Flamer vs Bozar

Discussion in 'Fallout RPG Gameplay & Tech' started by Haimerej, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. Haimerej

    Haimerej It Wandered In From the Wastes

    104
    Dec 13, 2007
    From my opinion the Improved Flamethrower is better than the Bozar, why these are my proof:

    Pyromaniac - This perk adds +10 Damage
    Bonus Ranged Damage(2) - This perk when upgraded to max gives a weak but at least some damage of +4
    Sniper - on a Critical Die Roll you will do a Critical Hit, 10 LCK gives Criticals all the time(Do the Dance!!! :ugly: )

    Flamer Does 45-90

    thats:

    40-90 + 14-14 = 54-104 Base Damage
    Compared to Bozar its?
    25-35 = 14-14 = 39-49 Base Damage

    Seems the Flamer looks deadlier...

    P.S.
    What is the formula for a critical hit?
     
  2. Nimrod

    Nimrod It Wandered In From the Wastes

    196
    Sep 24, 2007
    One thing in your equation: The Bozar shoots more bullets, meaning the Bonus Ranged Damage perk should apply to every bullet fired, not the burst as a whole. Plus the ammo used is highly effective which will alter the "on paper" stats.

    I like to keep a flamer around anyway but that's primarily because there don't seem to be many critters with fire resistance. Works great on charging Floaters and Centaurs, plus it's just cool. But with the ridiculously short range and massive weight it's one of those things I'll only have around as a backup or when I just want to have some fun.

    I REALLY need to do some testing and see if there is a definable difference when using the improved flamer and fuel mk2 together. It always seems to me that the two together are way more effective than when mixing and matching, but it could be the mushrooms.
     
  3. Demonslayer

    Demonslayer Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    968
    Aug 8, 2005
    I really never use bozar.
    Seriously i love to see them dance after a good spread of fire. :twisted:
     
  4. Kanhef

    Kanhef Vault Dweller

    793
    Sep 2, 2007
    Regular flamer fuel has a +25% damage resistance modifier, which makes it weaker than the mk. 2 fuel. The only difference between the flamers is that the improved one has the 'flameboy' perk, whose function is unknown. It would be great if you could find out how that works.
     
  5. Haimerej

    Haimerej It Wandered In From the Wastes

    104
    Dec 13, 2007
    Sometimes on some critters I did a Hit on them,but the damage was 0, was that just a Critical Failed Hit? And for Big Boy/Girl Builds we use the Perks Pack Rat & Strong Back(2) Early on or actually they replace Bonus Move(2) for a while...
     
  6. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    Arglebargle, glop-glyf!?!
     
  7. Nimrod

    Nimrod It Wandered In From the Wastes

    196
    Sep 24, 2007
    Ah screw it, I'm gonna go take out Vault City. I'll report back. :twisted:
     
  8. Nimrod

    Nimrod It Wandered In From the Wastes

    196
    Sep 24, 2007
    Okay, apparently it was the mushrooms.

    After spending the morning burning Vault City to the ground (very cathartic by the way, I hate that place) I've come up with some numbers. This isn't exactly scientific, I just walked in with both flamers and 50 rounds of both fuels and fried anything that moved. So I didn't kill the same number of civilians vs. guards every time. This is without the Sniper perk and I didn't include critical hits in the calculations.

    Normal Flamer + Normal Fuel
    Critical hits - 5 total
    Avg damage - Unarmored (civilians): 50.64
    Avg damage - Armored (guards): 29.28

    Imp Flamer + Normal Fuel
    Critical hits - 8 total
    Avg damage - Unarmored: 49.31
    Avg damage - Armored: 18.72

    Normal Flamer + Mk2 Fuel
    Critical hits - 7 total
    Avg damage - Unarmored: 71.32
    Avg damage - Armored: 48.32

    Imp Flamer + Mk2 Fuel
    Critical hits - 5 total
    Avg damage - Unarmored: 65.62
    Avg damage - Armored: 54.46

    So from what I can tell, there's no significant difference between the normal Flamer and the Improved Flamer, it's apparently all in the fuel. So whatever the Flameboy perk is supposed to do, it's either broken or really isn't noticeable.

    Perhaps this is something that should be adjusted in a patch/mod, because it really does seem that there's no difference between flamers. Maybe they were originally only supposed to accept their respective fuels, I dunno.
     
  9. Kanhef

    Kanhef Vault Dweller

    793
    Sep 2, 2007
    The regular flamer shouldn't be able to use mk 2 fuel. It isn't clear from the descriptions if the improved flamer can use regular fuel or not. Being able to use both would be convenient, since the regular kind is more common.
     
  10. Madbringer

    Madbringer What is it that crawls behind the glass? Orderite

    Apr 9, 2004
    I don't think it makes any difference, since you can upgrade the ordinary flamer fuel to the improved version.

    I do agree it would make more sense, though.. and it seems weird that improving the flamer does not give any actual benefits. Oo

    At least a slight damage increase would be in order.
     
