Getting Immersion from a FPP

[Grey_Wolf]

Hmmm... i posted something 'similar' to this a time ago. Thought i'd give it a go again today. I don't like the getting rid of the 'traditional' style of gameplay of FO, but i want it left an option. FPP(First Person Perspective) is to be an extra feature to this new game, and i want to discuss ideas on how to make it work for the next evolution in FO. Even if this new version of FO, F3, is a bust. I want to talk of future ways to still make it AS immersive, or even more so, as FO1/2.

Here are some ideas. If you have better ones (and not having a FPP aspect to the game at all, is not really wanted), please post it, and we'll have a discussion about it.

Anyways, here's 'basically' what i posted last time. Lets see if anyone has better ways to improve upon them:

Weaponry and Skills:
if the person has only 10% in their Small arms skills, (or w/e).
- Make the sights larger and the player have bad accuracy. This way it will be more realistic, and they will have to "evolve" their weaponry skills in order for them to get more accuracy.
-This also applies to things like Throwing and Unarmed (although having them break their wrist most of the time they do land a strike would be good and humorous too ^^ lol)

- No strength? don't let them use it. just like the other fallouts did.

Walking and Agility:
if the person picks 1 agility (so they can cram the rest into charm or int. so they can FPS the whole thing) then:
- Make them have a slight wobble when they walk (back and forth, left right, and others! but do it at random)
- if they run? hahah make them stagger around uncontrollably(or fall!!! Mr. Green)
- This will get rid of all the people who just want to "FPS" and beat the game. or ex CS players who just want to do the running knife tactics).

limit their movement and rate of fire. There's no need to wobble a player back and forth.

Meh, i like this one better. But will leave my flawed option up for comparison


I have never seen anyone beat FO with 1 Perception (who didn't hack the bloody thing), so if a person who plays this game as a FPS and not as a FPPCRPG/CRPG, should have some disadvantages, is what i'm saying. So if you have a better way. Please do say.

Perception:
- If the person has terrible perception (like 3 or lower) give them fog of war in FPP! or make stuff in the distance blurry.
-or an option you can have is something like what was done in Fallout Tactics. Where if your perception is shat, then you can't really 'find' the enemy, until they are right on you. Or the enemies "sneak" is heightened by your lack of perception.

The rest of the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. list pretty much take care of themselves. And i'm sure Bethesda has the Endurance thing worked out.

As for the weapons themselves:
- if the person has a low firearms score, if/when the weapon jams on them (i don't know if F3 will have that happening). DON'T LET THEM CLEAR IT!
- Hell most people in REAL life who have never fired a weapon do not know how to clear a jam. So why should some1 with a low weapons skill have that? Make them put it into storage until they have better skills.
- OR! let them keep trying to fire it! if they have Luck at/below lvl 5, then it will almost always blow up on them, causing destruction to the gun, and blindness/Damage to the player. Luck above 5 will have a higher chance of clearing the jam.

Throwing:
- if it's below 10% have them throw and "drop" the grenade behind themselves. A some what of 'critical failure.'
-And yes, if you can throw in the general direction of something, you pretty much can throw anything. But if you are going to use that argument, then you pretty much are saying that the thrown weapons perk, has really no point in the FO universe.

Unarmed/Melee:
- Seriously. Most people who have never fought, usually wind up hurting themselves their 1st time. Why should here be any different?
- If they have a low skill in these 2, make them break their wrist (Cripple), and not be able to use them in FPP. or they fall down ^^

Sneak:
- If the person has terrible Sneaking skills. Make them noisy, or go at a snails pace
- But if anything, just make it similar to the old Fallouts. If they have terrible sneak, it's just damn hard to do.

Outdoorsman: Hmmm... If this is a factor in F3. Make all herbs, Xander root, or etc... look like grass till u get better at it, then u'll start to know what to look for then the herbs will look like herbs again!

Well thats my spiel. If anyone has any better ideas, or wants to add on, do so!
Btw, i'm new to the forums, but have played FO since it came out, and have wandered around here for a long ass time.



