Fallout NV Companion Alignments

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by cyberpunker, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. cyberpunker

    cyberpunker First time out of the vault

    4
    Dec 26, 2020
    I made an alignment chart based on how each companion interacted with the Courier and the rest of the world during the game. What do you guys think? Here are my Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 versions too!

     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  2. Callahan96

    Callahan96 First time out of the vault

    14
    Feb 27, 2021
    I can never really decide on whether Joshua Graham is evil. Yes, he was the Malpais Legate and committed atrocities, but there’s a part of me that thinks his actions whilst living among the Dead Horses redeems him. I really don’t know though.
     
  3. bro.nada

    bro.nada Guest

    Think of it like this 'Malpais Legate' would be lawful evil committing atrocities in Caesar's name. Joshua Graham would be lawful neutral because he believes he's God's vengeance personified. God's authority is higher than Caesar's so he's lawful neutral if he honestly believes that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2021
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  4. Dayglow Drifter

    Dayglow Drifter Mildly Dipped

    524
    Sep 25, 2018
    The issue with making an alignment chart for companions is that their own moral alignments shift over the course of the game in many cases based on how you respond to their personal quests.
     
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  5. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    My view of Graham is that he's exactly the same in Honest Hearts, and that his redemption comes in the ending if he spares Salt Upon Wounds. He's an angry violent man that justifies his violence with higher calling, whether it's Caesar or God his behaviour is the same.

    He's shaping rural tribes into brutal warmachines, and is shown committing war crimes by executing the unarmed and surrendered out of anger. Does it matter if he's reciting the Bible or spouting Legion dogma? Not really. He happens to be putting this violence to a better cause than the Legion out of circumstance but fundamentally the man is the same, unless the Courier stays his hand.
     
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  6. XNarrol

    XNarrol First time out of the vault

    30
    Jan 20, 2021
    Why is Raul impure? I liked the chart and agree with almost every characther (Apart from Raul and Joshua), but it really troubles me why he is a impure.

    Also, what is impure? I am not a D&D player, but I do know of the alignment system from Planescape: Torment, and there was no moral ou impure alignment, so I am kinda lost on why on this
     
  7. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013

    I'd say it's because he kind of fits into an anti-hero category. He's very morally apathetic and gruff barring events of personal morality (like getting revenge on his sister).
     
  8. XNarrol

    XNarrol First time out of the vault

    30
    Jan 20, 2021
    Hm... Makes sense in this case.
    Alright, thanks!
     
  9. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    For reference I have no idea what impure means either and I have played DnD
     
  10. cordelionreaver

    cordelionreaver Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    410
    Nov 29, 2015
    I played DnD and I never heard of impure or moral alignments. I think what the OP means by impure and moral is not quite evil or good. Maybe he just wanted everyone to have their own alignment.

    I actually kinda of curious how the OP decided what alignments people went into.
     
  11. Dayglow Drifter

    Dayglow Drifter Mildly Dipped

    524
    Sep 25, 2018
    Yeah same
     
  12. cyberpunker

    cyberpunker First time out of the vault

    4
    Dec 26, 2020
    Joshua Graham was focused on vengeance, destruction of his enemies, and protection of his people. That puts him in Lawful Evil category. Being Lawful Evil doesn't mean you don't care about your own people. Don Corleone for example is a Lawful Evil character. Lawful Evil means that you are willing to commit atrocities and use whatever means to accomplish your objectives, however you also simultaneously maintain a code that you live by. Joshua Graham checks all those boxes for Lawful Evil.

    True but Fallout companions don't really change that much except Raul. I ranked them where they were at the end of the storyline. I also based it on whether you let them do exactly what they wanted to do in game without changing their minds. So Raul became the Vaquero and Joshua Graham killed Salt-Upon-Wounds.

    I agree. I had him as Lawful Evil for the same reasons. I also consider him NOT sparing Salt Upon Wounds as canon, because that is what he would have done if the Courier never tries to change his mind.

    Impure means that you are not evil, but you are not "neutral" either. You are not above doing morally bad acts to get your goals, but you don't make it a point to do so regularly. You are also capable of good acts for those you care about. You are not really altruistic. You don't really have a respect for the rule of law nor do you respect many of society's ethical codes. You kind of do what you want in order to achieve your goals.

    Exactly it.

    Moral and Impure are gradations of the space between Good and Neutral and between Neutral and Evil. Everyone should have their own alignment, but the availability of in between alignments like Moral or Impure allow us to better describe the nuances in each of their personalities.

    Regarding your question of how I decided what alignments people went into, it was based on their own conversations with you, their actions, their endings, their personalities, and their quests.

    Good Characters: These characters have a strong sense of what is right...and are also actually right. For example: Cass, Arcade Gannon, and God all have a personal code of doing good, living up to a moral standard, or helping people.

    Moral Characters: These characters don't outright adhere to any formal standard of behavior, any code of doing good, nor do they have any particular desire to help people. BUT they are not against helping people. They often unconsciously do adhere to some sort of standard for morality. And some like Veronica do actually subconsciously have a code of doing good; but she does not really insist on it unless someone pushes her. Moral characters are also far more likely to compromise on their behavior compared to Good characters.

    Neutral Characters: These characters are often indifferent to the struggles of "good vs evil". Either because they are a robot or a dog with aggressively trained behavior, or because they are so jaded that they just want to be left alone. That does not mean they are indifferent to their surroundings though. Boone has a personal mission of vengeance. However he doesn't pursue genocidal tactics against people who have nothing to do with his beef against the Legion. Nor does he pretend that his crusade against the Legion is particularly righteous. But he does do what he wants to do, without consciously dipping into committing evil deeds.

    Impure Characters: These characters are like neutral characters except they are not above using morally questionable means to get their ends. They are not above doing morally bad acts to get their goals, but they don't make it a point to do so regularly. They are also capable of good acts for those they care about, but don't really go out of their way for others. They are not really altruistic. They don't really have a respect for the rule of law nor do they respect many of society's ethical codes. They kind of do what they need to in order to achieve their goals, and they have no problem doing evil acts to achieve them. Lily for example struggles with Leo, a psychopathic voice that tells her to do terrible things. In reality, Leo and Lily are one and the same person and that presence of "Leo" makes Lily able to do terrible things while still distancing herself from her own psychopathic thoughts. She wants to be a normal person while at the same time has a side of her that is actually a psychopathic nightkin. Raul the Vaquero is an outlaw at heart; he also is not like Boone who has a code. He does whatever he needs to in order to get what he wants and will kill innocents who are in his way. Same with Christine. Impure characters may feel bad about their actions if they commit evil, but not bad enough to never purposefully commit evil.

    Evil Characters: These characters make it a habit to do evil things in order to get what they want. They actually no longer care about whether or not their own actions are evil. Joshua Graham probably knows deep down he is not doing good things. And Joshua Graham deep down is fine with that. This does not mean evil characters are psychos all the time or even psychos at all. They may even have friends, family, and be capable of sustained cooperation. However, these guys are perfectly happy to do anything it takes to get what they want and they often make a point to do so. They don't even feel bad, unlike Impure characters. Evil characters adopt an ends justify the means, with often times evil ends and evil means. The fact that Joshua Graham may try to convince himself that he is doing God's work is irrelevant; we see that he is perfectly aware of what he is doing and gladly does so.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2022 at 10:03 PM
  13. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Not Gollum Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Just doing my part to make it readable.