Hollywood vs Silicon Valley (Copyright vs File sharing)

welsh

Junkmaster
We've had this issue raised a few times and have heard the arguments on both sides-

Time to rehash-

Is the failure of the Entertainment industry to adapt to changes in the internet making filesharing more prolific, hurting the industry?

Isn't this symptomatic of an industry with big problems? Are the days of buying dieing to the possibilities of filesharing?

Your thoughts?

Grokster and StreamCast face the music

Mar 24th 2005
From The Economist Global Agenda

The entertainment industry is taking its battle against illegal downloading to America’s Supreme Court. But attacking the technology behind file-sharing could stifle innovation without tackling the industry’s long-term problems

THE music business should have stuck by Thomas Edison’s technology if it wanted to avoid the threat of piracy. His wax cylinders could record a performance but could not be reproduced; that became possible only with the invention of the flat-disc record some years later. On Tuesday March 29th, America’s Supreme Court will begin to hear testimony in a case brought by the big entertainment companies that is intended to stop the illegal downloading of copyright-protected music and film. The industry’s target is the peer-to-peer (P2P) technology that allows the swapping of files directly over the internet. The defendants in the case are two firms that make file-sharing software: StreamCast Networks and Grokster.

The entertainment business has long been susceptible to copyright infringement—and it has usually blamed the electronics industry. The music industry first cried foul at the introduction of the cassette-tape recorder in the late 1960s. More recently, the digitisation of music has allowed “burning” of music tracks on to CDs with the help of a computer. The latest threat to the record companies is a copying technique of even greater speed, ease and scope. Every day some 4m Americans swap music files over the internet, according to figures from Pew, an independent research organisation. And now the swapping of new films online is gaining ground too, to the chagrin of the movie industry.

This comes at a particularly bad time for the music industry, which is struggling to reverse a long-term decline. According to the IFPI, a recording-industry umbrella group, worldwide music sales plunged in value by 22% in the five years to 2003—a drop of over $6 billion. In 2004, sales fell by 1.3%, though that decline looks less bad when revenue from legal digital downloads is added in. The music industry largely blames illegal file-sharers for its ills, noting that CD sales are dipping steeply in countries where broadband internet access is growing fast.

Some suggest that the latest attempt to curb illicit file-swapping—legal action against the technology that drives P2P networks—threatens the future of innovation. P2P software allows computers to talk to others running the same software without having to use intermediaries. Grokster and StreamCast argue that they are not able to control the use to which their software is put, whether it be searching, downloading or sharing.

In court, the two software firms will no doubt cite the case of Sony’s Betamax technology as a precedent. The home video-recording system, which was eventually superseded by VHS, faced a suit in 1984 in which Disney and Universal called for its ban. The entertainment firms feared that the ability to record on to video would allow considerable infringement of their copyright. America’s Supreme Court ruled that Sony was not liable because the equipment had “substantial” uses other than infringement, such as the recording of TV programmes for later viewing.

Similarly, the software produced by StreamCast and Grokster has significant non-infringing uses, such as sharing music that is not copyright-protected and internet-routed phone calls. In fact, some make the case that P2P technology could make the internet more robust and secure by avoiding the use of centralised servers, and that the entertainment companies’ lawsuit is thus harmful to the web as a whole.

Napster, the first and best-known of the file-sharing businesses, was killed off by the music industry in 2001. Because it used central servers and so had the ability to block users who broke copyright laws, a judge issued an injunction ordering Napster to shut its servers down. At the time, it boasted some 14m users. Since then, the industry has ramped up action against file-sharing and widened its attack by going after individual downloaders as well.

At present, some 8,000 individuals around the world face lawsuits for illegal file-sharing. The industry has backed up its legal moves with a publicity offensive aimed at convincing the public that unauthorised downloading is theft. As well as cinema- and TV-advertising campaigns, 45m instant messages have gone out to users of P2P services, warning them to stop putting copyrighted material on the internet. America’s Department of Justice has weighed in too, even suggesting that P2P services could be used to support terrorism. Others have muttered darkly that the technology is a conduit for illegal pornography.

