Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2: Weapons Redone v2.3
- Thread starter Magnus
- Start date
You're welcome! It *is* a fantastic game, and I want to make it the best it can be by improving the feel of the combat without changing it too much. I think I've mostly succeeded, but there's always things that can be done better.
You can start your game with the current version of F2WR right now and install the new version when it comes out. It will work fine on existing savegames.
I'm in the middle of a playthrough right now, and there aren't that many things that need changing. Mostly just the ideas I've described in earlier posts, like the ammo issue... god help you if a New Reno mobster lands a crit on you with his Tommy Gun. Some comments below:
It's weird that the huge, Wanamingo-stopping 14mmAP pistol only requires a Strength of 4 to wield compared to the smaller .223 pistol which requires 5. It's even weirder that the Desert Eagle only requires ST 3. However, for a ST4 character the 14mmAP pistol will be their best weapon until they find a Gauss pistol or get good with energy weapons, and I don't want to take that away from them. The Desert Eagle is also one of the few weapons Lenny can handle. So I won't change this.
Having a damage mod on 4.7mm Caseless makes no sense when all the weapons that use it have no alternate ammo. I'll be removing this damage mod, and adjusting up all those weapons' damage accordingly. This means it'll be easier to judge how much damage they do by looking at the inventory screen.
If I make the shovel do double damage against Spore Plants, I might as well, for the heck of it, make the Wrench do double damage against robots and turrets. It still won't be better than other melee weapons you'll have access to by then, but if you're really crazy you can use it to roleplay a post-apocalyptic combat mechanic.
I'll probably also include the Vault 15 fix from my signature. That one really is a must have.
For a long time I've toyed with the idea of making Big Guns and Energy Weapons accessible earlier in the game. For EW I have the following idea: The Enclave corpse in Klamath will have a (worthless) Disarmed Laser Pistol item on it, which you must have a decent EW or high Science skill to arm. Once you do, it will disappear and drop a regular Laser Pistol in your inventory.
For Big Guns I'm thinking Smitty in the Den could have a Salvaged Flamer for sale, with a decent Big Guns or high Repair requirement to turn into a regular Flamer. He'd have to sell fuel for it too, and Energy ammo.
These ideas are probably outside the scope of what I'll do in this mod, but maybe I'll do something with them in the future.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Is the .223 'smaller' than the 14mm pistol though?
Artwise its just Deckards gun, but the .223 is a cut down 5.56 rifle in lore.
14mm handgun rounds (possibly subcaliber) might not be as powerful as a massively too short 5.56 rifle.
Artwise its just Deckards gun, but the .223 is a cut down 5.56 rifle in lore.
14mm handgun rounds (possibly subcaliber) might not be as powerful as a massively too short 5.56 rifle.
I say they are. I visualize the 14mmAP rounds as anti-material "tank openers", hence their increased weight and armor penetration, and why the Bozar uses them. Putting them in a handgun is only possible because this is a videogame, and I wish I could make that handgun have the ST req to match that, but as I said, that would make things very hard for ST<5 chars.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Whoaaaaaaaa wait a minute.
In the original game, 14mm AP is a HANDGUN cartridge, which NV shows us that the same weapon (12.7mm pistol) fires presumably a smaller version of the round.
Its not a 14.5mm anti materiel round at all.
IMO changing Bozar to use 14mm AP is more or less a compromise if modder doesn't want to make/add a new type of ammo in the game but still want to keep Bozar from getting its ammo too easily.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
A compromise, sure, but it's silly to go 'I made a giant rifle use X ammo, ergo the handgun must be MONSTROUS'.
I took a quick look at this mod. Overall it feels much more balanced than the economy balance mod. Does ths one include barter changes as well like the economy rebalance mod?
Are you supposed to use the default FO2 damage formulae in ddraw.ini btw?
Some thoughts :
-The installer cant seem to detect the latest version of sfall and thinks its out of date, so it wants to install 3.6 over the newer version of sfall instead.
-Theres a mod that changes grenades so that they are unaffected by enemy AC since grenades are being thrown at the ground. I think thats a better solution than giving grenades weapon accurate...the two of them combined are definately overkill. With only 60% throwing skill and no weapon accurate perks, it is still very easy to get a high hit % with grenades.
-Not sure why you made JHP do a high damage multiplier + add lots of DR. Was it so that targets with high DR would eventually take 0 damage from JHP? It just makes it hard to calculate the expected damage from using JHP due to the damage multiplier.
-Was it really necessary to buff the hunting rifle? I think it was pretty balanced as it is. It now averages 15 damage, negates leather DR, has a half range penalty AND a -10% AC mod on top of it. It basically never misses and hits very hard for early game when you are only wearing leather.
-The 14mm pistol is extremely OP for how early it shows up. It averages 18 damage, has a +20% chance to hit, the ammo has a -30% AC modifier and negates power armor DR. The combination of never missing + near full damage makes it an uber hunting rifle, and it starts showing up around vault city/gecko IIRC.
-.44 magnum JHP has a 46% DR modifier instead of 47%, is that a typo?
-Shotguns are extremely underwhelming. The pancor jackhammer shows up around broken hills->NCR, but only averages 23 damage per shot...against wild dogs with 20% DR, it does roughly the same amount of damage as a 14mm pistol, except the 14mm pistol is much better against metal armor of better DR. Even assault rifles with JHP rounds would average 13 damage against wild dogs, with the advantage of being able to switch to AP rounds.
-The FN FAL is rendered obsolete by assault rifles with AP ammo. The 7.62mm round is basically a weaker version of the 5mm AP round and they do nearly the same amount of damage.
