallout Online although "FOOL" is pretty clever.(That goes out to you, cool guy, you know who you are) Lets cut to the chase though. I did not want to ruin the single player aspect of the Fallout game in which players take on tasks and quests and carry them out. All I had in mind is that in large cities and random encounters (not quest oriented locations) players could interact with one another, barter and do other activities together. Maybe what Im thinking of is only partially an Online game. Didnt you ever get tired of seeing a really cool looking character in F1 and 2 and then when you clicked on him/her they would just spit out the same phrases over and
over? Wouldnt it have been cool to really have a conversation with one of them? Thats what I want to bring to the game real people with real things to say. Now I know there are alot of jerks out there who conversing with would just be hell but thats life im sorry. You just have to have faith in the true Fallout fan. Now what I had in mind was a world where you could log on to a server and continue the game in a single player mode. Then in certain cities or parts of cities where quests are not involved players could talk, trade, fight (see note to worried newbies), etc. So in other words other players could not ruin the storyline and tasks within the game for you it would just be the normal fallout world with real inhabitants. I would NEVER dream of killing my/the beloved storyline and quests Fallout has always had to offer. NOTE TO WORRIED NEWBIES: a newbie guard would have to be in place to prevent experienced players from killing new ones. Due to the turn based combat system newbies could be given unlimited turns if and experienced player bullied them.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-00 AT 09:27AM (GMT)[p]Like all FOOL supporters, you really have no clue about what you are talking about.

>This goes out to all you
>"kill online games" advocates. First
>of all you would not
>title it Fallout Online although
>"FOOL" is pretty clever.(That goes
>out to you, cool guy,
>you know who you are)
>Lets cut to the chase
>though. I did not want
>to ruin the single player
>aspect of the Fallout game
>in which players take on
>tasks and quests and carry
>them out. All I had
>in mind is that in
>large cities and random encounters
>(not quest oriented locations) players
>could interact with one another,
>barter and do other activities
>together. Maybe what Im thinking
>of is only partially an
>Online game.

So now it resembles a half-ass UO game. As a UO vet of over 2 years, and by playing other online games, I know that they are complete shit. UO did ok, because it's combat was already real-time to a point, but how do you suggest putting hundreds of players together and keep the turn-based aspect? It can't be done, period.

>Didnt you ever
>get tired of seeing a
>really cool looking character in
>F1 and 2 and then
>when you clicked on him/her
>they would just spit out
>the same phrases over and
>
>over? Wouldnt it have been cool
>to really have a conversation
>with one of them?

Don't I get tired of people verbally masturbating over half-assed online game play ideas?

"Hey, it's a good RPG. Let's make an online game!"

If you believe that could work, then you are incredibly naive. Ultima was a great game. But when UO came along, everyone and their 8 year-old brother came on (even though in the AUP it stated that you had to be 18 years of age), and it basically went to shit. The kewl d00ds, the exploiters, etc. You think that RP is in their minds? After two years in UO and other gaming, I can safely say, "Fuck no."

So it becomes an online real-time shooter. Pathetic.

And I suggest you get a clue about online games, really. There is NO "storyline" to speak of, so I don't know what you are smoking to achieve that level of brain damage.

>Thats
>what I want to bring
>to the game real people
>with real things to say.
>Now I know there are
>alot of jerks out there
>who conversing with would just
>be hell but thats life
>im sorry. You just have
>to have faith in the
>true Fallout fan.

As the UDIC said about UO:
"The fans would be lost in the hordes of prepubescant kids killing anything that moves. And the meaning of Ultima will be lost."

Guess what? That could be said of any online game.


Now the next point is contradictory to an extreme:

>Now what
>I had in mind was
>a world where you could
>log on to a server
>and continue the game in
>a single player mode. Then
>in certain cities or parts
>of cities where quests are
>not involved players could talk,
>trade, fight (see note to
>worried newbies), etc. So in
>other words other players could
>not ruin the storyline and
>tasks within the game for
>you it would just be
> the normal fallout world
>with real inhabitants.

