God Pill

welsh

Junkmaster
Now here's an interesting idea.

Let's take the religious fundamentalists and give them psychedelic drugs.

Usually the religious fanatics that are pretty conservative get their high by preaching moral superiority and condemnation on the morally wicked.

Meanwhile the religious fanatics who preach religion as a means for universal love and understand get their high by.... well.. getting high.

Now what if the conservatives started getting high?

Would they become cooler? Or would their hallucinatory experiences make them bigger assholes? Would they see Jesus as a righteous dude or would they see hell as more of the cover of an Iron Maiden cover?

(Note - there might be those who think my depiction of religious conservative fanatics as righteous assholes to be unwarranted. Interestingly enough, most of those who object to that depiction are, in fact, fanatical religious conservatives. Ironic? I don't think so).

Psychedelic drugs

The God pill
Jul 13th 2006
From The Economist print edition

Hallucinogens induce lasting spiritual highs in the religious

ONE June night in Mexico in 1955, Gordon Wasson, a vice-president of J.P. Morgan, became one of the first outsiders to eat what the Aztecs called teonanácatl, the flesh of the gods. Actually, it is the flesh of a fungus, and it soon became known to hippies as the magic mushroom. But, whereas the flower children of the 1960s and their descendants gobbled the hallucinogenic fungi in search of a good time, the Aztecs had a deeper purpose. They used the mushrooms in religious ceremonies for healing, divination and communing with the spirit world.

Now a study led by Roland Griffiths of Johns Hopkins University, and published this week in Psychopharmacology, has shown that psilocybin—the active component in magic mushrooms—does indeed induce mental states akin to the highest religious experiences. Moreover, it has lasting positive effects on those who take it.

Dude... like, let's get religious and holy shit, so fucked up!

Experiments involving drugs of any kind need to have a control—that is, an otherwise identical experiment in which something other than the drug is administered—to check that any effects are caused by the drug and not something else. Ideally, neither experimental subjects nor researchers should know who is in the control group, but for experiments involving psychedelic drugs this is difficult, because it quickly becomes apparent who is high and who is not.

I could see someone trying this in an Assembly's of God meeting, because those folks come in all hyper for religion.

Wait a second, doesn't that interfere with our freedom of religion?

(It doesn't- that is if you happen to be an Indian trying to smoke peyote, but its worth a try).

For his control, Dr Griffiths decided to use methylphenidate hydrochloride, otherwise known as Ritalin, a drug that calms hyperactive children. On one of two occasions, he gave 36 volunteers who had never taken hallucinogenic drugs either psilocybin or Ritalin, swapping the drugs on the second occasion. The choice of Ritalin was inspired. Neither the volunteers nor the experimenters could say reliably which drug was being administered on which occasion.

A close eye was kept on the volunteers for eight hours after the drugs were given, to check all was well. They were then asked about their experience. Two-thirds of the participants, who were mostly middle-aged college graduates, ranked being given psilocybin as either the best or in the top five best experiences of their lives—on a par with the birth of a first child. They described feeling peace, intense happiness and a sense of the unity of all things.

Could these possibly be flashback experiences? Old highs coming back to haunt?

The participants were no strangers to spiritual highs. Almost all engaged at least monthly in religious or spiritual activities such as prayer or attending religious services, and were selected for participation in the trial on this basis. Yet two months after the trial, 79% of them reported moderately or greatly increased well-being or satisfaction. Their positive changes in attitudes and behaviour were confirmed by independent assessments made by friends and family.

Why this should be is not yet well understood. Psilocybin is thought to work by mimicking serotonin. This is one of the messenger molecules that carry signals between nerve cells in the brain, and it is known to influence mood. But there has been little research of late. Clinical studies using psilocybin and other hallucinogens were halted when recreational use of the drugs took off. They have only just resumed after a four-decade hiatus.

Dr Griffiths and his colleagues argue that the mood-lifting effects of hallucinogens might be used to treat drug and alcohol addiction. Psilocybin itself is not addictive, although they recommend that its availability should continue to be limited. Psychedelic drugs could even be used to probe the basis of consciousness, according to Solomon Snyder, one of Dr Griffith's colleagues. Dr Snyder believes that investigation of such drugs could help scientists understand the molecular changes in the brain that underlie religious experiences.

Back in the 1950s, Gordon Wasson spent years gaining the trust of Amerindians who had continued the religious traditions of their pre-Columbian ancestors. Eventually he was allowed to partake of the mushroom. His experience, from which he said he emerged awestruck, started a short period of study that ended prematurely because of the mushroom's widespread recreational use. By showing it is possible to conduct such research responsibly, Dr Griffiths has opened the door for further work to be done on the properties of psychedelic drugs.

