I had almost forgotten about it...

Starseeker

Vault Senior Citizen
We must remember Tiananmen
CBC News Viewpoint | June 10, 2005

June 4 marked the 16th anniversary of the Tiananmen massacre and not one candle was lit in remembrance. At least not in the square.

While my head told me that I should stay far away from the square, my heart guaranteed my attendance. An eerie calm descended on the world's largest public square to mark the night the tanks rolled in under the order of the Communist government, but no flowers were laid.

Perhaps it was fitting the massive, and somewhat oppressive picture of Chairman Mao was dark that night. There were only a few floodlights lit, illuminating the hundred or so soldiers and police officers in attendance. I have never seen the square empty and dark before, especially not the Great Leader's picture.

I had two friends fly into Beijing to visit me that day so I thought it would be a good idea to take them with me to Tiananmen Square. Not just because it's a must-see in Beijing but because they provided me with the perfect cover for visiting on the anniversary.

Both my buddies are adventurers and politically-minded so they were willing participants in my clandestine operation. I was warned by a couple of Chinese colleagues to be especially careful of talking to strangers while near the square. They told me undercover police and government officials would be close by and listening if they could.

To give an example of the type of oppression they were talking about, a Canadian colleague of mine tried to walk past Zhao Ziyang's house after he died last year and an officer with near-perfect English demanded he show his passport and explain his presence in the area of the former president's home.

The officer yanked the camera out of my colleague's hand and started scrolling through the pictures he'd taken. Luckily, he never got to the ones he snapped off of the ousted leader's house. My friend is certain that if not for the help of a Chinese friend of his, who is also a Communist party member, he would have been detained.

The tension was thick as we approached the square from the subway. I was anxious, filling my head with crisis scenarios, but my two friends commented on it, as well. Both felt like they were being watched or followed.

We may have made the situation more than it was but we all agreed the tension, regardless, was there. It didn't help that dozens, if not hundreds, of armed soldiers and police officers were watching us closely to see what we were doing.

We stood across the darkened square, cracked a beer we brought with us, and quietly raised a toast to the people who died that night 16 years ago. It wasn't a fitting tribute and it wasn't a political statement. It was just a few Canadians saying, "We remember."

We returned to the square the next morning to see if everything had returned to business as usual. It had. Tourists snapped photos in front of Chairman Mao and The Great Hall of the People. Vendors hawked cheap merchandise to unsuspecting tourists and there were line-ups to visit Mao's tomb.

The vast majority of the people in the square were Chinese but there were many "Lao Wai," too, foreigners, who appearing oblivious to the slaughter 16 years before and of what those people died for.

It was depressing to think so many died and no one mourns for them. It seemed to me that June 4 has become China's worst-kept dirty little secret. The Chinese themselves know it happened but it's either too embarrassing or too painful to acknowledge. It's easier to wave to the camera in front of the Great Leader and turn a blind eye than to remember and ask why. But that really isn't the truth.

Some do remember. Some will never forget that many of their countrymen, people they never met or had even heard of before, died so they could enjoy a better life.

Some do remember because they have the photos of that bloody night they developed secretly. Some remember because they have the scars from tripping over the body of the person in front of them who fell trying to run away from the advancing tanks.

And while China's economy continues to boom and the standard of living for millions of citizens gets better daily under this Communist regime, the fallen will not fade into obscurity. So while no wreaths were laid and no candles publicly lit, those people did not die for nothing: some still remember and will never forget.

16 years.

I didn't think it was that long ago.

It's very ironic to read this right after the Global Fortune Forum and the Nobel Economists Forum. Nash was still in China not so long ago.

Interesting times ahead indeed.
 
Sixteen years already. I was in China shortly before the massacre, and I remember going to the square and seeing Mao (who looked rather stuffed). I remember there was a lot of optimism but also a lot of fear- more people were making money in the informal economy than the formal, but most people's attention was on construction which seemed to be happening everywhere.

When I watched the events unfold I kept thinking to myself - those people are screwed. The Chinese are going to massacre them. There is no way the government is going to give in.

Revolution in China starts in the country not the city.

A few months earlier there had been protests in Shanghai, with the Chinese responding hard there. The writing on the walls was pretty clear- the government would not tolerate it for long.

Interestingly, a similar thing occurred in Indonesia with the fall of Suharto. Students demonstrating realized they had gone too far to come back- if they gave up they would be rounded up individually and disappeared. But in Indonesia they won because the students and a lot of support (even from the military which in the end undertook a quiet coup).

Lesson there- if you protest in an authoritarian country, you need to know when to quit. I remember being very upset with the western media for suggesting big changes were on the way in China. Bullshit- those kids were doomed. But I think the reason they stayed wasn't because they believed the western media or that they were blind to the dangers- but that they knew they had gone too far to come back.
 