There are some signs that these measures are working: surveys suggest that internet users are becoming more wary of illegal file-sharing, for instance. However, according to the IFPI’s own figures, the number of unauthorised music files on the web has grown in recent months after falling sharply in the first half of 2004 (see chart). The number of users is also up, with 8.6m offering illegal files compared with 6.2m a year ago.

The music business has employed other defensive measures. Apart from a round of mergers and cost-cutting over recent years, the industry has tried to embrace legal downloading. Napster itself was reborn as a legal downloading service. And in 2004, according to the IFPI, the number of legal download sites increased four-fold to 230 and the number of legal downloads to over 200m (a figure that could double in 2005, according to forecasts). Apple’s iTunes, the largest legal download catalogue, has over 1m songs available and handles over 1m downloads a day.

But even if the entertainment business manages to coax more users into paying for legal downloads and succeeds in court against Grokster and StreamCast, its problems are unlikely to go away. True, a Supreme Court ruling in the industry’s favour would put paid to other P2P services. But it is not clear that curbing illegal downloading will translate into extra sales for the music business. A rush into legal downloading would hardly be good for sales of CDs: some cannibalisation is inevitable. And perhaps the decline in global sales is indicative of a far greater problem for the music industry—consumers simply think that many of its products are just not worth paying for.

More on this from npr- http://www.npr.org/templates/story/...ollywood Square off in File-Sharing Case[/url
 
No matter what anyone does, there will be a way to
1. Break into files that are protected.
2. Distribute files over the internet.

There are always ways to hide where no one can find you and trade things off. P2P works so well with that, but that article is right, using P2P is one of the most secure devices/protocols (whatever you want to call it) ever made, giving people and businesses a way to send information safely.
 
The internet is a good way to get media which is technically copyright, but you can't get any other way. Like Abandonware, for example.
 
P2P is a very basic technology, and outlawing it is simply bullshit. In fact, if P2P-technology would get outlawed, Windows would have to be outlawed, because, after all, I can use Windows File Sharing on a network to exchange files illegally.

Okay, so that's a bt of a far-fetched example, but perhaps it helps to illustrate how stupid it would be to deny P2P-technology the right of existence. Bittorrent, fsr instance, is being used more and more for legal purposes: to distribute downloads that woul dotherwsie cost too much bandwidth, such as Linux-distributions, software updates, Open Source projects and other such things.

The music industry will soon be forced to realise that the prices they are asking for their music are too high, and that Apple and other companies distributing music for low prices on-line are costing them a lot of sales. Their business-models may no longer be viable.
 
I don't think it's right that people download entire albums/games/movies/programs, etc. for free. Artists and companies put alot of time, effort and creativity into making products, and stealing them outright is just wrong.

On the other hand, P2P sharing is great for other things, like abandonward as was mentioned before.

There are also alot of garbage products put out there and hyped up to be great works of art, and there's really no way to tell what's what until you actually buy them. Take music for example: on more than one instance, a band will release one or two singles on the radio that are decent, but the rest of the album is crap and sounds nothing like the singles.

I used to use file sharing to download a few other songs off that album that weren't off the radio. If I liked it, then I'd buy the album. If I didn't, then I wouldn't. I also wouldn't waste my time downloading the rest of the crap off the album.

While this is considered illegal because I'm downloading copyrighted music, I'm also protecting myself from getting ripped off by buying a shabby and deceptive product. I realize not many people use the programs the way I do and they do get entire products for free, but that's where personal resposibility come in.

I'd say P2P programs are a double- edged sword, and some revisions need to made to the law regarding their use.
 
Ok, but isn't this in part the fault of the communities.

I mean it's a no brainer. If you can get something for free, you'll do it.

Even if there is a penalty, if few people are penalized more people will try it.

This is typical collective action problem stuff that supports large numbers of free riders. THat the industry misses it, and continues to miss it, is just stupidity and the failure to innovate.

The industry is just being stupid by not evolving to meet the challenge. The internet has changed the way we acquire art, maybe the industry has to think of new ways to make a profit off that art.
 
the biggest reason people pirate media is because they feel that to buy it legally is too expensive to justfiy what they bought.

i want to go out and buy a cd for 16+ $ ? i would rather spend some time/effort and get it free.

that same CD for 7-9$ ? most likely it wouldnt be worth my time and possible security for my computer to use P2P software to get it free.

a DVD for 25-35$ depending on the dvd/length/features? i would rather get high-speed cable/dsl and spend a few hours and download it. that same DVD for 15-18$ with all the features and extended version? i would rather buy it.
 
