Insider view of the Bush Administration

I think judging by the amount of big oil in Shrubb's Cabinet, most people with half a brain can figure out what drives Shrubb's administration.
 
Paul O'Neil isn't exactly a credible source for anything.
Care to explain? While I think such things should be taken with a grain of salt, they are at the very least logical explanations.
 
King of Creation said:
Paul O'Neil isn't exactly a credible source for anything.

While you have a point that anyone hired, fired, and then tells all lacks a degree of credibilty, this is not the first time I have heard rumblings of the authoritarian nature of Bush's handlers.

Too bad all of the news oultets that simpletons like Paladon Solo watch will completely ignore the story. Or worse yet, give it as more evidence of liberal slants in the popular media.
 
He was fired because he didn't really know what he was doing, at all. Bush had planned on firing him for a while, and he was forced to resign because of his incompetency. O'Neil was angry and bitter towards the administration. He was like a disgruntled employee. O'Neil's incompetency was clear throughout his stay. He didn't understand how to do his job. How would you expect him to understand what else was going on? Especially since he didn't really have any part in the planning of such things like the invasion of Iraq. O'Neil was the former Treasury Secretary. It is HIGHLY unlikely that Bush would have consulted O'Neil with such things, and even more unlikely that O'Neil would have access to documents pertaining to this type of thing, even if they existed. It just doesn't make sense. The only way I can see this being true, in any sense of the word, is if Bush had laid out possibilities that might have to be taken in the future, contingency plans, if you will. Presidents, Governors, all people in power do this sort of thing all the time. If anything, it was just Bush planning on possible future events. That part is not that unlikely. I mean, Clinton had said Saddam was a threat and was bombing Iraq a lot. Bush Sr. had huge beef with Saddam. If anything, Dubya just looked back at the major events that happened in previous administrations, and created plans based on possibilities for future events. I highly doubt that Paul O'Neil's accusation that Bush had specifically intended to invade Iraq from day 1 has any credibility or truth to it.
 
Well Murdoch, I have to admit that while I do listen to NPR, it does have a liberal slant. Being a liberal myself, I don't mind it and it balances out against the conservative slant of the Economist.

The key though, is that it's intelligent news reporting.

I like, for instance, when O'Neil or Susskind says that the problem is that government feels its necessary to limit the public understanding of politics to messages more befitting bumper stickers. This is the problem with Fox- it simplifies. I would rather have a media that respects my intelligence and gives more in depth coverage.

As for intelligence in media- there is a saying-
while it's true that not all conservatives are idiots, it is true that most idiots are conservatives.
 
welsh said:
Well Murdoch, I have to admit that while I do listen to NPR, it does have a liberal slant. Being a liberal myself, I don't mind it and it balances out against the conservative slant of the Economist.

The key though, is that it's intelligent news reporting.

I like, for instance, when O'Neil or Susskind says that the problem is that government feels its necessary to limit the public understanding of politics to messages more befitting bumper stickers. This is the problem with Fox- it simplifies. I would rather have a media that respects my intelligence and gives more in depth coverage.

As for intelligence in media- there is a saying-
while it's true that not all conservatives are idiots, it is true that most idiots are conservatives.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic and it didn't translate over the electrons well. :)

I also enjoy NPR (and PBS for that matter) for their intelligent and what would seem like liberal slant. I don't think either have a liberal slant though. I think they appear to be liberal because most other news sources are conservative.

But then again I'm a liberal hippy tree-hugger, so what do I know? [/sarcasm]
 
King- I agree with you that the fact that O'Neil was asked to resign would lead one to suspect he has some bitterness.

But rather he was privy to the information, or attended cabinet meetings, or had the documents is all discussed in both the book and the interview cited above. Give it a listen first and then respond.

My feeling on it was that O'Neil was more a policy person caught in a very political administration. He seems very careful about his comments and it seems well researched.
 
Paul Krugman's take on the O'Neil book-

From the New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/13/opinion/13KRUG.html?pagewanted=print&position=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

January 13, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
The Awful Truth
By PAUL KRUGMAN

eople are saying terrible things about George Bush. They say that his officials weren't sincere about pledges to balance the budget. They say that the planning for an invasion of Iraq began seven months before 9/11, that there was never any good evidence that Iraq was a threat and that the war actually undermined the fight against terrorism.

But these irrational Bush haters are body-piercing, Hollywood-loving, left-wing freaks who should go back where they came from: the executive offices of Alcoa, and the halls of the Army War College.

I was one of the few commentators who didn't celebrate Paul O'Neill's appointment as Treasury secretary. And I couldn't understand why, if Mr. O'Neill was the principled man his friends described, he didn't resign early from an administration that was clearly anything but honest.

But now he's showing the courage I missed back then, by giving us an invaluable, scathing insider's picture of the Bush administration.

Ron Suskind's new book "The Price of Loyalty" is based largely on interviews with and materials supplied by Mr. O'Neill. It portrays an administration in which political considerations — satisfying "the base" — trump policy analysis on every issue, from tax cuts to international trade policy and global warming. The money quote may be Dick Cheney's blithe declaration that "Reagan proved deficits don't matter." But there are many other revelations.

One is that Mr. O'Neill and Alan Greenspan knew that it was a mistake to lock in huge tax cuts based on questionable projections of future surpluses. In May 2001 Mr. Greenspan gloomily told Mr. O'Neill that because the first Bush tax cut didn't include triggers — it went forward regardless of how the budget turned out — it was "irresponsible fiscal policy." This was a time when critics of the tax cut were ridiculed for saying exactly the same thing.