-G11Es doing a 7 round burst with a 50 round magazine seems kind of...odd. Grease gun doing an 8 round burst with a 30 round magazine also feels odd.
-The red ryder LE BB gun seems pretty underpowered now. By the time you can get it, there are much better weapons that are at 5 action points. Similarly, sniper rifles are pretty underwhelming at 6 AP per shot.
-The .44 magnum revolver is IMHO superior to the desert eagle...the 1 less AP to fire it makes a massive difference. With 10 APs, you can fire twice and reload, rendering the lower ammo capacity moot. The extra range is also largely a non-factor.
-Im confused as to why the HN Needler AP ammo is superior to the regular needler AP ammo and what the role of the needler pistol is now...its got this weird "enhanced knockout" perk instead of weapon penetrate. Its stilll a very rare gun and has one of the rarest ammo types, but its much worse than earlier guns.
-All the -AC modifiers on AP ammo, while making sense, makes AC even less important than before. It allows players to get away with a lot fewer points in weapon skills.
-Laser rifles averaging 45 damage per shot are overkill given the lower laser resistances IMHO.
-Pulse rifles/guns do far too much damage IMHO. They have the best damage type as it is, their damage should be toned down since they can kill most late game enemies in 1-2 hits.
Are you supposed to use the default FO2 damage formulae in ddraw.ini btw?
Some thoughts :
-The installer cant seem to detect the latest version of sfall and thinks its out of date, so it wants to install 3.6 over the newer version of sfall instead.
-Theres a mod that changes grenades so that they are unaffected by enemy AC since grenades are being thrown at the ground. I think thats a better solution than giving grenades weapon accurate...the two of them combined are definately overkill. With only 60% throwing skill and no weapon accurate perks, it is still very easy to get a high hit % with grenades.
-Not sure why you made JHP do a high damage multiplier + add lots of DR. Was it so that targets with high DR would eventually take 0 damage from JHP? It just makes it hard to calculate the expected damage from using JHP due to the damage multiplier.
-Was it really necessary to buff the hunting rifle? I think it was pretty balanced as it is. It now averages 15 damage, negates leather DR, has a half range penalty AND a -10% AC mod on top of it. It basically never misses and hits very hard for early game when you are only wearing leather.
-The 14mm pistol is extremely OP for how early it shows up. It averages 18 damage, has a +20% chance to hit, the ammo has a -30% AC modifier and negates power armor DR. The combination of never missing + near full damage makes it an uber hunting rifle, and it starts showing up around vault city/gecko IIRC.
-.44 magnum JHP has a 46% DR modifier instead of 47%, is that a typo?
-Shotguns are extremely underwhelming. The pancor jackhammer shows up around broken hills->NCR, but only averages 23 damage per shot...against wild dogs with 20% DR, it does roughly the same amount of damage as a 14mm pistol, except the 14mm pistol is much better against metal armor of better DR. Even assault rifles with JHP rounds would average 13 damage against wild dogs, with the advantage of being able to switch to AP rounds.
-The FN FAL is rendered obsolete by assault rifles with AP ammo. The 7.62mm round is basically a weaker version of the 5mm AP round and they do nearly the same amount of damage.
-G11Es doing a 7 round burst with a 50 round magazine seems kind of...odd. Grease gun doing an 8 round burst with a 30 round magazine also feels odd.
-The red ryder LE BB gun seems pretty underpowered now. By the time you can get it, there are much better weapons that are at 5 action points. Similarly, sniper rifles are pretty underwhelming at 6 AP per shot.
-The .44 magnum revolver is IMHO superior to the desert eagle...the 1 less AP to fire it makes a massive difference. With 10 APs, you can fire twice and reload, rendering the lower ammo capacity moot. The extra range is also largely a non-factor.
-Im confused as to why the HN Needler AP ammo is superior to the regular needler AP ammo and what the role of the needler pistol is now...its got this weird "enhanced knockout" perk instead of weapon penetrate. Its stilll a very rare gun and has one of the rarest ammo types, but its much worse than earlier guns.
-All the -AC modifiers on AP ammo, while making sense, makes AC even less important than before. It allows players to get away with a lot fewer points in weapon skills.
-Laser rifles averaging 45 damage per shot are overkill given the lower laser resistances IMHO.
-Pulse rifles/guns do far too much damage IMHO. They have the best damage type as it is, their damage should be toned down since they can kill most late game enemies in 1-2 hits.
You MUST use the default damage formula, the installer will force the relevant variable to 0 in your ddraw.ini. You will get big trouble if you don't.
The installer should detect newer versions of sfall and recommend updating the ddraw.ini, but not the dll. Option 2 I believe that is. Read the messages it gives you carefully.
I understand the readme can be a bit confusing, but it does say what the deal with the Needler pistol is - It's been changed to a Taser that does electric damage and knocks people out on crits (that's what the weird perk is for). The "AP" ammo is just simply a better version of the normal one, because it's hard to find.
Reducing AC bonuses for most ammo is something I've thought of as well, it's on the table for the next version.
A rule of thumb for JHP is:
Unarmored - insane damage
Leather jacket - big damage
Leather armor - same as listed on weapon
Metal - half damage
Combat and above - Useless
It's true that most humanoid enemies are in Leather, which would make JHP seem ubiquitous, but Wanamingos, Super Mutants, Deathclaws, Floaters and Centaurs all have stats equal to Combat armor or better, and they shake off JHP bullets like danduff.
