FOnline 2238 Model Project

F

FIGBird

First time out of the vault
Alright, so I have been enjoying FOnline for awhile now and know that a lot of the players want to see more variation in the wastes... More clothes and skins and whatlike. I also know that the development team wants to at some point allow for different races. All of these things require full playable skins including weapons and armor...

So, what I am trying to put together is a team of people willing to work together to build complete playable skins one at a time... Basically what we would do is focus on one skin and have a list of everything that needs to be made and then have each member choose one and work on it until it is done and then move on. That way we get multiple people working on a single skin, it can get produced faster...

Right now I have one other person that has shown some interest what I would like to see is how many people out here are willing to help on this project. Post here if you are and if there is enough manpower (or womanpower) to get it done, I will see about setting up a way to do it... I can also be reached via IRC whenever I am online in the 2238 channel... Here is the IRC Link
 
Ok, any of the people who have done some work on editing Fallout animations (myself included) can tell you that this is very time-consuming and repetitive work... here's some numbers for you: 169 * 6 * 11 (average) = 11,154. That's 169 for the total number of animations (frm files), 6 for the critter orientations (north-east, east, etc, etc), and 11 frames per animation as average. So, 11,154 frames need to be edited (one at a time, no automation here, even with stacking layers) to get 1 armor set with all possible animations for it.

Some, however, have been crazy enough to tackle those odds ( :P ), and you can check their work in some threads of this modding forum, you could perhaps even offer to help (and help) if you're willing. :wink:
 
Yes its insane work, but there are some half-done skins like supermutants. Only thing whats missing is running animation which would not look ridiculous. They can use all two handed big and energy weapons, maybe some HtH weapons would be good for them too but things like small guns or energy pistols are naturally out of their limits. Same with armors, almost every possible armor for supermutants is already there (and looks awesome but I'm sure they are not complete).

Supermutant.gif
Supermutant2.gif
Lieutenant2.gif


If there is someone skilled enough to make them run, then developers can add new playable race into the game.

Anyway game does not need strictly new player skins. It could use some new critters or simply recolor some old armors or items (like i suggested in FOnline forums -> fire gecko Leather Armor with bonus fire/explosion resistance, different jumpsuits or robes...). Someone mentioned that recoloring of combat armor into the black one took 3 months. Put 10 people to that work and it *should* take 10 days and thats what we are talking about.
 
The Lou frm can't use flamer(animation) and rocket launcher. Also I wouldn't concentrate on making them running. It will not look good anyway, trust me. It would be easier to make new critters out of existing ones (with copy&pasting, recolor, etc).

We want to add Ghouls and Supermutants in future, regardless if they can run or not.

What I personally would love to see:
- a leather jacked with two arms and
- new frm's for females. A good base would be the woman with the red hair that is already in the game, with very basic animations or the woman with the green hair. I checked the green hair already but saw that the skin color is different. So this might be "a little problem" because what we don't want to do in 2238, is that you can choose your skin on character creation (except when we get the black male/ female done, then we would do this of course).
 
x'il I know the numbers, those numbers are huge... This is why I want to get a GROUP working on it at the same time. This would cut back the time significantly because two people working is half the time needed (theoretically). This would also, for me at least, keep up motivation so that it actually gets done.


Anyway Speaking of the red headed female, the other guy I have interested in this actually has been working on her, he send me the FRM for her swinging a hammer and it looked nice... Perhaps we will focus on her to start, since you have mentioned her specifically, Lexx.

Nonetheless, if you are interested in this project and want to help either PM me or post here... I really want to start this up and I know I won't be able to do it alone...
 
I didnt knew where to post this between all different topics talking about skin modding...
I already talked about that with figbird and solar on irc and as they think its a good idea ill post it here to see if its even possible.

As i understand it, engine uses frm files for animations of different characters. What about having one object, the character and in it 4 frm files, head, body, legs, weapon.
This would give some hard work in the start for cutting existing pictures, and some time for coding and putting them together. But when its done u got infinite possibilities, first for making new heads, cause making one new head will now be only 20 pics instead of 20000, then even new armors, hats, helmets, weapons,colors,etc...

The game will get an huge bigger intrest like that for players that will almost be able to have unique characters.

Of course this will still require a lot of work but would be worth it.
I am ready to work and give my free time on this, wanna know first if its even possible.
 
Sh4D said:
(...)
Click to expand...

A bad idea: going through all of the hero frm's (and only hero frm's, not npc's as they don't have all of the animations), selecting, cutting, adjusting (since in a few cases the same animations for different armors have different arm positions or torso angles, etc.) separating each frame into what? 4 parts (frames)?, not to mention, the "editor" that would be necessary to rotate, view and (batch) apply all this body parts (layers), otherwise you'd literally drown in a sea of trizillion layers. And, of course the coding part (which may not even be possible).

Sh4D said:
(...) Of course this will still require a lot of work (...)
Click to expand...

No, not a lot of work, but an unimaginable amount of work.
 
