French 35 Hour Work week

John Uskglass

Venerable Relic of the Wastes
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...an18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/18/ixworld.html

French 35-hour week 'a disaster'
By Philip Delves Broughton in Paris
(Filed: 18/05/2004)

The French government yesterday described the 35-hour working week as a financial disaster that was costing the state billions of pounds and promised to reform the system despite fierce union opposition.

In an interview in yesterday's Le Figaro, the finance minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, said that the 35-hour week had lumbered the state with £10 billion a year in additional social charges and that it had demoralised millions of workers.

"The Socialists made a decision which is not compatible with our responsibilities to Europe," he said. He suggested a system whereby those who wanted to stay on the 35-hour week could do so, but those who wanted to work and earn more had greater latitude.

"At a state level, we must make productivity gains, but I also want to reward those who work harder…to increase their buying power. This question of buying power is not a taboo."

M Sarkozy was appointed finance minister last month, following the heavy defeat inflicted on President Chirac's ruling Union pour un Mouvement Populaire in regional elections.

He hopes to use the post as a springboard into a campaign for the presidency in 2007, whether or not M Chirac decides not to run again. M Chirac and his prime minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, have backed off any controversial reforms for fear of agitating the unions, but M Sarkozy's ambition is likely to force the pace.

The 35-hour week came into effect in 1997, as the Socialists' big idea for reducing unemployment. Unemployment fell until 2000, while the economy boomed, but has since risen again, to just under 10 per cent.

Employers despised the plan from the start, as they were forced to keep salaries at the same level while getting less work from their employees.

Government aid and repeated promises of flexibility have scarcely helped and the employers' union has not let up in lobbying for the system's repeal.

Employees, however, enjoyed the extra time off allowed by their shorter working week. Working mothers were especially pleased, as it allowed them to see their children on the Wednesday school half-day, gym memberships soared, as did interest in home improvement, gardening and other hobbies.

But with France's economy sputtering, smaller businesses in particular have clamoured for help. A system that once seemed a leap forward in working conditions is now attacked as yet another regulatory burden on those wanting to pull themselves up the economic ladder.

Last August's heat wave also showed the flaws in the system. While almost 15,000 more people than usual died in the first half of the month, hospitals complained that the 35-hour week had left them with severe staff shortages.

In addition to easing France's restrictive labour laws, M Sarkozy is also pursuing an economic nationalism, pressing for changes to European Union rules so that governments can support big companies at times of distress and help to give them a competitive advantage against global rivals.
 
Hmm... in US, we have 40 hour work weeks... but 1 hour a day for lunch... so its 35. What's so wrong about that?
 
MadDog -[TO said:
-]Hmm... in US, we have 40 hour work weeks... but 1 hour a day for lunch... so its 35. What's so wrong about that?

Most employees paid by the hour don't get paid lunch.
 
We also have the option to work overtime, at which we get paid time and a half. I think that's a great system. I work construction, and I don't mind workin an extra coupla hours each day if i'm gonna get paid $24/hr to do it.
 
It's a nice ideal, unfortunately the business world doesn't work very well with those limits.

It would be interesting to see a country impose a salary cap system for its citizens, in which no one can make over a certain amount of money in a year and profits over a certain amount have to be distributed equally among all employees - that way you don't have a situation where a thousand lower level employees have horrible salaries in order to finance the CEO's and executive's absurdly high salaries, and everyone still makes out in the end. It would probably fail just like the 35 hour work week system, but it would be an interesting experiment.
 
Might as well impose a system worldwide in which no one would be allowed to own a penny more than anyone else.

Not.
 
Montez said:
It would be interesting to see a country impose a salary cap system for its citizens, in which no one can make over a certain amount of money in a year and profits over a certain amount have to be distributed equally among all employees - that way you don't have a situation where a thousand lower level employees have horrible salaries in order to finance the CEO's and executive's absurdly high salaries, and everyone still makes out in the end.


The world economy would go fubar if a system like that were imposed. Our lives today are based around a purely capitalist system, in which money (and therefore greed) is our motivation. People have a need to compete, to be better than their fellow man. If money was distrubted equally, so many things would become useless, and people who do jobs that are much more difficult, or dangerous, would complain because the guy who says Hi to people at Walmart was makin the same amount as him, and so on, etc. It would be a catastrophe.
 
I know it wouldn't work, I just think it would be pretty interesting. It'd be pretty funny to see the wealthy coming out of the woodwork to cry "Unfair!!!!!!" and throwing millions of dollars at lobbyists to make sure it didn't happen, or to read interviews with corporate execs whining about how they just couldn't make due with only $200,000 a year.
 
Montez said:
It would be interesting to see a country impose a salary cap system for its citizens, in which no one can make over a certain amount of money in a year and profits over a certain amount have to be distributed equally among all employees - that way you don't have a situation where a thousand lower level employees have horrible salaries in order to finance the CEO's and executive's absurdly high salaries, and everyone still makes out in the end. It would probably fail just like the 35 hour work week system, but it would be an interesting experiment.
This was done already in a number of countries. Perhaps you have heard of a thing called "communism"?

All jokes aside, outcome of this French experiment was predictable. No economy can hope to survive if workers have such privileges, let alone remain competitive with Asian tigers. Even in USA social rights are becoming too great, and economies like German are on the verge of disaster due to extent of workers' privileges. Some economists even refer to USA and EU as the "last bastion of socialism" (hinting that another such bastion, China, has already fallen).
 
MadDog -[TO said:
-]Hmm... in US, we have 40 hour work weeks... but 1 hour a day for lunch... so its 35. What's so wrong about that?

Actually, no, Not all of us. Most people I know working 9 to 5 don't get paid for the one hour of lunch and often they actually work from 8 or 8:30 to 5 or 5:30 for the 40 hour week.

As for France- watch for labor costs growing stagnant as more jobs move East. Also watch for workers in Eastern Europe work longer hours for less money and more capital move East for lower level manufacturing jobs.

The problem with labor is not that it exists. Labor movements, like most contemporary social movements were creatures of industrialization. The problem is that while labor is usually fixed within the boundaries of a state, private capital is fluid and moves over borders.
 
King of Creation said:
We also have the option to work overtime, at which we get paid time and a half. I think that's a great system. I work construction, and I don't mind workin an extra coupla hours each day if i'm gonna get paid $24/hr to do it.

I did a little work in construction myself, and I got paid double when working overtime...

Apparently, your system ain't all that great.
 
I'm an italian CPA who likes play fallout games in very short weekends may greetings to everyone and my excuses for poor english.

The french sistem of weekly 35 hs is wrong but not the principal cause of economy poor performance.

In Italy we still have 40 hours weekly and all is going bad because there are no 40 hours work for everyone.

Principal cause of european economic crisis the high cost of social contributions and therefore high cost of produced goods against China India etc....
 
In Australia many people do unpaid overtime and this is good for the economy although it is bad for the family. Professionals have to work 60 hours a week to keep up, while most people do at least 6 hours more of unpaid overtime than you are 'supposed' to do.

In my theory, a 35 hour week could only work if people were hyper efficient, if shifts alternated and technology supported the economy. But I know next to nothing about economics so my hypothetical society would probably go bankrupt. Still curious though...
 
MadDog -[TO said:
-]No, I said 35, because the 1 hour lunch is unpaid.

Eight to five is nine hours, MadDog. Minus the hour for lunch, you're still working an eight hour day.
 
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