The Hunting rifle WAS pretty balanced, but with all the other changes in the mod the default stats made it a little underwhelming. It does NOT ignore Leather armor, since Leather armor has DT and nothing can reduce that. I've also reduced its max range, and I believe it no longer has the Ranged perk.
The FN FAL fires more bullets per burst than the AR, has longer range and does more damage per shot. It's Cassidy's best friend, since you know he will always be effective with it, whereas with the AR you have to change his ammo for him, and that is a pain.
Shotguns do reliable damage to everything, due to their high single shot damage which makes DT less of an issue. They're also used by a lot of enemies, so I can't change them too much. I've increased their bullets per burst and lowered their weight, but practice has shown me that they are quite deadly and don't need much of a boost. Try prank calling the Enclave in Gecko with the RP installed, wait for the vertibird encounter and tell me how it goes when you piss them off... In any case, the Pancor is a fine weapon for Vic, but you'll have to buy it or somehow manage to beat an NCR or Enclave patrol. They are not found in Broken Hills anymore.
The mod contains no changes to the Barter formula, but several weapons have had their prices reduced, so now you have to sell 3 of them instead of 1 in order to get rich, and that adds up to a much healthier economy. The weapon swaps also help with this - the valuable .223 pistol is now unique, and if you want a Bozar you have to buy it instead of picking it up in the Toxic Caves. Finally, the FN FAL HPFA is now so insanely powerful that you'll really want to buy one for yourself.
Having some weapons be objectively better (or worse) than others in the same tier is perfectly fine. You can always give them to NPCs, or you might have a crazy build that allows you to take leverage of them.
The Sawed-Off shotgun for instance, is a lackluster weapon by the time you find it, but it's a great gun for Lenny due to the low ST req and hit bonus. If your character has ST4 (say, you took the One-Handed trait and know you will specialize in pistols, so you prefer that stat point in AG or IN) it's also great for *you*, since you can't use the Magnum.
The 14mmAP pistol seems OP on paper (you can get one as early as the Den if you waste the Brotherhood guy), but in practice nearly all enemies are wearing Leather armor, so it ends up doing the same damage as the .44 Magnum loaded with JHP, and much, much less than an Assault rifle burst, although it is very accurate. However, if you have the Finesse trait it is an awesome weapon since that trait makes JHP do almost no damage, but AP ammo still works. In the Wanamingo caves, it rocks. It is also a more reliable upgrade for Sulik's 10mmSMG when you get tired of scraping Vic off the wall.
Finally, the Laser rifle. What about it? You won't find one until the Military Base, (unless you somehow survive a freak encounter with Remnants of the Master's Army, but you won't), and that's a point in the game where you start facing enemies that can waste your whole party in a few rounds, so the damage it brings is really needed. It's a great weapon for rookie Energy Weapon users since it only requires ST5 and is so accurate, but it does *nothing* against turrets, robots and Enclave patrols - and the Turbo Plasma Rifle does much more damage, has better overall armor penetration and costs the same AP. So, if you've Tagged Energy weapons or dumped enough skillpoints into it that you feel confident handling the Plasma Rifle you'll probably go straight to the SAD and pick up one of those instead.
The installer should detect newer versions of sfall and recommend updating the ddraw.ini, but not the dll. Option 2 I believe that is. Read the messages it gives you carefully.
I understand the readme can be a bit confusing, but it does say what the deal with the Needler pistol is - It's been changed to a Taser that does electric damage and knocks people out on crits (that's what the weird perk is for). The "AP" ammo is just simply a better version of the normal one, because it's hard to find.
Reducing AC bonuses for most ammo is something I've thought of as well, it's on the table for the next version.
A rule of thumb for JHP is:
Unarmored - insane damage
Leather jacket - big damage
Leather armor - same as listed on weapon
Metal - half damage
Combat and above - Useless
It's true that most humanoid enemies are in Leather, which would make JHP seem ubiquitous, but Wanamingos, Super Mutants, Deathclaws, Floaters and Centaurs all have stats equal to Combat armor or better, and they shake off JHP bullets like danduff.
The Hunting rifle WAS pretty balanced, but with all the other changes in the mod the default stats made it a little underwhelming. It does NOT ignore Leather armor, since Leather armor has DT and nothing can reduce that. I've also reduced its max range, and I believe it no longer has the Ranged perk.
The FN FAL fires more bullets per burst than the AR, has longer range and does more damage per shot. It's Cassidy's best friend, since you know he will always be effective with it, whereas with the AR you have to change his ammo for him, and that is a pain.
Shotguns do reliable damage to everything, due to their high single shot damage which makes DT less of an issue. They're also used by a lot of enemies, so I can't change them too much. I've increased their bullets per burst and lowered their weight, but practice has shown me that they are quite deadly and don't need much of a boost. Try prank calling the Enclave in Gecko with the RP installed, wait for the vertibird encounter and tell me how it goes when you piss them off... In any case, the Pancor is a fine weapon for Vic, but you'll have to buy it or somehow manage to beat an NCR or Enclave patrol. They are not found in Broken Hills anymore.
The mod contains no changes to the Barter formula, but several weapons have had their prices reduced, so now you have to sell 3 of them instead of 1 in order to get rich, and that adds up to a much healthier economy. The weapon swaps also help with this - the valuable .223 pistol is now unique, and if you want a Bozar you have to buy it instead of picking it up in the Toxic Caves. Finally, the FN FAL HPFA is now so insanely powerful that you'll really want to buy one for yourself.