Notice that noone has heard from that guy who tried to stop those tankses on his own sionce his brave attempt.
 
Goaded?

The orders were quite clear, if anyone resists, to use a chinese phrase - "Kill without pardon".

Through out the demostration, the political infighting between the liberal and the conservatives within the party were extreme to say the least. And we know who won.

The hardliners decided to "Kill the chicken to warn the monkey".

Meaning, if you tried anything like that, the punishment will come swift and deadly.

Well, welsh, the tension was mounting for a while, and all it took was for something to happen. It did.

The situation is interesting right now, with flare ups here and there. But they seem to be able to handle it better now, since they have learned to use modern media to aid in their brain washing. I have met some college educated/master/phd level professional with an extremely warped and biased pov on the world.

Leaving the country seems to cure this. I have met many who have left and gone through the culture shock, so they were able to understand the world a little better.
 
Seems to me that the west has been aiding China in brainwashing lately...

With all the trade agreements and the opening up of Chinas huge market the west is pretending that China is becoming a happy place with true liberty and democracy just around the corner and all the transgressions are forgotten...

Now, some of you will mention the trouble Yankistan has had with China's exports recently, but that just proves my point; In the eyes of America China is no longer a bad place because it suffocates civil rights, brainwashes it's citizens and kills it's intellectuals, no, it's a bad place because it makes cheaper underwear...
 
DirtyDreamDesigner said:
Seems to me that the west has been aiding China in brainwashing lately...

With all the trade agreements and the opening up of Chinas huge market the west is pretending that China is becoming a happy place with true liberty and democracy just around the corner and all the transgressions are forgotten...


The "west" (let's keep it at the US) isn't doing anything of that sort. You need to understand how US foreign policy has consequently divided capitalism and democracy. Allende was overthrown not because of undemocratic conduct, but because of his nationalisation policy. Let's just say capitalism comes first, then democracy and human rights.
 
LOL

How about some more?

Welsh might like this -

Journalism the Chinese way
CBC News Viewpoint | May 24, 2005

I have a love-hate relationship working as a journalist in China. I am seeing different points of view and reporting on events I never imagined I would experience, but I also toss and turn in my sleep from feelings I may have sold my soul to the devil.

The recent Fortune magazine Global Forum is a perfect example of the tempest in my head. The Forum brought over 800 of the world’s most powerful business leaders together for three days in the most dynamic economy on the planet. It was a veritable cornucopia of stories.

I could have feasted at the trough for weeks with the level of newsmakers in that ballroom in Beijing’s Great Hall of the People. Instead I floundered in the doldrums of mediocrity and propaganda.

When I first learned of the forum I was giddy at the thought of the hard-hitting stories I would do. I begged the powers that be to let me cover the event. I was determined to show my Chinese colleagues what balanced Canadian journalism was.

I hear the mocking laughter when they watch CNN. I know they think western reporters are all flash and no substance but I was hell bent to change their minds. Little did I know that I was fighting a battle I could not win.

I should have known in the days leading up to the forum that I was in for a ride but I was trying to keep an open mind. My office had given me the OK to register and cover the big event but I was hitting roadblocks trying to actually register.

I was trying to go through Fortune magazine but I was politely told that domestic media had to register through an internal government office. OK, that's fine. I went through the proper channels and did manage to get my name on the official list of domestic reporters attending the forum.

However, when I showed up on the first day I was told I was excluded from actually attending any of the roundtable discussions, and if I wanted to interview any of the participants I had to fill out an official request form to be sent to some obscure government office for approval.

The rub, I was told was that all of those choice positions had already been decided on and I was not one of the lucky few. I was flabbergasted at the level of control being exerted on the domestic media.

The people hired to handle the foreign media were sympathetic and truly tried their best to help me out, but their hands were tied. They shook their heads in disgust and disbelief but could not help me break through the barriers of state-controlled media.

Foreign reporters had free rein regarding the places they wanted to go and the questions they could ask, but I felt I was being muzzled. I couldn't help but wonder why they had granted me access in the first place.

Upon reflection and after plenty of discussion over drinks with a few western colleagues I realized this was an attempt by the Chinese media to be more open and transparent, but to my Freedom of the Press-conditioned soul it was hard to recognize at first.

I wallowed in my personal purgatory on the night of His Excellency, President Hu Jintao's speech to the trillions of dollars sitting in the ballroom of The Great Hall of the People. Mister Hu talked of the nation’s past struggles against foreign aggressions, and future plans to open China to democracy, but not one single person asked the $64,000 question. When?

Not one single reporter was given the opportunity to ask Mr. Hu what kind of timeline he was working with for these sweeping democratic changes.

I felt honoured I was the first foreign reporter in the history of my organization to cover such an event but I felt a pang of indignation that there was a 30-second delay on our "live" broadcast. This is the Chinese way.