Or the narcotic effect of religion?
 
Now I'm curious about something. They say the drug is not addictive and yet most people who took it rated it as one of the greatest experiences in their entire life. Wouldn't people feel like they're missing something after trying it and constantly want to relive that experience?

It sounds pretty damned cool though. I think I need to start making myself some Indian friends. And to think I benefit long term too... not a bad deal if I do say so myself.
 
It depends on the culture that develops around the drug. If it's presented as a life-affirming experience or as a means of metaphysical use as opposed to recreational, then the chance of substance reliance becomes severely reduced.

I mean, people don't get addicted to making babies because the birth of their child was so awesome, right?

I mean, Salvea is legal in most states, but who is it popular with? Hippies. The New Age crowd digs the stuff because it's a vehicle for going on a spirit journey, or some of that other Native American spirit crap.

I've actually been interested in trying it for just such a purpose.
 
SimpleMinded said:
Now I'm curious about something. They say the drug is not addictive and yet most people who took it rated it as one of the greatest experiences in their entire life. Wouldn't people feel like they're missing something after trying it and constantly want to relive that experience?
Yes, that's the difference between physical and mental addiction.
Most drugs are physically addictive (eg. alcohol, cocaine, heroine, tobacco, caffeine), some aren't (marijuana, these mushrooms).

Now, a physical addiction makes the body itself addicted, which means that the body will start to ask for more of the drug, and that's what makes for withdrawal symptoms. This is also one of the reasons why people will still do drugs when they've become so resistant that they have barely any effect on them.

A mental addiction, however, is something seperate. Almost anything is mentally addictive, reading, watching TV, playing games, reading forums, and of course, almost all drugs.
A mental addiction is hence also really dependant on the person, and is a very different thing to beat. Some find it really easy (or basically don't get addicted at all), others find it almost impossible.
It sounds pretty damned cool though. I think I need to start making myself some Indian friends. And to think I benefit long term too... not a bad deal if I do say so myself.
I'd think you can get one in any random hippie-shop. 'Shrooms and all.
 
You can get physically addicted to almost anything, if you fuck up.

Unless it acts toxic before your body becomes reliant. In that case you just die.

It's a lot easier to get mentally addicted to shit, tho. Most alcoholics aren't THAT reliant physically (as in, the physical reliance only shows in discomfort, not in physical damage through withdrawl), but are habitual drinkers.

Same goes for many smokers.

If withdrawl doesn't cause significant physical problems, the mental part is usually what makes people STAY addicted. And breaking a habbit can be really difficult.

Theoretically you could overcome addiction caused by weak physical reliance (i.e. one which can be overcome with substitutes or can be ignored without life-threatening consequences) by just ignoring it, but it's the mental addiction (or habit) that will win you over whenever you try to break it.

Overcoming habitual consumption is what all those spiritual sects like AA are about anyway. The idea is that you keep yourself busy (in this case, by becoming deeply involved with religious things) in order to avoid falling back, which is most likely to happen when you become idle and your mind wanders off.

Keeping yourself busy can help ignoring a lot of other things too. The only problem is that the ignored issues may come back whenever you NEED to become idle (such as, when you try to sleep but aren't so physically weakened that you just pass out or die) and you'll easily turn to drugs (sleeping pills, anti-depressants, et al.) to help you stop worrying in situations where idling can not be avoided.

Also, of course, the whole shit may cause long-term effects like burnout, which are guaranteed to ruin your life, at least temporarily.

Or you may suddenly decide to become involved with politics and start invading other countries for no sane reason like certain US presidents.

So, uhm, yeah, don't try to "overcome" addictions by substituting them with something else, even if it seems to be something inherently productive.
 
Ashmo said:
You can get physically addicted to almost anything, if you fuck up.
No you can't:
Medline Encyclopedia said:
Physical dependence on a substance (needing a drug to function) is not necessary or sufficient to define addiction. There are some substances that don't cause addiction but do cause physical dependence (for example, some blood pressure medications) and substances that cause addiction but not classic physical dependence (cocaine withdrawal, for example, doesn't have symptoms like vomiting and chills; it is mainly characterized by depression).
Heh, apparently I was wrong about Cocaine being physically addictive. Figures.

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_dependence
 
Sander said:
No you can't

Okay, so you can't. But let's just say that you can get physically addicted and/or dependent on some level by nearly anything that does not kill you first.

Look how I nicely avoid any possibility of my statement being laid out as false by requring the substance that could disprove it not to be deadly under any circumstances at all.

The Goddess Prevails.
 
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