Having some weapons be objectively better (or worse) than others in the same tier is perfectly fine. You can always give them to NPCs, or you might have a crazy build that allows you to take leverage of them.
The Sawed-Off shotgun for instance, is a lackluster weapon by the time you find it, but it's a great gun for Lenny due to the low ST req and hit bonus. If your character has ST4 (say, you took the One-Handed trait and know you will specialize in pistols, so you prefer that stat point in AG or IN) it's also great for *you*, since you can't use the Magnum.
The 14mmAP pistol seems OP on paper (you can get one as early as the Den if you waste the Brotherhood guy), but in practice nearly all enemies are wearing Leather armor, so it ends up doing the same damage as the .44 Magnum loaded with JHP, and much, much less than an Assault rifle burst, although it is very accurate. However, if you have the Finesse trait it is an awesome weapon since that trait makes JHP do almost no damage, but AP ammo still works. In the Wanamingo caves, it rocks. It is also a more reliable upgrade for Sulik's 10mmSMG when you get tired of scraping Vic off the wall.
Finally, the Laser rifle. What about it? You won't find one until the Military Base, (unless you somehow survive a freak encounter with Remnants of the Master's Army, but you won't), and that's a point in the game where you start facing enemies that can waste your whole party in a few rounds, so the damage it brings is really needed. It's a great weapon for rookie Energy Weapon users since it only requires ST5 and is so accurate, but it does *nothing* against turrets, robots and Enclave patrols - and the Turbo Plasma Rifle does much more damage, has better overall armor penetration and costs the same AP. So, if you've Tagged Energy weapons or dumped enough skillpoints into it that you feel confident handling the Plasma Rifle you'll probably go straight to the SAD and pick up one of those instead.
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When I said it negates leather armor, i meant the 20% DR which is the biggest effect. Averaging 15 damage per shot, the hunting rifle drops to 13 damage per shot vs leather armor, which is the best the player will have when enemies with hunting rifles show up. Thats still a bit too high IMHO. DT mainly affects low damage, high fire rate weapons, while DR mainly affects high damage per shot weapons. The hunting rifle does still have the long range perk.
Not sure how the formulae works though, is DT subtracted before or after the damage modifier? It seems to be before, which makes it pretty ineffective. 10mm pistols with JHP is very effective against tyler's gang which seems weird. It was doing about 10 damage per shot to them which seems far too high. I ran the maths and it should be averaging about 6 damage per hit, assuming DT is subtracted after the damage modifier.
Im confused about the taser thing, because the graphic, descriptions and name of the needler pistol is still unchanged. Why not rename it as Taser or something?
You mentioned that the long range perk was giving a PE dependant bonus to hit? How does that work? The wiki only says it reduces the range penalty by half and doesnt mention anything about giving it a bonus to hit directly.
Not sure how the formulae works though, is DT subtracted before or after the damage modifier? It seems to be before, which makes it pretty ineffective. 10mm pistols with JHP is very effective against tyler's gang which seems weird. It was doing about 10 damage per shot to them which seems far too high. I ran the maths and it should be averaging about 6 damage per hit, assuming DT is subtracted after the damage modifier.
Im confused about the taser thing, because the graphic, descriptions and name of the needler pistol is still unchanged. Why not rename it as Taser or something?
You mentioned that the long range perk was giving a PE dependant bonus to hit? How does that work? The wiki only says it reduces the range penalty by half and doesnt mention anything about giving it a bonus to hit directly.
Thanks, if im reading it correctly...
-There are 3 levels of light penalties...what level of light do you get if you have night vision?
-I dont see anything in the code that explains how much % one hex is worth, distance wise.
Code:
if (dist >= 0) { if (attacker_eye_damage) dist*=-12; else dist*=-4;}
else dist*=-4;At this point with 8 perception and a normal weapon, i got dist = 48.
Code:
if (!(attack_with_norange_argument && (dist<=0))) tohit+=dist;Im not sure what this part is...if im reading it correctly, it means that for ranged weapons, at a distance of 0, you get a to hit bonus = "dist" which means 48 in this scenario. That is massive. With just 100% guns you can easily max out hit % at point blank range.
Code:
if (-2*perception > dist) dist = -2*perception;This part seems to cap the bonus from weapon long range to -2*perception, or -16 with 8 perception.
So with the bonus from weapon long range, the bonus to hit at distance 0 would be 64.
But what is the distance modifier per hex beyond 0? That's the important part.
Edit : Also apparently the AI is not affected by light levels?
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Okay, did some more testing. JHP does do slightly more than half of the base damage vs metal armor. The problem is one of progression...enemies with metal armor and up (stats wise) mainly show up late game. While 10mm AP would be better...the only people who would be using 10mm ap late game would probably be finess characters with a p90c since thats the best one handed burst weapon they can get hold of.
The player gets the 10mm pistol in klamath and gets 10mm smgs, desert eagles/magnum revolvers and hunting rifles around the den. The only reason to use 10mm AP at this stage is for the fight with Tyler's gang, but the player probably doesn't have any at this point. No reason whatsoever to use .44 FMJ at this point as JHP is strictly better.
With the hunting rifle, I think the main problem is the long range perk because that makes it insanely accurate even with a low guns skill. With 77% guns i can get 95% accuracy shooting off screen vs radscorpions. Other than that, it does mediocre damage because JHP is strictly better vs all enemies at this point. The magnum revolver just completely blows its competition out of the water at this stage of the game, being able to fire twice in one turn is a massive difference, and the low ammo capacity isnt a big problem really. Because of that, there is no reason whatsoever to upgrade the desert eagle, a 12 round capacity is overkill.