A bad idea: going through all of the hero frm's (and only hero frm's, not npc's as they don't have all of the animations), selecting, cutting, adjusting (since in a few cases the same animations for different armors have different arm positions or torso angles, etc.) separating each frame into what? 4 parts (frames)?, not to mention, the "editor" that would be necessary to rotate, view and (batch) apply all this body parts (layers), otherwise you'd literally drown in a sea of trizillion layers. And, of course the coding part (which may not even be possible).


yes separating in 4 parts, so for example ull need like 20 images for all different heads instead of 20000 images for a head, its a lot of work to cut it all and code it but its a normal base for a good mmorpg. If u want to have really intresting content its the only way, or eveytime ull make a new head ull have to draw 20000 new images frames. Arms will be part of body, torso have all 6 angles. and u wont get trilion layers as u would use existing layer for different characters use that kind of body, legs, etc, only need to position it good for each position which aint so complicated to code. Worste part of work is cutting existing pictures for it, but then can u even imagine how much possiblities it gives? instead of just making 20000 pics for one new different head skin u would make 20 pics and ur new head is ready to use, or 50 pics for armor and it will be rdy to use.
And making an editor for it would be easy if its possible to make it
Its even not difficult to code with few booleans or numbers.
U got one object called character
in that object u got 4 object
head with different layers having each frames corresponding for long hair head, helmet head etc... that head will go on a body with his own layer, each layer having coresponding frames, metal frames leather frames etc, then legs and weapon
u just need to know if ur char if looking est position for example which is est boolean that will make all objects rotate on est position. if char puts something on floor u got putting object on floor boolean active too and then all frames will correspond to that.
As i c it worste part is cutting everything but its worth it
 
What you're talking about is almost exactly how the Diablo 2 engine handles its critters. But Diablo 2 has a significanltly more advanced engine than FO2 so trying to convert FO2's graphics to this format would, as x'il says, be a phenomenal amount of work. It would probably actually be less work to rebuild the engine from scratch (or use a Diablo-esque engine) and re-create all the critters using 3D modeling.

Either way ... more work than i could comprehend. :crazy:
 
Thing is, the Diablo 2 figures have been rendered in that way. All animations have the same positions, etc. You can place everything over everything and it still fits. This is not possible with normal Fallout critters. It would be needed to adjust a lot stuff. But beside this, Fallout has also more figure animations, than Diablo 2.

With a more or less good editor, to "puzzle" the critter together and re-checking the animations, it could work pretty well in my opinion. Still, this doesn't change the fact, that a) a lot³³³ frames need to be edited and b) a lot³³³ frames need to be adjusted to fit with each other.

But beside this, if one is planning to add more playertypes, it is definitive one of the ways to go, because the math is simple: You have one normal player with lets say 27 animations. Now you change the hair, +27 animations, now you add a new armor (recolor) +54 animations, new hair +108 animations, etc. etc.
 
12320096924ad4265891e63.png


This is hot!

Anyway, the only reasonable solution for mass-different-looking-critter-production is to create and animate them in 3d. Plain and simple.
 
Anyway, the only reasonable solution for mass-different-looking-critter-production is to create and animate them in 3d. Plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Calling sirren67!

If a player model could be animated in 3d and then skinned (is that the term?) imagine how many different critters could be made in a short time!
 
This could be the answer. Anyway i believe it will be next to impossible to make the exact same clone of player (default male+female) models. Maybe I'm just pessimistic and i hope I'm wrong on this but i don't think it will be easy to use this on current player models.
 
Sius said:
i believe it will be next to impossible to make the exact same clone of player (default male+female) models.
Click to expand...
That's true, but 90-95% of similarity (animations + meshes + textures) should be enough and is possible.
 
3d could be a solution but
1.its so much not fallout
2.i wanna see all the death animations in 3D
3.having a 3d model is nice but for a 60 pixel length character it might be a waste of time
 
Sh4D said:
1.its so much not fallout
Click to expand...
What? Because something is done in 3d, isn't Fallouty? And how original critters were done? By hand painting?

Sh4D said:
2.i wanna see all the death animations in 3D
Click to expand...
They're tricky but possible.

Sh4D said:
3.having a 3d model is nice but for a 60 pixel length character it might be a waste of time
Click to expand...
That's why you don't to be uber skilled 3d artist and create a "professional" looking 3d model, which is, I think, a plus in this case. It's just a few pixels on the screen.
 
Parts of the death animations have been painted by hand anyway. Not sure who said it, maybe Jason Anderson or Jessi Heining, can't remember right now.
 
Lexx said:
Parts of the death animations have been painted by hand anyway.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I had problems with those small pieces/blood which are flying away from body after critical hit. It's a good work for 2d, rather than fucking with it in 3d. But again, after creating good "template" it's a only matter of changing materials to "apply" them to another character...

But who cares about death animations anyway... Are they some key element of Fallout or something? I don't think so. I'd sacrifice them to gain much more bigger diversity in critter's look. I mean not wasting a time for doing them.

Anyway, waiting for more results of Holy Painting Crusade! :ugly:
 
death animations made fallout... wouldnt be what it is without them.
Theyre is also another 2d solution for many critters and i alrdy posted it above :D
 
I played the german version many years because I didn't know that it was horrible cut. Still, it was a great game because of the atmosphere and not the death animations.
 
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