General Mapping Discussion

J

JADabandon

First time out of the vault
Helloes, ive been into Fallout ever sence ive had a Windows 95 based computer and bought Fallout2 when it first went on sale and the same for Tactics. Naturaly I dove into the FOT map making when I first had the chance, none of my maps were ever fully finished. I have been meaning to, but havent had the chance or the time to give a try at making a Fallout 1/2 map.
I still have the passion for wanting to create my own Fallout single player story based game. And I appologize if I end up cross posting in both the Fallout modding and FOT modding forums, but I cant help beg the question. Ive already seen quite a few opinions people have had over the FOT game in general.
But when a person is planning in general to make a Fallout map or series of maps as part of a campaign of sorts. Where does their prefrence lay? Would they create a Fallout 2 map? Is there many reasons for creating a Fallout 1 map vs. a Fallout 2 map? Or would they prefer to create maps or a campaign using Fallout Tactics?

I know there are some technological diferences between the two games. (Sorry if I batch Fallout 1 and 2 together) I understand there is a set of kits and documentation for Fallout2 mapping and scripting. And I have heard of some Fallout 1/2 modernization projects, I think its called FIFE, and I have seen a mention of a libSDL Falllout 1/2 project (So you can play Fallout under Linux with out needing directx support, it also helps modernize Fallout for newer Windows based computers too).

So already there are many choices for fallout modding, but there are still more choices I can find, such as the obvious difrences in the games collection of tiles and sprites. Which is something I my self enjoy exporing when planning how to create my world.

I my self am planning to design a mega-vault of sorts for the story creation a FOT seems to offer a wider selection of some types of graphics but lacks in others. The way im planning it out now I would have to use more than JUST the Vault specific graphics, im already mixing some of the Robotic walls and BOS floors...
One thing I was sad to find lacking was the broken vault tiles from Fallout 2 specificaly. I mean, how can you create a vault with out damage from an earth quake or dynamite? or just flat out complete catastrophe?

Sence my Vault is going to have some damage from a major earth quake, which the player awakens to discover much work is needed to be done, I am considering to leave FOT behind and begin learning how to do Fallout 2 mapping. But shouldent it be possible to do some sort of graphics conversion? I dont think I could mix Fallout 2 wall tiles with FOT's own tiles, but it could in theory be possible to create say, a fot map that consists only of Fallout 2 vault tile sets...

But I am probably getting ahead of my self here, and should stick to just a generic discussion topic type question...
And that is just what your preference for Fallout world creation?
 
JADabandon said:
And I appologize if I end up cross posting in both the Fallout modding and FOT modding forums
Click to expand...
Don't! We can move the thread if need be, but don't cross post.

JADabandon said:
But when a person is planning in general to make a Fallout map or series of maps as part of a campaign of sorts. Where does their prefrence lay? Would they create a Fallout 2 map? Is there many reasons for creating a Fallout 1 map vs. a Fallout 2 map? Or would they prefer to create maps or a campaign using Fallout Tactics?
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Depends on the mapper's skills, and what you want to do. Personally I think it's easier to make a map in FO2 (a good looking map that is) you don't have to worry about overlapping tiles, multiple levels and occlusion and FO2 maps don't need as much detail work to make them look good. But if you're not a scripter you might prefer FOT as the triggers are gui based, no compiling needed.

Though really it comes down to what you want to do, if you want to do an rpg then you are better off using the rpg engine. FOT doesn't have a speech tree, and while scripting is a lot easier it's a lot more limited as to what you can do.

JADabandon said:
One thing I was sad to find lacking was the broken vault tiles from Fallout 2 specificaly. I mean, how can you create a vault with out damage from an earth quake or dynamite? or just flat out complete catastrophe?
Click to expand...
There are custom tiles, Ed the Monkey made a Vault 15 tileset, and there were broken floor tiles in the game.

I did a couple of generic vault maps so it's possible to make a fair facsimile of some of the rpg areas.

JADabandon said:
But shouldent it be possible to do some sort of graphics conversion? I dont think I could mix Fallout 2 wall tiles with FOT's own tiles, but it could in theory be possible to create say, a fot map that consists only of Fallout 2 vault tile sets...
Click to expand...
FO2 tiles are a different scale and perspective, while some tiles can be converted making a map out of just FO2 tiles would cause problems. The graphics wouldn't fit in FOT's tile bounding boxes properly and you'd have a lot of invisible barriers.

Basically if you can script, want a speech tree and a lot of scripting options go with the FO2 mapper or Fife.