Early guns having their damage buffed is problematic...i think most of the early guns are pretty balanced. 10mm pistols going from 5-12 damage to 7-13 does too much damage against early enemies with the JHP change...it is extremely easy to kill melee enemies before they can hurt you. The desert eagle/magnum revolver with JHP rounds just turns the early game into a complete cakewalk because of how much damage you are doing.
I think it would work out better if their damage was changed back to the default values. I am still doing way more damage with the JHP modifiers than in the base game. I think weapon long range should be moved to the scoped hunting rifle, but that makes the normal hunting rifle rather mediocre at this stage.
Maybe a way to make DT more relevant vs JHP would be to have DT be subtracted before the damage multiplier is applied, is there a way to do that?
Im not sure if this was a change you did, but i took the caravan to new reno and ran into some bootleggers. They have no armor, average 50 hp or so, but have late game weapons like super sledges, pancor jackhammers and powerfists. Getting these late game weapons so early in the game breaks progression. They shouldnt be so easy to acquire just by killing some easy enemies.
The player gets the 10mm pistol in klamath and gets 10mm smgs, desert eagles/magnum revolvers and hunting rifles around the den. The only reason to use 10mm AP at this stage is for the fight with Tyler's gang, but the player probably doesn't have any at this point. No reason whatsoever to use .44 FMJ at this point as JHP is strictly better.
With the hunting rifle, I think the main problem is the long range perk because that makes it insanely accurate even with a low guns skill. With 77% guns i can get 95% accuracy shooting off screen vs radscorpions. Other than that, it does mediocre damage because JHP is strictly better vs all enemies at this point. The magnum revolver just completely blows its competition out of the water at this stage of the game, being able to fire twice in one turn is a massive difference, and the low ammo capacity isnt a big problem really. Because of that, there is no reason whatsoever to upgrade the desert eagle, a 12 round capacity is overkill.
Early guns having their damage buffed is problematic...i think most of the early guns are pretty balanced. 10mm pistols going from 5-12 damage to 7-13 does too much damage against early enemies with the JHP change...it is extremely easy to kill melee enemies before they can hurt you. The desert eagle/magnum revolver with JHP rounds just turns the early game into a complete cakewalk because of how much damage you are doing.
I think it would work out better if their damage was changed back to the default values. I am still doing way more damage with the JHP modifiers than in the base game. I think weapon long range should be moved to the scoped hunting rifle, but that makes the normal hunting rifle rather mediocre at this stage.
Maybe a way to make DT more relevant vs JHP would be to have DT be subtracted before the damage multiplier is applied, is there a way to do that?
Im not sure if this was a change you did, but i took the caravan to new reno and ran into some bootleggers. They have no armor, average 50 hp or so, but have late game weapons like super sledges, pancor jackhammers and powerfists. Getting these late game weapons so early in the game breaks progression. They shouldnt be so easy to acquire just by killing some easy enemies.
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I haven't changed caravan encounters at all, because I wasn't familiar with them at that point and the way they're coded isn't exactly intuitive. I agree they shouldn't be that well armed at that point in the game, what you're describing sounds more like a San Fran encounter. Where did you take the caravan from?
The hunting rifle is not too powerful. Do me a favor, get a 10mm SMG, burst it at one of the Slavers in the Den and tell me how much damage you do. Or fire the Magnum at him twice and tell me the damage you do. It's going to be more than the Hunting Rifle, even though those weapons cost less to buy. The only time the H. R is too powerful is if you're running a Finesse character with 10AG, but then you might as well use the Magnum with FMJ instead since that's even more powerful, and in the next town you're picking up a 14mmAP pistol or Assault Rifle anyway. What the Hunting Rifle is, is Vic's first weapon. It never misses, and allows him to do reliable damage every round (the Magnum lets him do more damage but you probably want it yourself, and he misses a lot with it).
And you're saying that "it is extremely easy to kill melee enemies before they can hurt you". Well, that's just becase you were smart enough to bring a GUN to a KNIFE fight. Congratulations, you have a tactical sense. I don't want to play a game where a gunshot is something you can shrug off, guns should HURT.
That's not saying guns are the only way to go, try giving Sulik a Sharpened Spear and he'll do even more damage than the Hunting Rifle (or specialize in melee and do it yourself), but in the early game you're fighting rats, geckos and drunk thugs. If you have a gun, that SHOULD be a cakewalk.
I took the redding->new reno caravan. Bootleggers had super sledges, power fists and pancor jackhammers. I thinnk they were bootleggers at least, they were unarmored. Maybe some of your random encounter changes affected caravan encounters too?
Some of your random encounter changes have bugs...you gave san francisco mercenaries FN FALs, XL70e3s and plasma grenades. Unfortunately they cant use them because they dont have the animation frames for them. The leather jacket thug with blue jeans cant use rifle animations and the female marauder with metal armor (same as the ones that spawn in marauder encounters around the NCR) only have knife/spear animation frames IIRC.
Another bugged encounter ,"bootleggers" near redding. The females with yellow blouses (same as Maida Buckner) have 14mm pistols and grease guns, but no animations so cant use them. Black male with red shirt has a sawed off shotgun, but no pistol animation so cant use it.
I think you made an unintended change with the 9mm mauser -> .223 pistol switch. Trader Willy north of modoc, in the "a trader with guards" encounter has guards with .223 pistols now, which are too powerful at this stage of the game when you just reached Modoc. Its not unique either since you can get an infinite supply by constantly killing his guards everytime you get the encounter.