WRONG! If you can't see what's wrong with that, I suggest you re-read it all over again. Bartering for bigger guns, etc. will ruin the balance of the game and the storyline.

>I would
>NEVER dream of killing my/the
>beloved storyline and quests Fallout
>has always had to offer.

Here, I would have to say, you have no clue as to game design or how online games work. Or even perhaps how games themselves work.

So, in essence, we have hundreds of Vault Dwellers and Chosen Ones going off on their own, and then have a convention.


So, to do some homework for tomorrow's thrashing...I mean lesson....here is your assignment:

1. Get a clue as to what Fallout is.
2. Get a clue as to why Fallout was designed the way it was.
3. Get a clue as to why most people object when you try to pass them a pathetic idea that has only destroyed other RPG series when they went online.
 
Maybe roshambo should keep his "verbal masturbating" to himself until he reads the whole essay. Some people are just so set in stone on their opinions and their mind so closed that they cant see past previous bad experiences with games. Have you ever thought that maybe you were the asshole on the online game that everyone disliked and thats why you hate online so much, because everyone hated and killed you? In addition turn based combat would be simple in an online world, every player who entered combat would be put on a "list" and get their turn one at a time JUST LIKE IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN. So for homework:
1)smoke some of that good stuff you were refering to (it may help you open your mind)
2)stop wasting my time with your uninformed "verbal masturbation" (favorite word huh?)
 
>Maybe roshambo should keep his "verbal
>masturbating" to himself until he
>reads the whole essay. Some
>people are just so set
>in stone on their opinions
>and their mind so closed
>that they cant see past
>previous bad experiences with games.

Closed minds? How about knowing what I am talking about, as opposed to you, who keeps going on with "it can be done like it's always been done".

>Have you ever thought that
>maybe you were the asshole
>on the online game that
>everyone disliked and thats why
>you hate online so much,
>because everyone hated and killed
>you? In addition turn
>based combat would be simple
>in an online world, every
>player who entered combat would
>be put on a "list"
>and get their turn one
>at a time JUST LIKE
>IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN.

Hey, wow. 400 people loged on, and guess what? Someone starts a fight. Now all 400 are put into a turn-based mode, waiting until each of the 399 others do their turn.

*claps his hand to his forehead*

That's pure fucking genius, I'm suprised I didn't think of it before.

Or do you suppose that only those "individuals" in combat be put into turn-based mode. Then, they are wide open to those still in real-time, who could A) Set off explosives to those trapped in turn-based, or B) Call all your guildmates and surround those trapped in turn-based.

Anything else you would like to point out, or are you still going to prove that you are giving yourself a first-person view of a colonoscopy?
 
Please, not again!!!

Hi there, this goes out there to al the FOOLish people on this board.

>This goes out to all you
>"kill online games" advocates. First
>of all you would not
>title it Fallout Online although
>"FOOL" is pretty clever.(That goes
>out to you, cool guy,
>you know who you are)
>Lets cut to the chase
>though. I did not want
>to ruin the single player
>aspect of the Fallout game
>in which players take on
>tasks and quests and carry
>them out. All I had
>in mind is that in
>large cities and random encounters
>(not quest oriented locations) players
>could interact with one another,
>barter and do other activities
>together.

Then who would be the main character? That's pretty mean. "You wanna play the leading role? Go play the game again when I'm finished)

>Maybe what Im thinking
>of is only partially an
>Online game. Didnt you ever
>get tired of seeing a
>really cool looking character in
>F1 and 2 and then
>when you clicked on him/her
>they would just spit out
>the same phrases over and
>over? Wouldnt it have been cool
>to really have a conversation
>with one of them?

Sure it would be cool. But would you actually have one person play chosen one and the rest junkies, whores, dealers, pimps, slavers, guards, traders (, wolves, deathclaws, aliens) and other side roles. What would they do while there's no chosen one around? And how about travel times? You go from NCR to Vault City on foot and everyone else just skips 30 days or you have to wait realtime. Same goes for resting, reading and skills such as lockpick, science and repair. And what with stealing? Do you honestly believe that time will freeze like in Fallout (2) the RPG and that the other player will stand exactly at the same spot for hours while you decide weither to steal 320 dollars or 4 stims?