During the forum I also lost any delusions I may have had about the plight of the human condition over the almighty dollar. I was able to sit in on a general discussion involving the president and CEO of the Motion Picture Association of America, Dan Glickman.

He acknowledged 95 per cent of the DVDs for sale in China are pirated but he fell miles short of blaming the Chinese government for this blatant lawlessness and infringement of intellectual property rights.

This is a man who is a former U.S. congressman and secretary of agriculture. I got the distinct impression Mister Glickman was looking at the big picture. He was hardly the first person uttering the phrase, "We don't want to pick on the Chinese" for the intellectual property rights violations, but for some reason he illustrated the issue so clearly for me.

These captains of industry don't want to rock the boat and fall in a negative light with the world's fastest-growing economy. In fact, it was a running joke among some of the foreign media that you could hear the sound of lips smooching the proverbial ass of the Chinese government during the forum.

I suppose I should be grateful for the opportunity I have been given and the unique experiences this job affords me, but at times I can't help but feel I am part of the problem, not the solution.

China is quickly changing the world as we know it, both economically and socially, but at what price? Is the will of the dollar stronger than the pursuit of truth? Truthfully, I don't know.

If the delegates at the forum are willing to sell their souls, what will ever blow the winds of change towards free speech and democracy?
 
tank-1.jpg


Hey get of the way!!! Damn jaywalker. What he is doing standing there like a duck in open water?
 
You see, every time we say we want to do something like help make a place better for freedom and democracy and such, America takes the fall for eithe rnot doing enough, or being too "involved". What do people expect from America anyways? To "liberate" China, or screw its consumers and citizens over to help protect the Chinese, who have no desire to be "liberated" by the 'gwai' foriegn white devils?


Everyone says they like freedom and democracy and so on and so forth. Precious few people can actually outline a case where the action is undertaken for those reasons by *any* nation in the world. Precious few people can explain how precisely to go about doing it without being mired in one of a thousand problems. It goes a bit harder than to jsut say "we need to frce the Chinese to democratize. What they are doing is horrible". Too easily said, but how do people propose that it actually occurs, given the extent China influences the world economy, despite its rampant disregard for human rights?

I hate to be a jerk, but how is it the West's fault for the situation in China? How are we precisely expected to intervene in any way shape or form without causing an even worse mess? It is already quite tense enough, given the situation with Taiwan. Couple that with the international condemnation of some form of American or NATO action would bring upon us by supposedly "democratic" states with too much at stake to see China's house of cards toppled?
 
O_o

Urr....., I don't see the US gets mentioned anywhere.....

And if you are talking about Dan Glickman..., well, I think he mentioned Dan because he was sitting next to him.

I thought the Chinese were.., nvm.

*shrugs*
 
Hovercar Madness first said:
The "west" (let's keep it at the US) isn't doing anything of that sort.

Hovercar Madness than said:
Let's just say capitalism comes first, then democracy and human rights.

Huh? First you say I'm wrong and than you prove my point?


Fireblade said:
You see, every time we say we want to do something like help make a place better for freedom and democracy and such, America takes the fall for eithe rnot doing enough, or being too "involved". What do people expect from America anyways? To "liberate" China, or screw its consumers and citizens over to help protect the Chinese, who have no desire to be "liberated" by the 'gwai' foriegn white devils?


Everyone says they like freedom and democracy and so on and so forth. Precious few people can actually outline a case where the action is undertaken for those reasons by *any* nation in the world. Precious few people can explain how precisely to go about doing it without being mired in one of a thousand problems. It goes a bit harder than to jsut say "we need to frce the Chinese to democratize. What they are doing is horrible". Too easily said, but how do people propose that it actually occurs, given the extent China influences the world economy, despite its rampant disregard for human rights?

I hate to be a jerk, but how is it the West's fault for the situation in China? How are we precisely expected to intervene in any way shape or form without causing an even worse mess? It is already quite tense enough, given the situation with Taiwan. Couple that with the international condemnation of some form of American or NATO action would bring upon us by supposedly "democratic" states with too much at stake to see China's house of cards toppled?


We don't expect the US to go to war with China... All we expect is for the US to stop pretending there is nothing wrong with China for the sake of foreign trade...

Damn, here I go putting all the blame on the US when (in this case) the rest of the western world is to blame too.
 
Huh? First you say I'm wrong and than you prove my point?

Que? Let me reiterate:

With all the trade agreements and the opening up of Chinas huge market the west is pretending that China is becoming a happy place with true liberty and democracy just around the corner and all the transgressions are forgotten

As I said, the west is not at all pretending "China is becoming a happy place". Weapons embargo, anyone? They just don't care that much as long as they can feast indefinitely on piles of cheap products. Thus: capitalism > human rights/democracy
 
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