In my last post i agreed that the hunting rifle doesnt do too much damage, the issue is more that it is nearly impossible to miss with it since you can easily shoot off screen with a low guns skill, but that might be an issue with how powerful the long range perk is. There is basically no reason to use anything other than JHP in the early game because of how much damage it does. Burst weapon balance is very problematic due to the way it is balanced...it is basically a instant win button vs melee enemies and even the oil rig is a cake walk if you just stand behind a corner with a burst weapon. The enclave soldiers will run around the corner like lemmings and die in one burst volley. Im focusing on single shot balance atm.
I had issues with Vic missing with a desert eagle as well, but I gave him the free shotgun in redding and that problem got solved.
Sure, guns > melee realistically, the problem is one of balance. I walked into a cave full of lesser/immature deathclaws at a low level and easily gunned them down with shotguns and a magnum revolver. All the encounters vs melee enemies are so easy now, and they werent exactly hard to begin with. Sulik does do a lot of damage, but he has the advantage of having way higher hp, better armor and stimpacks.
Some of your random encounter changes have bugs...you gave san francisco mercenaries FN FALs, XL70e3s and plasma grenades. Unfortunately they cant use them because they dont have the animation frames for them. The leather jacket thug with blue jeans cant use rifle animations and the female marauder with metal armor (same as the ones that spawn in marauder encounters around the NCR) only have knife/spear animation frames IIRC.
Another bugged encounter ,"bootleggers" near redding. The females with yellow blouses (same as Maida Buckner) have 14mm pistols and grease guns, but no animations so cant use them. Black male with red shirt has a sawed off shotgun, but no pistol animation so cant use it.
I think you made an unintended change with the 9mm mauser -> .223 pistol switch. Trader Willy north of modoc, in the "a trader with guards" encounter has guards with .223 pistols now, which are too powerful at this stage of the game when you just reached Modoc. Its not unique either since you can get an infinite supply by constantly killing his guards everytime you get the encounter.
In my last post i agreed that the hunting rifle doesnt do too much damage, the issue is more that it is nearly impossible to miss with it since you can easily shoot off screen with a low guns skill, but that might be an issue with how powerful the long range perk is. There is basically no reason to use anything other than JHP in the early game because of how much damage it does. Burst weapon balance is very problematic due to the way it is balanced...it is basically a instant win button vs melee enemies and even the oil rig is a cake walk if you just stand behind a corner with a burst weapon. The enclave soldiers will run around the corner like lemmings and die in one burst volley. Im focusing on single shot balance atm.
I had issues with Vic missing with a desert eagle as well, but I gave him the free shotgun in redding and that problem got solved.
Sure, guns > melee realistically, the problem is one of balance. I walked into a cave full of lesser/immature deathclaws at a low level and easily gunned them down with shotguns and a magnum revolver. All the encounters vs melee enemies are so easy now, and they werent exactly hard to begin with. Sulik does do a lot of damage, but he has the advantage of having way higher hp, better armor and stimpacks.
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If you really want to go out of your way to break your game and get endless money by exploiting metagame knowledge and farming that Trader Willy encounter - go ahead. That's no problem. The problem used to be that you could do it in New Reno by letting mobsters kill gang members for you, and New Reno is a place you'll visit often, so that would probably happen whether you wanted to or not. You can still do that of course, but the Mauser sells for less than half of the .223's price, so looting those corpses doesn't force you to break the economy anymore. The change also lets the .223 pistol be unique as the description says, barring the one aforementioned silly encounter.
The reason why JHP is so good is that nearly all enemies are in Leather armor. I can't change that. However, the new damage mod + DR means JHP is now actually useless against the few critters that do have armor (Wanamingos, Super Mutants, Deathclaws and the occasional Combat Armor enemy), so that's when you want to bring out the AP ammo. AP ammo is not meant to be an equal to JHP, it's meant to be a situationally useful alternative when JHP fails.
One straightforward example is that you can now actually go straight from the Den to Redding. With a .44 Magnum with FMJ, 10mmSMG with AP and the 14mmAP pistol in the Sheriff's locker, you actually stand a chance against the Wanamingos, and killing them will let you level up enough to do jobs for the Sheriff. Try shooting them with JHP and you won't do much of anything unless you get lots of crits.
There's something very strange about the encounters you're describing, I made pretty dang sure all the changed critters had animations for the new weapons. And I remember the Maida critters, but I recall giving them scoped hunting rifles, not 14mm pistols or grease guns. Are you sure the mod installation went as it should? Did you tell the installer you had the RP when you actually didn't? Or did you install the RP after F2WR?
Actually, could you send me your worldmap.txt in a PM?
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The .223 pistol thing isnt about money...its about getting access to one of the best pistols in the game at modoc. Its a progression issue, it becomes available too early. You also said that you wanted to make it unique, but its obviously not unique if you can farm multiple copies of it and have multiple party members with .223 pistols in the early game. Why not just edit the willy encounter so that they still have 9mm mausers?
The JHP issue is basically two fold :
1. It makes the early game too easy since you do too more damage in certain encounters.
2. There is no reason to use certain AP rounds since the guns using them become obsolete by the time you run into enemies that actually require AP rounds. .44 FMJ is a good example, you wont be needing them at all because by the time you want to kill wanamingos, centaurs, floaters, etc, you will have much better weapons. You can rush wanamingos early on, but thats like rushing navarro to get the advanced power armor.
Im not sure what would be a good solution to the JHP issue. Possibly reducing the damage bonus vs leather armor and below.