-EDIT- Btw, i will be editing this post with (what i consider) options to improve the FPP aspects of a future FO game, and credit will be given.

 

[Sorrow]

Make a special hardware that is connected to players brain, which allows him/her to immerse him/herself into a game world. It would allow player to experience playing a FPP game where the protagonist isn't a cripple.

 

[Vault 69er]

Make a special hardware that is connected to players brain, which allows him/her to immerse him/herself into a game world. It would allow player to experience playing a FPP game where the protagonist isn't a cripple.

They tried that with the whole VR trend in the early 90's.
Never took off due to being crap.

 

[Sorrow]

They tried that with the whole VR trend in the early 90's.
Never took off due to being crap.

I played doom with a VR helmet once - it was a pretty interesting experience. I think that the main problem was that VR hardware was horribly expensive.
Anyway, I didn't mean VR like that in my post. I wast talking about Matrix .

 

[Stag]

The Matrix would suck, you would die.

 

[Sorrow]

It would allow us to life in "immershun"-addicts-free world .

 

[Grey_Wolf]

It would allow us to life in "immershun"-addicts-free world

*sigh* FO was developed off a PnP game. A game type that tries for immersion of the person so you are not just playing a simple "candy land" board game. But i still consider PnP, and DnD style games to be board games. FO evolved into a CRPG, so that you could play the game, without all the pen and paper, and have a look and feel of actually being where u are 'imagining' you were at in the PnP board game.

Anyways.

Matrix? All right, when it comes to jabbing a metal spike in the back of my brain to play a simple computer game (Leaving my real body to atrophy), i'm just going to quit playing computer games, and focus on my work, whilst shaking my head at the people who do continue to play. ("I KNOW KUNG FOO!" ... no you don't, u just THINK u do.)

Anyways, future is future, lets talk about a way to make a "good" FPP FO computer game (also including the regular way to play FO that we all know and love, as an option), for the time being.

If it evolves into a "How to make Fallout a kickass VR game" from there, fine. But till then, i'd like to gather some opinions and ideas of how to make the FPP aspects of a FPP-CRPG FO game work, and what desirables should be added.

 

[Sander]

Please stop trying to annoy the player and actually implement some P&P rules. Wobbling back and forth is not 'immersive', 'fun' or even realistic; it's simply annoying.
Why you insist on adding annoying, arcade elements to a game that's not even about that is completely beyond me.

Here, try this: roleplaying is *not* about annoying the player, it's about limiting the *character*'s options by his statistics.

 

[Grey_Wolf]

Please stop trying to annoy the player and actually implement some P&P rules. Wobbling back and forth is not 'immersive', 'fun' or even realistic; it's simply annoying.
Why you insist on adding annoying, arcade elements to a game that's not even about that is completely beyond me.

Here, try this: roleplaying is *not* about annoying the player, it's about limiting the *character*'s options by his statistics.

Okay, fine, good point. Then how do you vote to balance the Agility of the player?

Have a set amount of points, automatically allocated to the Agility position at the beginning? or perhaps when u switch to FPP mode, your allocation of Agility points becomes somewhat "Shifted?"
Taking away from strength perhaps.

I don't mind criticism of 'my' ideas, just as long as you find a suitable replacement to them.

 

[Sander]

Okay, fine, good point. Then how do you vote to balance the Agility of the player?

Have a turn-based system. Lacking that, limit their movement and rate of fire. There's no need to wobble a player back and forth.

I don't mind criticism of 'my' ideas, just as long as you find a suitable replacement to them.

This is a pretty stupid position to take. Criticism is equally valid regardless of any alternatives offered.

 

[Grey_Wolf]

Yet you still offered one. Thanks for that at the least

Criticism is equally valid regardless of any alternatives offered.

Not 'constructive' criticism, and it's not always valid.
I was talking of ways to 'improve' a possible FPP aspect of a future game of FO. And that 'no option' was really not wanted. So technically, it isn't valid then.

 

[Per]

Criticism is equally valid regardless of any alternatives offered.

Not 'constructive' criticism, and it's not always valid.