If your story is combat heavy and rpg lite, or you don't know how to script and don't mind doing a lot of donkey work with tiling go with FT Tools.
 
Actually you can do speech trees in FOT.

I think the FO2 engine is just too old to use, it hurts my eyes anymore.
It's like you can see every pixel...

The FOT editor is way limited ( as there is no speechcraft skill, so you have to base any trigger off another skill..usually charisma)
And its way limited in several other aspects, but I am percivering.

...and it is prettier than FO1 and FO2...

Peace
 
ogreb said:
Actually you can do speech trees in FOT.
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I never said there aren't work arounds, just that there isn't a speech tree. The work arounds can get rather complicated, just to do a simple question and answer, sometimes.

ogreb said:
I think the FO2 engine is just too old to use, it hurts my eyes anymore.
It's like you can see every pixel...

...and it is prettier than FO1 and FO2...
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You graphics whore you! :lol: :roll:
 
Yeah...I'm a little whore!

But I'm serious about it hurting my eyes...they are not as forgiving as they used to be.

I had thought about using the Silent Storm engine to make a Falloutish mod ( would have been cool!)

But way...way too much work..you'd almost have to reverse engineer it.

SS was a cool game...Hammer and Sickle ( how can I put this politely?) SUKKED!!!! What a waste!

Time to take my graphic whoring butt back to work on Scions of the Waste!

Peace!!
 
ogreb said:
I had thought about using the Silent Storm engine to make a Falloutish mod ( would have been cool!)

But way...way too much work..you'd almost have to reverse engineer it.
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Someone was working on a Fallout inspired mod, again it depends on what you want to do and how many compromises you are willing to make.

ogreb said:
SS was a cool game...Hammer and Sickle ( how can I put this politely?) SUKKED!!!! What a waste!
Click to expand...
Silent Storm's dialogue system works better with short sharp speeches. I got bored clicking next in the opening missions of the original game, when I tried out the H&S demo well by the time I'd finished clicking next to get to the end of the opening scene I uninstalled the demo without actually playing the rest.
 
So your a text whore... wait !....that would be a speech whore!
I know what you mean though...

Thats why I'm using alot of speech in my campaign, I already have 23 different voiceovers ( I think thats more than Tactics)
I probabaly will not use them all...some are pretty bad.

I just put up a notice at the local natural foods store and over the last year I've gotten alot of people come over to try out...for nothing!( I did have to buy a 40 for a local, but he has a real cool sounding voice)

I live in a real artistic/hippy/wicca kind of town and since I live real close to the store...it's been cool and real easy, and I've met some interesting people.


This going to be a cool campaign...

If I ever get done....I guess I shouldn't be so anal in detail.
 
I have nothing against lot's of text, but when it's doled out a couple of sentances at a time and you have to keep pressing next... It gets very old very fast.

Bad sound files are better than no sound files, comparing mods that have no voice overs to those with (even really poor one's). Just makes so much difference to the atmosphere.
 
The flyer is still up and it will be months before I get done.
So I'm hoping that I'll get more...

I'll probably even ask the forum for sound bites...


Glad I don't have to work anymore...I can spend all my time on this now.

It'll be my gift to the post apocalyptic world....if I don't die first.
 
Campaign and stuff

Yea im still messing around with FOT editor, trying to fit in time to learn the work arounds and trying to piece together my maps with some sort of story elements to guide the player along.

I think I am going to end up anal about detail, right now its my dream to make a campaign built around a super vault. I was even begin to ponder, while I was doodling my layout and design for my vault, if one could replace the over world map, say with the map of a vault it self? Werent both the FO1/2 and Tactics over world maps more or less allow free travel over the terrian, but blocked travel over water regions? If one went crazzy with world maps, you could maby place that impassiable region along the borders of the vault or other mega structure.... and what would be the places of interest, could be diferent important locations along your vault.

And if you had a hostile portion of the vault, say critters, rebels, what ever monsters, with FOT I understand you can place a region to spawn random encounters, I wonder if you could also set the chance for the random encounter pretty high for that hostility region. Or if you say had a crazzy old hermit hiding out in your vault, you could set the chance lower...

I havent had a chance to test this with the FOT game, but if you say on your first mission, took off to where the future missions take place, would you stumble upon them, the way you would with FO1/2? IE: the over ambitious hero heading straight off to Navaro, with out having been to San Fransico first, or any ware else for that matter...
 
You can import any image you like to create your world map but you can't block off areas with the released tool set.

Encounter chance is totally editable, and random encounters can be turned on or off as you wish. You can have them all on from the start or as the story progresses.
 
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