Im looking in your randomencounters.txt file :
[Encounter: RED_Bootlegger]
type_00=pid:16777450, Item:6(wielded), Item
2-7)159, Item0-20)41, Script:1116 ; Magnus: Bootlegger male w/ Super Sledgehammer, and tons of molotovs
type_02=ratio:25%, pid:16777450, Item:385(wielded), Item1-2)159, Item0-20)41, Script:505 ; Magnus: Bootlegger male w/ Sawed-Off and molotovs, NOT Pancor Jackhammer
Male bootleggers dont have pistol animations so cant use the sawed off.
Some of the weird encounters arent from your mod though. Im looking at the RP's worldmap.txt and this is the bootlegger part :
[Encounter: RED_Bootlegger]
type_00=pid:16777450, Item:6(wielded), Item0-20)41, Script:1116 ; Bootlegger male w/ Super Sledgehammer
type_01=ratio:25%, pid:16777450, Item:6(wielded), Item0-20)41, Script:505 ; Bootlegger male w/ Sledgehammer
type_02=ratio:25%, pid:16777450, Item:354(wielded), Item0-20)41, Script:505 ; Bootlegger male w/ Pancor Jackhammer
type_03=ratio:25%, pid:16777451, Item:332(wielded), Item0-20)41, Script:505 ; Bootlegger female w/ Grease Gun
type_04=ratio:25%, pid:16777451, Item:22(wielded), Item0-20)41, Script:505 ; Bootlegger female w/ 14mm
type_05=pid:33555432, Distance:14, If (Rand(10%)) ; Still
position=huddle, spacing:2
Im very confused as to why the RP would have this. I doubt this was part of the unmodded game. I dont recall seeing bootleggers with super sledge hammers in the unmodded game either.
And these are the san francisco mercenaries :
[Encounter: FRAN_Mercenaries]
type_01=ratio:25%, pid:16777470, Item:353(wielded), Item0-50)41, Script:486 ; Magnus: Mercenary male w/ XL70E3
type_02=ratio:25%, pid:16777471, Item8-16)26(wielded), Item0-50)41, Script:486 ; Magnus: Merceneary female w/ many, many Plasma Grenades
ADDtype_04=pid:16777470, Item:500(wielded), Item0-50)41, Script:486, If(Rand(30%)) ; Magnus: Merceneary male w/ FN FAL HPFA
The male mercs dont have rifle animations, the female mercs dont have grenade animations.
Edit : According to http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/WORLDMAP.TXT, the base game does have that weird bootlegger encounter with supersledge, grease gun and 14mm. I guess the devs just goofed on that one.
The JHP issue is basically two fold :
1. It makes the early game too easy since you do too more damage in certain encounters.
2. There is no reason to use certain AP rounds since the guns using them become obsolete by the time you run into enemies that actually require AP rounds. .44 FMJ is a good example, you wont be needing them at all because by the time you want to kill wanamingos, centaurs, floaters, etc, you will have much better weapons. You can rush wanamingos early on, but thats like rushing navarro to get the advanced power armor.
Im not sure what would be a good solution to the JHP issue. Possibly reducing the damage bonus vs leather armor and below.
Im looking in your randomencounters.txt file :
[Encounter: RED_Bootlegger]
type_00=pid:16777450, Item:6(wielded), Item
2-7)159, Item0-20)41, Script:1116 ; Magnus: Bootlegger male w/ Super Sledgehammer, and tons of molotovstype_02=ratio:25%, pid:16777450, Item:385(wielded), Item
1-2)159, Item0-20)41, Script:505 ; Magnus: Bootlegger male w/ Sawed-Off and molotovs, NOT Pancor JackhammerMale bootleggers dont have pistol animations so cant use the sawed off.
Some of the weird encounters arent from your mod though. Im looking at the RP's worldmap.txt and this is the bootlegger part :
[Encounter: RED_Bootlegger]
type_00=pid:16777450, Item:6(wielded), Item
0-20)41, Script:1116 ; Bootlegger male w/ Super Sledgehammertype_01=ratio:25%, pid:16777450, Item:6(wielded), Item
0-20)41, Script:505 ; Bootlegger male w/ Sledgehammertype_02=ratio:25%, pid:16777450, Item:354(wielded), Item
0-20)41, Script:505 ; Bootlegger male w/ Pancor Jackhammertype_03=ratio:25%, pid:16777451, Item:332(wielded), Item
0-20)41, Script:505 ; Bootlegger female w/ Grease Guntype_04=ratio:25%, pid:16777451, Item:22(wielded), Item
0-20)41, Script:505 ; Bootlegger female w/ 14mmtype_05=pid:33555432, Distance:14, If (Rand(10%)) ; Still
position=huddle, spacing:2
Im very confused as to why the RP would have this. I doubt this was part of the unmodded game. I dont recall seeing bootleggers with super sledge hammers in the unmodded game either.
And these are the san francisco mercenaries :
[Encounter: FRAN_Mercenaries]
type_01=ratio:25%, pid:16777470, Item:353(wielded), Item
0-50)41, Script:486 ; Magnus: Mercenary male w/ XL70E3type_02=ratio:25%, pid:16777471, Item
8-16)26(wielded), Item0-50)41, Script:486 ; Magnus: Merceneary female w/ many, many Plasma GrenadesADDtype_04=pid:16777470, Item:500(wielded), Item
0-50)41, Script:486, If(Rand(30%)) ; Magnus: Merceneary male w/ FN FAL HPFAThe male mercs dont have rifle animations, the female mercs dont have grenade animations.