  11. Haimerej

    Haimerej It Wandered In From the Wastes

    104
    Dec 13, 2007
    Just another theory in the Flamer but maybe Improved Flamers do a higher chance of doing higher damage, I.E. A Normal Flamer would still be able to shoot 0 Damage most of the time.
     
  12. Nimrod

    Nimrod It Wandered In From the Wastes

    196
    Sep 24, 2007
    I like the idea of the normal flamer not being able to use Mk2 fuel, with the improved flamer able to use both. I don't know if that could be done though.

    I've actually never seen this.
     
  13. Lord Elden

    Lord Elden Still Mildly Glowing

    229
    Apr 27, 2007
    Ehm... You're forgetting that a Bozar spits out much much much more than a single bullet with each *burst*, friend... And Pyromaniac only adds +10 damage to Flamers and Molotovs not Bozars nor any other non-*fire* based weapon (you may want to check the word 'pyromania' in the dictionary...)

    It would look like *this* on paper:

    40-90+10+2+2= 54-104 (avg. 79)
    (25-35 +2+2)x 15= 435-585 (avg. 510)

    But that's not taking in account the properties of the specific ammo types and, friend, is .223 killer ammo or what?

    ...
     
  14. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    Compulsively correcting, I'll point out that Pyromaniac gives only +5 damage and doesn't work with Molotov Cocktails.
     
  15. Lord Elden

    Lord Elden Still Mildly Glowing

    229
    Apr 27, 2007
    Honestly, I've never used it, I thought it was 10+ because the thread starter mentioned that number... Only +5? Makes it even more worthless...
     
  16. Yoshi525

    Yoshi525 Vault Senior Citizen
    Orderite

    Dec 10, 2006
    The Bozar is miles ahead of the (Improved) Flamer.

    - It has a VERY decent range, the flamer has a terrible range.

    - It may do less damage by your calcs but thats for one bullet, it fire ten per burst.

    - .233 ammo has better mods than flamer fuel.

    - It's easy to get fairly early, the ammo is cheaper, more common and lighter. The weapon may be a bit lighter too but i cant be bothered to check.

    The flamer really is a dreadful weapon. Sure you can do loads of damage with it but you can with any big gun.

    A combo of Bozar + fast shot + bonus shot + 2 action boy + 10 A + better criticals/sniper/decent luck is just about the best setup you can ever really get, the exception perhaps being the same with a vindicator, but that is a bitch to get ammo for even late in the game.
     
  17. Robert Czarwolski

    Robert Czarwolski It Wandered In From the Wastes

    131
    Feb 5, 2007
    Bozar/Flamer

    Avenger with the upper perks and 5mm JHP is one-burst-one-kill agaist enclave.
    Bozar fires 15 rounds not 10 (10 is the LSW).
    Bozar is a weapon that should not be taken into tests, it is completely out of place in the fallout world. The 14mm (Sniper) Bozar in the canon fixes is much more fallouty. I simply HATE Bozar, what the hell is a sniper that fires 30 .223 shots with a little magazine only in FAST full_auto? However this is out topic, so i better shut up.
    Maybe the "flameboy" perk is a critical enhancer?
    At maximum flamer rng (5hexes), bozar do damage as much as the flamer (maybe not all bullets hit?)?
     
  18. Haimerej

    Haimerej It Wandered In From the Wastes

    104
    Dec 13, 2007
    I'm kind of getting it a bit now, I already see the advatages of the Bozar compared to in the many "Big Guns"

    PROS
    - Bozar is Lighter to most latter Big Guns.

    - Ammunition for the Bozar is easy to buy and has excellent effects.

    CONS
    - The Frm for the Bozar is only a "rifle"

    - The Bozar has wrong "Rattataatt!!!" Sound

    -O-
    The Second Con can be remedied by modding...

    Overall the Bozar still "wins" over in the Top Biggies as I call it:
    Gauss Pistol - King of Pistols
    Gauss Rifle - King of Rifles
    Mega Power Fist - King of Unarmed
    Bozar - King of Big Guns
    Super Sledgehammer - King of Melee Weapons
    Turbo Plasma Rifle - King of Energy Weapons
    Plasma Grenade - King of Thrown Weapons/Holy Hand Grenade - King of "Hacked" Thrown Weapons
     
  19. Nimrod

    Nimrod It Wandered In From the Wastes

    196
    Sep 24, 2007
    Re: Bozar/Flamer

    I didn't think to pay close attention to the effect of critical hits (dammit), but I don't recall anything that made me go "Wow!" - a couple of 100+ damage shots. The character had the Better Criticals perk (which I should have removed), but who knows - maybe Flameboy is the equivalent?
     
  20. Kanhef

    Kanhef Vault Dweller

    793
    Sep 2, 2007
    Arguably, the super cattle prod is better than the super sledge. It doesn't have the knockback effect, so you aren't chasing people all over the place.