Fallout discussion

Briosafreak

Briosafreak

Lived Through the Heat Death
Azael has made an interesting question on the BIS feedback boards that got an equally interesting answer from J.E. Sawyer, here is the question:
<blockquote>A quick question for all the people who say that that weapons, armor and technology in general must evolve, because people are using them: How exactly do you think that nuclear holocaust affects the infrastructure and industry needed to make technological leaps?</blockquote>
This is what Sawyer replied:
<blockquote> I think it depends on whether or not the infrastructure is prepared to deal with the nuclear holocaust. The 40s, 50s and 60s were decades of huge scientific advancement. There was a pretty clear distinction between producers and consumers; it was still an era of scientific heroism, where one man or a small group of men were responsible for huge breakthroughs that the common man or woman marveled at.
Suppose that the U.S. government is, in a naive but somewhat admirable way, preparing to attempt to use the producers to protect the consumers -- the everyday, common man, woman, and child. "Duck and cover" filmreels are aired, government agencies like the CDA give public displays, and the government assists private companies like Vault-Tec with the construction of vault bunkers. That's an awful lot of effort to put into protecting the people who only advance society with their money and mundane effort -- or so might some disgruntled government employees think.
Some members of the government would certainly know the score. In a nuclear holocaust, the majority of consumers are going to die either from the initial attacks or from lingering radiation/food shortages/etc. There's not enough money, resources, or room to put everyone in a vault. Why focus on saving the consumers when it's next to impossible to save them? Why focus on saving even a small number of them if they aren't going to be able to contribute much back into what remains of society?</blockquote>
And he continues with his theory , if you want to check the rest just head to this thread.
 
I would have to agree with Azael and say that this was a lot better response than I expected. It's good to know that whatever else he's doing to the game, he's at least giving a lot of thought to world itself, and not just superficially either.
 
I don't know about this...

I'm not necessarily sure I agree with all of what he says, though.

See, making things and building things is more than just 'being smart'. I know a WHOOOLE lot of 'smart folks' who are completely useless/clueless when it comes to building things with their bare hands.

Metalworking, machining, tool and die fabrication -- there's a lot of "blue collar" work that goes into producing and crafting a "white collar" idea. What, just because you've got the blueprints and understanding of how something works means you also understand, know, and are a master at actually building all the parts, gathering the materials for, and having the tools to create, operate, and maintain such an item?

And while I'm sure that might factor in to the 'it might take 5 decades rather than 5 years' -- my other "wonder" is that, well, if you have people who are born in the vault, taught or learn from people in the vault, then perhaps they too can either learn or be 'apprenticed' by some of the vault folks on how to build or 'advance' certain facets of technology.

But out there...out in the wasteland -- shit, if you survived, what's going to be a more pressing concern? Food and shelter? Having irradiation, fubar weather patters(?) and all that is going to make at least a lot of trouble for some time. (Lucifer's Hammer?) By the time you were ready and comfortable to devote your time to going out and trying to get enough people together to build a nuclear reactor, you'd need to go find materials to build the parts, and then spend the time, again, machining and calibrating all the parts. That's IF you still had tools to do that which weren't (A) destroyed by the blast to begin with, or (B) left out in an 'unprocteded' environment where they didn't rust or fall to a point where the tool became unreliable unusable. So even if you had SOME tools, you'd need to build the complex tools, first, THEN start building the parts (if you were any good at it by then), and THEN start assembling the stuff. If you weren't old/sick/dead by then. And if you wanted to have folks help, you'd need to try and teach them that on tools that might be subpar, which takes more time, not to mention that most people might understand the principle of how a car works, but to build one from 'scratch' or with a pile of (perhaps with many missing) parts would be difficult.

So all in all, while I don't have a problem with 'technology instances' here and there, or even some advances in certain cases, I even found the level of...I don't know... "relaxation" in certain terms, to be even kind of silly in Fallout 2. I think that's why I liked the more desolate, struggling feel of the first game -- because there was more of a feel of very small, "fighting to survive" people around rather than places like New Reno or San Francisco that just seemed a bit too 'clean and built up' for my believability or liking in terms of a planet that has been ravaged by nuclear war.
 
As for weapons and armor - I would think that even if the infrastructure and industry were prepared for nuclear war, in that both the scientists and factories/labs/etc. could physically survive it (the Enclave for example), the level of progress would still drop extremely low for technology, and would be almost non-existent for weapons and armor. The main reason weapons and armor "evolve" is that nations are constantly trying to gain an advantage over one another. A nuclear holocaust would most likely end that need though - if China, Russia, or any other "enemy" nation doesn't exist anymore, there isn't really a need to keep developing more and more powerful armaments.

If a single soldier in power armor equiped with a plasma rifle could destroy almost every remaining shred of civilization, why would anyone waste their time creating "Advanced Power Armor" and even more powerful weapons? There are much more pressing needs in an irradiated wasteland than creating a more efficient mini-gun, or creating armor to withstand types of damage that will probably never be used against it.

There are no nations or corporations competing anymore to produce superior technology. Rival tribes or "cities" aren't going to have the know-how or resources to make better weapons and armor(especially when the "cities" are mainly anarchic collectives), and it is doubtful that occasional forays from raiders would inspire them to do so. People are mugged, shot, beaten, and raped every day in our cities, and probably far more often than would ever be the case in a post-nuclear civilization. A town stuggling to meet their basic needs of food, water and shelter isn't going to devote any time to creating better weapons to fend off criminals any more than we do in the present day. If a working handgun or rifle is enough to kill someone, that's going to be good enough for 99% of the population.

As far a general technology goes - to paraphrase N, if someone had blueprints and all the tools and components, chances are good they'd be able to build something. But when you have to not only make the components, but the tools themselves, the vast majority of people aren't going to be able to do it. So the general populance wouldn't even be able to build on current tech for decades at least, until they had caught up. And given that back-breaking agricultural labour doesn't really supply the leisure for invention and scientific pursuit even under regular circumstances, its doubtful much is going to happen even 100 or so years after the bombs dropped.

Of course, I'm kind of assuming a world where Vault City, the Shi, The Hubologists and the Enclave don't all exist at the same time. This is why I'm glad they're sticking more to the F1 universe - F1 had a much better feel of a post-apoc world than F2 did, even granted it occured 80 years after.
 
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