Edit : According to http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/WORLDMAP.TXT, the base game does have that weird bootlegger encounter with supersledge, grease gun and 14mm. I guess the devs just goofed on that one.
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[Encounter: RED_Homesteaders]
type_00=ratio:25%, pid:16777436, Item:8(wielded), Item0-20)41, Script:786 ; Homesteader male w/ 10MM Pistol
type_01=ratio:25%, pid:16777436, Item:160(wielded), Item0-20)41, Script:786 ; Homesteader male w/ Cattle Prod
type_02=ratio:25%, pid:16777437, Item:9(wielded), Item0-20)41, Script:787 ; Homesteader female w/ SMG
type_03=ratio:25%, pid:16777437, Item:22(wielded), Item0-20)41, Script:787 ; Magnus: Homesteader female with... what the fuck, H&K G11? Nope, Scoped Hunting Rifle.
type_04=pid:16777269, Script:788 ; Homesteader child - female
type_05=pid:16777268, Script:788 ; Homesteader child - male
position=huddle, spacing:2
The female homesteader cant equip the scoped hunting rifle, but can equip SMGs.
type_00=ratio:25%, pid:16777436, Item:8(wielded), Item
0-20)41, Script:786 ; Homesteader male w/ 10MM Pistoltype_01=ratio:25%, pid:16777436, Item:160(wielded), Item
0-20)41, Script:786 ; Homesteader male w/ Cattle Prodtype_02=ratio:25%, pid:16777437, Item:9(wielded), Item
0-20)41, Script:787 ; Homesteader female w/ SMGtype_03=ratio:25%, pid:16777437, Item:22(wielded), Item
0-20)41, Script:787 ; Magnus: Homesteader female with... what the fuck, H&K G11? Nope, Scoped Hunting Rifle.type_04=pid:16777269, Script:788 ; Homesteader child - female
type_05=pid:16777268, Script:788 ; Homesteader child - male
position=huddle, spacing:2
The female homesteader cant equip the scoped hunting rifle, but can equip SMGs.
This is bizarre, I was so sure I had gone over them and used only PIDs with the appropriate anims. I'll have to give them a once-over in the next version. Might as well fix that weird Bootlegger encounter while I'm at it.
Players won't encounter Willy unless they deliberately go see him, and even so there's no reason to kill his guards just so you can give Sulik a better weapon somewhat earlier. The .223 pistol is a good weapon, but it still can't compete with bursts from an assault rifle, which is straight up handed to you in Modoc. The change makes the game slightly easier for metagaming munchkins, but I don't care about those players. What's important is that the .223 pistol is now removed from all the common encounters around New Reno, so you will no longer find hundreds of it unless you deliberately farm it.
The early game is actually much more difficult with the JHP changes. Metzger's guards will wipe the floor with you (unless you lock their doors, you filthy cheater), and the Slaver Camp guys and Tyler's guards have Desert Eagles that smack you for roughly 12-20 damage in your Leather Armor. I want to encourage the player to come back later with a full party and better equipment, instead of trying to take them on as soon as they get there. Or at least, forcing them to use up their whole stack of drugs in order to win.
After the Den there's actually not much to fight until Vault 15, unless you go for the aforementioned route to New Reno via Redding. I don't consider that even remotely on par with a Navarro or San Fran rush, it's just a more combat-oriented route than Modoc-VC-Broken Hills. Before it wasn't really possible to do it, but now since I changed the Redding encounters to not use endgame weapons and the Wanamingos are susceptible to AP ammo, it's a valid option.
P.S:
Regarding an earlier question that I forgot: The Taser's description, and that of a few other items, is changed automatically by the F2WR installer program. Since all the item descriptions in the game are in just one single file, this is the only way to avoid breaking all mod compatibility.
Players won't encounter Willy unless they deliberately go see him, and even so there's no reason to kill his guards just so you can give Sulik a better weapon somewhat earlier. The .223 pistol is a good weapon, but it still can't compete with bursts from an assault rifle, which is straight up handed to you in Modoc. The change makes the game slightly easier for metagaming munchkins, but I don't care about those players. What's important is that the .223 pistol is now removed from all the common encounters around New Reno, so you will no longer find hundreds of it unless you deliberately farm it.
The early game is actually much more difficult with the JHP changes. Metzger's guards will wipe the floor with you (unless you lock their doors, you filthy cheater), and the Slaver Camp guys and Tyler's guards have Desert Eagles that smack you for roughly 12-20 damage in your Leather Armor. I want to encourage the player to come back later with a full party and better equipment, instead of trying to take them on as soon as they get there. Or at least, forcing them to use up their whole stack of drugs in order to win.
After the Den there's actually not much to fight until Vault 15, unless you go for the aforementioned route to New Reno via Redding. I don't consider that even remotely on par with a Navarro or San Fran rush, it's just a more combat-oriented route than Modoc-VC-Broken Hills. Before it wasn't really possible to do it, but now since I changed the Redding encounters to not use endgame weapons and the Wanamingos are susceptible to AP ammo, it's a valid option.
P.S:
Regarding an earlier question that I forgot: The Taser's description, and that of a few other items, is changed automatically by the F2WR installer program. Since all the item descriptions in the game are in just one single file, this is the only way to avoid breaking all mod compatibility.
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ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
Some suggestions.
Add an LMG version of G11 using this inventory sprite.
Make G11E have night vision perk from the FAL Night Vision, as it has a NV scope.
Add an LMG version of G11 using this inventory sprite.
Make G11E have night vision perk from the FAL Night Vision, as it has a NV scope.