Sander is right. There was an article on /. a few weeks ago. Some PhD professor at a university wrote a filesharing program in 15 lines of code to show that its impossible to ban them. Using the program you can send files between users. Same concept.

Tiny P2P
 
I think it's absurd to justify stealing entertainment under the guise of overpriced commodity. Firstly, no one is entitled to a hollywood movie. It's not something without which functioning in modern society would be exceedingly difficult. It's a luxery product whose neccesity the consumer must evaluate and balance cost with want. If we're going to be social revolutionaries here, why not jewelry or gold wristwatches? No, I don't believe media piracy is acceptable.

Most people say they pirate music because it's so expensive, but i disagree. I notice many casual pirates wasting money all the time. No, it's not about money at all. It's about the fact that people can get away with it, not only legally, but socially. There don't exist many preventative measures to stop the user level piracy of music, and further from that, stealing music from the internet won't stigmatize you from the rest of society. It's a perfectly "normal" thing to do. In fact, this lack of social stigma is the direct result of the lack of preventative and punitive measures related to online piracy.

I believe that regulative measures seriously restricting or banning P2P programs is not the way to go, however. As Sander points out, P2P is not used to just pirate media, but to facilitate distribution of software whose license does not exclude public distribution. P2P is like a roadway along which many vehicles travel-- shutting down the roads is retarded.

This issue is about more than just the entertainment industry vs the consumer; it's about the government's relationship to business. Does the government's obligation to protect businesses' products require them to introduce drastic regulation into the internet? Just how far can the government go to control transactions between two individuals? Will some kind of new internet custom's agency sprout up sniffing out illegal distribution? The answer to all these questions and more, inside... the Twilight Zone.
 
Exactly Marcus, and here is the rub-

Intel's lawyers did everything they could to weaken the company's pro-P2P stance with fluffy language, but the message came through in the end. Intel, like many vendors, is most afraid of Hollywood's quest to clamp down on any product that could potentially be used to infringe on a copyright.

ANd that's the rub.

I recently had a conversion with an old student who does some legal work with the movie industry. She told me that the big movie houses squelsh just about anything that might threatened a copyright. And since you can copyright ideas before they become books, lots of good ideas get crushed before they can actually be done.

Even if you come up with something worthwhile, it can be bought out and kept off the market thereby removing competition.

Copyrights were made so that artists can profti from their art, so that the time they spent on developing that art is compensated. But now copyrights may be used to reduce innovation and new ideas.

That blows.

Ok more on this- audio-
Supreme file trial
 
It's not just P2P programs that's hurting the movie industry either.

I was at work today doing inventory for a Tedeschi's up in Boston (Tedeschi's is a convenient store, by the way) and this Chinese guy comes up to me and asks if I want any new movies. I didn't buy any, but took a quick look at them. I saw The Ring Two and one of the shitty new Ashton Kutcher movies; they were real recent in other words.

Bootlegging and copying were going on long before P2P programs were widely available. I personally consider myself a collector of movies, music, games, etc. as well as a fan, so I'd rather have official, high quality versions of this stuff. Some people just don't care, and they're going to get illegal versions of entertainment one way or another.
 
Here's a good example of my stance on the issue.

In DAC, there's a thread that features a game called Moonbase Commander. I downloaded the demo from the game site and tried it out. It turned out to be one of those games that’s quite simple, and deliciously addictive/fun because of it's simplicity.

The thing is, I've never seen it in a store, and the original posted said that he got it for $10 in what I assume was a bargain bin at "the local EB". I really want to play the full version. I can seem to get it any other way other than warez.

Would I be wrong in downloading it?
 
calculon00 said:
Would I be wrong in downloading it?

In my opinion: only if you didn't extensively try to buy it legally first. And I mean really try, not just take a quick look on EBay. Try finding out what company published it, seeing if they have some way to contact them, see if a game store near you can order it, etc.

If that fails, then you have my permission to download it.
 
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