>Thats what I want to bring
>to the game real people
>with real things to say.
>Now I know there are
>alot of jerks out there
>who conversing with would just
>be hell but thats life
>im sorry. You just have
>to have faith in the
>true Fallout fan.

Don't get your hopes up, it's a very thin line.

>Now what I had in mind was
>a world where you could
>log on to a server
>and continue the game in
>a single player mode. Then
>in certain cities or parts
>of cities where quests are
>not involved players could talk,
>trade, fight (see note to
>worried newbies), etc.

Fighting would mean having dozens or even hundreds of players going into combat mode. Perhaps it could be solved by sending the combatitants into and isolated copy of the map, with no others, yet how will the computer know who is a combatitant. And unlimited turns wouldn't be fare. How about starting with a very high sequence that decreases as you gain levels. Combat would be to hard to implement, as for trading, that would become a little to complicated so if you'd leave that out as well, all
you'd have is a chatbox or messageboard.

>So in other words other players could
>not ruin the storyline and
>tasks within the game for
>you it would just be
> the normal fallout world
>with real inhabitants.

Here goes my favorite question on this topic. Who would be chosen one? Cause in single player your automatically the chosen one. Do you mean that in multiplayer noone would be Chosen? That everyone just chooses who/what he/she wants to be? So, being a guard or peasant wouldn't make a difference, since you still got the items and skills you had in single player (how would you barter if you hadn't).

> I would NEVER dream of killing my/the
>beloved storyline and quests Fallout
>has always had to offer.
>NOTE TO WORRIED NEWBIES: a
>newbie guard would have to
>be in place to prevent
>experienced players from killing
>new ones. Due to the
>turn based combat system newbies
>could be given unlimited turns
>if and experienced player bullied
>them.

A guard, and now who would that be, you'd need several guards, since you have several towns (each town about a 100 copies, cause of the high number of users)
And now who would this righteous s.o.b. judge be? Rosh? ;-)
And that's just one!

Anyways, don't you even start about 'kill online games' advocates. We are here, to protect you guys from killing RPG's!
 
RE: Please, not again!!!

>Anyways, don't you even start about
>'kill online games' advocates. We
>are here, to protect you
>guys from killing RPG's!



Yeah, look at what happened with Ultima and UO.
Enough said....
 
Real people...

> Maybe what Im thinking
>of is only partially an
>Online game. Didnt you ever
>get tired of seeing a
>really cool looking character in
>F1 and 2 and then
>when you clicked on him/her
>they would just spit out
>the same phrases over and
>over? Wouldnt it have been cool
>to really have a conversation
>with one of them?
> Thats
>what I want to bring
>to the game real people
>with real things to say.
>Now I know there are
>alot of jerks out there
>who conversing with would just
>be hell but thats life
>im sorry. You just have
>to have faith in the
>true Fallout fan. Now what
>I had in mind was
>a world where you could
>log on to a server
>and continue the game in
>a single player mode. Then
>in certain cities or parts
>of cities where quests are
>not involved players could talk,
>trade, fight (see note to
>worried newbies), etc. So in
>other words other players could
>not ruin the storyline and
>tasks within the game for
>you it would just be
> the normal fallout world
>with real inhabitants. I would
>NEVER dream of killing my/the
>beloved storyline and quests Fallout
>has always had to offer.
>NOTE TO WORRIED NEWBIES: a
>newbie guard would have to
>be in place to prevent
>experienced players from killing
>new ones. Due to the
>turn based combat system newbies
>could be given unlimited turns
>if and experienced player bullied
>them.

I'm not even going to describe why your combat system won't work, it doesn't. Two time systems can't co-exist at once. Period. It is a fundamental POSTULATE.

Dr. Frog, like a lot of people you put too much faith into human society. In the *real* world with *real* people, you don't have a bunch of Fallout gurus sitting around in an online environment trying to stay in character so that *one* person can act as the chosen one/vault dweller romping the desert. No, you don't have that.