More often than not, "constructive criticism" is a bullshit euphemism for "saying only nice things". Criticism is criticism, suggestions are suggestions, and happy cat is happy.

 

[Grey_Wolf]

Well i didn't mean it as "saying only nice"
The 1st part of his statement/retort to me was actually very constructive. It gave a plausible alternative to my idea, whilst also debunking it.
And i consider that constructive criticism. Even though it was a bit more 'nicely' put, than his other "wobblies/drunk chars are bad" statements.
His 2nd criticism was not valid, or constructive.
Is all i am saying.

 

[Sander]

His 2nd criticism was not valid

And why wasn't it, pray tell?
Criticism doesn't have to be constructive to be valid, and dismissing criticism just because it isn't constructive is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Grey_Wolf]

Criticism doesn't have to be constructive to be valid, and dismissing criticism just because it isn't constructive is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm not dismissing it as invalid because it's not constructive, i'm dismissing it because of this:

If you have better ones (and not having a FPP aspect to the game at all, is not really wanted), please post it, and we'll have a discussion about it.

You really gave no other option than to just remove it, making FPP overly favorable, or non-existent. Therefore, your second statement, was nothing more than just a "remove it" so seeing as how that kind of view is 'unwanted' it is not valid.

Seein as how i want more interesting ideas on how to make a FPP possible, lets not discuss matters of grammar and syntax and instead get some more ideas on how to make a good FPP-CRPG FO.

 

[knightablaze]

"A time ago" ??? Wasn't it just last week?!?

Um...anyways. I almost agree with how they're going to handle First Person combat without VATS. It's just a matter of point and click, or steer and pull for those of us on console. If your cursor is over the enemy it'll do all the stat checks before deciding if you hit the creature.

That's one aspect I think that could work. Though could be disconcerting at first.

 

[Grey_Wolf]

"A time ago" ??? Wasn't it just last week?!?

haha, isn't a week ago a period of time?
Anyways enough nit-picking on grammar and syntax.

Console.... *shudder* Noo.... I do not like Comp games on console.

If your cursor is over the enemy it'll do all the stat checks before deciding if you hit the creature.

cool.


Hahaha, btw, i like your sig.

Vegetarian, n. indian word for bad hunter

 

[P-Funk]

The expanded crosshair is the only option that sounds natural to me. And very low skills would have no crosshair. If the crosshair is normal and you just miss, that is so counterintuitive as to significantly decrease the immershun.

And the Op is right... It is very difficult to get an answer other than "No. Just no. Make the game the way it used to be" on this board. We all want the old Fallout, but that doesn't mean useful discussions on potential positives can't be had.

 

[GhostWhoTalks]

If the game were truly made into first person perspective, then why even have a crosshair? Why not force players to use a gun-sight and their lack of skill/agility attribute causes the gun to wobble more?

This avenue of thought requires hard and fast lines be drawn by the designers. While the aiming of a weapon is "player" done but with character aid, what would you do with "surgery?" Would you require the player to hold the hand steady or would you just automate the process and add small bonuses from perception, agility, and intelligence?

Interactivity is a double-edged sword. In small amounts when used in areas where players can be expected to have fundamental ability to perform whatever function you demand in game, it's alright. But too much interactivity and you can leave slower, less dextrous, less knowledgeable players behind, essentially alienating them.

 

[Jidai Geki]

Bethsoft have a great opportunity to try to adapt the SPECIAL system to FPP real-time. If they pulled it off in an imaginative way, e.g. ensuring that a low perception really has an effect on the player's abilities in combat, then it will make for a very interesting game.

I like the idea that a character's vision be compromised if they have a low PE, but blurring the entire screen would get tiresome. Blurring distant objects to some extent would be a better solution to this problem. Having a slight swaying effect on targeting à la Splinter Cell's sniper mode might be a good idea too.

Things like Strength and Endurance are easily implemented in FP by altering mêlée damage and HP's. Ditto Charisma, since- what- it really makes a difference in is bartering and dialogue, no?

Agility- just make the player slower, make their jumps etc. smaller and their reload rate worse.