[FO2] Ammo stats

Per

Per

Vault Consort
Staff member
Admin
Ammo stats

Er, help. I thought I knew how ammo stats work but it turns out I probably don't. The "dmg mod" (looking like 2/1 or 1/2) I believed was a multiplier expressed as a fraction, applied to the weapon damage. Looking at the "Ammo FAQ" it says the same thing. However, when I ran FIME I noticed that the dmg modifier is actually two independent variables, one called "AC dmg modifier" (or "anti-AC dmg modifier") and the other "DR dmg modifier". 2/1 means one of them is 2 and the other is 1. So obviously it's not what I thought it was, which makes sense in a way (why not adjust the base damage for those weapons that can only use one ammo type anyway?). But that still leaves me wondering what the hell these numbers do. What are they applied to, how and why? Presumably they do something that could not be done just by changing the static AC/DR modifiers. I can only guess, does anyone know?

/Per
 
RE: Ammo stats

Hi, Per, how's going?

Hmm.., how about backing up a bit? I don't understand your question as you stated(you were rambling somewhat. :P).

Are you asking about how to caculate the damages correctly? I used to be able to do this within 5-10pts of damage, but I can't remember what formula I used to get the result. Let me look it up and find out somewhat.

Starseeker, signing off.

"The final price of freedom, is the willingness to face the most frightening being of all, one's own self."
 
RE: Ammo stats

Maybe, and what is confusing is that Armour Piercing ammo does not really pierce armor. So JHP or FMJ is always better than AP ammo. Maybe thats why you didn't get it?
 
RE: Ammo stats

>Hmm.., how about backing up a
>bit? I don't understand
>your question as you stated(you
>were rambling somewhat. :P).
>

OK, a bit slower:

I (and most everyone else, it seems) thought the damage of a bullet (before applying DT/DR) was calculated like this:

Weapon damage x Dmg Mod

And then you apply DT/DR exactly like it says in the manual, with the ammo's DR mod applied to the target's DR (the ammo's AC mod is applied when deciding whether you hit or not, so we can forget about that when discussing damage).

But then I find that the Dmg Mod which I thought was one variable is in fact two different variables. Previously I thought JHP was 2/1, i.e. 2, and AP was 1/2, i.e. 0.5. But really they're "2 and 1" and "1 and 2" respectively. The Dmg Mod is not a fraction at all.

So this leaves me wondering what these "2 and 1" really are and what they do. If the first variable (2 for JHP) is something to do with AC, then it shouldn't affect damage at all, only chance to hit. That leaves the second variable, DR dmg mod. This is 1 for JHP and 2 for AP. One guess is that the damage soaked up by DR is multiplied by this factor, which would make AP ammo lose more damage to armour.

Note that in this case 2mm EC which has 3/2 would have the same DR penetrating problems as AP ammo, and possibly the 3 is applied to some AC penalty as well, so that 1/1 is really the best Dmg Mod. Or maybe the numbers before and after the slash are applied in completely different ways. But it would seem you want the DR Dmg Mod to be as low as possible.

In any case it seems very unlikely that the numbers actually mean what we thought they meant, and that JHP doesn't really do four times as much base damage, "only" two times as much, before DT/DR effects kick in.

>Are you asking about how to
>caculate the damages correctly?

I want to know exactly what each ammo factor does. I mean, we already know for a fact that AP ammo sucks. I just want to know the precise way in which it sucks.

/Per
 
RE: Ammo stats

Where did you get the "1/2 is actually 2 varibles"?

If I remember correctly, I had to wip out my high school algebra for the caculation, but I'll be damned if I can remember what is was. I guess I'll have to go play another game to find out. Hey, you just made me loose another week of sleep. :D:P

Starseeker, signing off.

"The final price of freedom, is the willingness to face the most frightening being of all, one's own self."
 
RE: Ammo stats

>Where did you get the "1/2
>is actually 2 varibles"?
>

FIME, Fallout Items Mode Editor, downloadable from this site.

/Per
 
RE: Ammo stats

I think I've got something, but I am not sure about it yet. I just can't seem to remember what I did to make it work. Do you have any theories? I am just letting you know that I haven't abandon your cause yet.

:PStarseeker, signing off.

"The final price of freedom, is the willingness to face the most frightening being of all, one's own self."
 
RE: Ammo stats

>I think I've got something, but
>I am not sure about
>it yet. I just
>can't seem to remember what
>I did to make it
>work. Do you have
>any theories?

Not any more than before. Thought about asking Chris Avellone, but I doubt the Bible is for technical stuff...

/Per
 
RE: Ammo stats

how about editing ammo stats ?
The RedRyder LE BB for instance does always the same dmg against unarmored opponents as min dmg is the same as max

Or isn't it possible to change ammo stats, yet ? Dunno, as I never bothered to check on modding FO :-)
 
RE: Ammo stats

>how about editing ammo stats ?
>
>The RedRyder LE BB for instance
>does always the same dmg
>against unarmored opponents as min
>dmg is the same as
>max
>

That's a good idea, but I haven't figured out how to get the game to use modified item files. I put a modified .pro file in both data/proto/items and in the corresponding folder for a save game, but the game deleted it, or, if I flagged it as read only, ignored it. Undoubtedly some modder should know, but now we're crossing into the mod forum domain... :)

/Per
 
RE: Ammo stats

Yo Per

If you want to use modified pro files you have to do like this. In the prog datman create a new dat file. Add all pro files in it. Save the file as patch000.dat (this means that you have to extract all files from the original patch000.dat file and put them into folders).



http://www.imahosting.com/sigs/falloutburn.gif
 
RE: Ammo stats

You just now figured that out, frankywannabe?

I've studied it myself and I don't understand why they did it the way they did. It should just be as simple as JHP does more damage yet has no AP capabilites, and AP rounds completely penetrate armor yet do less base damage.

Which does more damage to a rat: JHP
Which does more damage to an Enclave Trooper: AP

That system would work. However, the developers of the engine must've been all huffed up on paint so now it's JHP is best for all. I like the Fallout Tactics sytem, like how for the Shotgun Shells they actaully list for example the Flachette shells do 60%(?) damage and have less armor peircing capabilities and then there are AP shells that do (?)% less damage and have better armor pericing capabilities, or so it states.

Per, did your inbox max out or something or did you just switch after I sent my email and never updated the link from your so-called "perfect" guide? I had a list of definate improvements that could and should be added in the next version.

"Eat lead, chop shop boy!" - Chosen One
All hail Lord Phrog, #1 fan and veteran of Fallout series.
 
RE: Ammo stats

>Per, did your inbox max out
>or something or did you
>just switch after I sent
>my email and never updated
>the link from your so-called
>"perfect" guide? I had
>a list of definate improvements
>that could and should be
>added in the next version.
>

Hi again, Splat. Yep, I got your mail and replied to it, which you probably noticed since you responded to that in your turn. Your comments did warrant a couple of clarifications in the update, which hasn't been released yet but will be in another month or two.

/Per
 
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