Instead you have a bunch of kiddies each wanting to get the biggest gun and kill everyone in town. There are no pimps, dealers, Vault City inhabitants, no, there are *real* people, idiots, lamers, PKs, and other dregs of the human race. THAT'S who you will find online.

And what makes you think that everyone will suddently decide to serve your game and your character as the background environment to *your* game? You have to be kidding. We're talking real people here. Hell, even Fallout advocates would say "hell no, I'm not playing the pimp so some guy *might* interact with me."

As for your argument that the storyline will not be broken. Yeah right. Online games *have* no storyline, or else the whole game would collapes after the story ended. Online games are perpetual, i.e. never ending. Thus no storyline. And what does that leave the players to do? Kill each other.

So really, consider what goes on in the real world, not just some fantasy within your head.

-Xotor-

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Closed-mindedness... no-mindedness

>Maybe roshambo should keep his "verbal
>masturbating" to himself until he
>reads the whole essay. Some
>people are just so set
>in stone on their opinions
>and their mind so closed
>that they cant see past
>previous bad experiences with games.
>Have you ever thought that
>maybe you were the asshole
>on the online game that
>everyone disliked and thats why
>you hate online so much,
>because everyone hated and killed
>you? In addition turn
>based combat would be simple
>in an online world, every
>player who entered combat would
>be put on a "list"
>and get their turn one
>at a time JUST LIKE
>IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN. So
>for homework:
>1)smoke some of that good stuff
>you were refering to (it
>may help you open your
>mind)
>2)stop wasting my time with your
>uninformed "verbal masturbation" (favorite word
>huh?)
>

I think you confuse closed-mindedness with accepting reality. Do you not think that Rosh, I and every other anti-FOOL person has not already gone over this topic at least five times? Just scan over the archives and you will see what I mean.

The truth is that I would actually *like* an online Fallout RPG (rather RTPG -Real time Player Game) IF the game were perfect in essence and perfect people within it. But that doesn't happen, it never WILL happen. The one way possible would be to have sentient computers acting as the people within the game but by that time, there'll be a REAL fallout.

You are speaking from impulsiveness, not from your mind. THINK about it. FOOL is a foolish idea.

Think about your comment on turn-based combat. No it would not work. If you put even 20 people on a "list" the game would crawl. Think about the normal 1000+ people on a list waiting their turn? What if one guy decides to have lunch during his turn? Then everyone has to wait.

I know you're thinking, as so many before you, "well then, we'll just give each person only 5 seconds to decide what to do." Think about only 1 second, too little time to do anything, but think about how long a combat turn would take if it were just 1 second? 1000 seconds, i.e. 16 and a half minutes EACH combat turn. Even one MILLISECOND per combat turn would be aggrivating, that would be 1 second per combat turn. What if you had to wait for everyone's battle to conviene? That could go on forever. The only way would be to make it real time which sucks.

-Xotor-

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RE: Real people...

FOOL would never work. The only thing that might work is multiplayer with a small group of people and a designated gamemaster like Vampire: The Maquerade has.
 
RE: Real people...

Like I said before go play a perfectly good online game like Baldur's Gate. Don't have fallout become a damn online game. It wasn't meant to be and it will never happen.
 
RE: Real people...

I am just as anti-FOOL as I can get, but get this, if Fo3 would have an online OPTION, I wouldn't have to use it. Now, would I? (and I won't either, just in case)
 
RE: Real people...

There is no storyline, you're right about that, but the two time-systems can co-exist. By having combatitants go into an isolated environment that looks like the town, you can have turnbased. But, how will the computer identify which people are to be put in combat? You would have to registre as friend, neutral or foe for some person, and range would be a criteria.

And you're also right about people not wanting to play background roles. I think dr. Frog (is that really the name?) means that people wouldn't have the option to go into the online environment (perhaps one town in the centre of the map, like the Hub, or New Reno) as chosen one but in another character (still same name and stats however) to trade with others (wich might be more difficult than trading with NPC's) and conversation (pretty much like a chatbox or message board), wich would be a pretty easy way of finding out about locations and secrets. It would indeed take the roleplaying away.
 
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