Another is that Mr. Bush, who declared in the 2000 campaign that "the vast majority of my tax cuts go to the bottom end of the spectrum," knew that this wasn't true. He worried that eliminating taxes on dividends would benefit only "top-rate people," asking his advisers, "Didn't we already give them a break at the top?"

Most startling of all, Donald Rumsfeld pushed the idea of regime change in Iraq as a way to transform the Middle East at a National Security Council meeting in February 2001.

There's much more in Mr. Suskind's book. All of it will dismay those who still want to believe that our leaders are wise and good.

The question is whether this book will open the eyes of those who think that anyone who criticizes the tax cuts is a wild-eyed leftist, and that anyone who says the administration hyped the threat from Iraq is a conspiracy theorist.

The point is that the credentials of the critics just keep getting better. How can Howard Dean's assertion that the capture of Saddam hasn't made us safer be dismissed as bizarre, when a report published by the Army War College says that the war in Iraq was a "detour" that undermined the fight against terror? How can charges by Wesley Clark and others that the administration was looking for an excuse to invade Iraq be dismissed as paranoid in the light of Mr. O'Neill's revelations?

So far administration officials have attacked Mr. O'Neill's character but haven't refuted any of his facts. They have, however, already opened an investigation into how a picture of a possibly classified document appeared during Mr. O'Neill's TV interview. This alacrity stands in sharp contrast with their evident lack of concern when a senior administration official, still unknown, blew the cover of a C.I.A. operative because her husband had revealed some politically inconvenient facts.

Some will say that none of this matters because Saddam is in custody, and the economy is growing. Even in the short run, however, these successes may not be all they're cracked up to be. More Americans were killed and wounded in the four weeks after Saddam's capture than in the four weeks before. The drop in the unemployment rate since its peak last summer doesn't reflect a greater availability of jobs, but rather a decline in the share of the population that is even looking for work.

More important, having a few months of good news doesn't excuse a consistent pattern of dishonest, irresponsible leadership. And that pattern keeps getting harder to deny.
 
and the Bush response-


New York Times-
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/13/politics/13ONEI.html?pagewanted=print&position=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

January 13, 2004
Bush Disputes Ex-Official's Claim That Iraq War Was Early Goal
By RICHARD W. STEVENSON

ASHINGTON, Jan. 12 — President Bush on Monday disputed a suggestion by Paul H. O'Neill, the former Treasury secretary, that the White House was looking for a reason to go to war with Iraq from the very beginning of his administration.

Responding to an account provided by Mr. O'Neill in a book to be published on Tuesday, "The Price of Loyalty," by Ron Suskind, Mr. Bush said he was working from his first days in office on how to carry out an existing national policy of promoting a change of government in Iraq. But the president said his focus at the time was on re-evaluating the ways in which the United States and Britain were enforcing the "no flight" zones in northern and southern Iraq.

"And no, the stated policy of my administration toward Saddam Hussein was very clear," Mr. Bush said at a news conference in Monterrey, Mexico, when asked whether he had begun planning within days of his inauguration for an invasion of Iraq. "Like the previous administration, we were for regime change."

"And in the initial stages of the administration, as you might remember, we were dealing with desert badger or fly-overs and fly-betweens and looks, and so we were fashioning policy along those lines," Mr. Bush continued, apparently referring to confrontations with Iraq over the no-flight zones. "And then all of a sudden September the 11th hit."

Administration officials said Mr. Bush had taken office determined to adopt a more aggressive approach toward Iraq. They said he sought a broad review of issues and options, from the effectiveness of economic sanctions imposed on Iraq to the possibility of covert action to depose Mr. Hussein.

While the administration also did contingency planning for dealing with any threat that Iraq might pose, the officials said, it was not looking for pretexts to mount a military campaign, as Mr. O'Neill suggested in the book, which was written with his cooperation and tracks the two years he spent as treasury secretary before being dismissed.

"It's laughable to suggest that the administration was planning an invasion of Iraq that shortly after coming to office," a White House official said Monday when asked about Mr. O'Neill's account.

The Treasury Department said it had referred to its inspector general for a possible inquiry the question of how a Treasury document marked secret came to be shown on a segment about the book on CBS's "60 Minutes" on Sunday. Mr. Suskind, who was given access by Mr. O'Neill to 19,000 documents that were turned over to him by the department after his departure, said the document that was shown on "60 Minutes" was the cover sheet for a February 2001 briefing paper on planning for a post-war Iraq. But he said Mr. O'Neill was not provided with the briefing paper itself.

The book describes Mr. O'Neill's surprise at the focus put on Iraq at the very first National Security Council meeting held by Mr. Bush, on Jan. 30, 2001. Iraq was also the primary topic at the second meeting of the council, two days later. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld spoke at the second meeting about how removing Mr. Hussein would "demonstrate what U.S. policy is all about" and help transform the Middle East, the book said.

Mr. Rumsfeld talked at the meeting "in general terms about post-Saddam Iraq, dealing with the Kurds in the north, the oil fields, the reconstruction of the country's economy, and the `freeing of the Iraqi people,' " the book said.

The book portrays Mr. O'Neill, who was a member of the National Security Council, as concerned that Mr. Bush was rushing toward a confrontation without a sufficiently rigorous debate about why doing so was necessary.

"From the start, we were building the case against Hussein and looking at how we could take him out and change Iraq into a new country," the book quotes Mr. O'Neill as saying. "And if we did that, it would solve everything. It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying, `Fine. Go find me a way to do this.' "

The question of how and when Mr. Bush made the decision to go to war with Iraq has been a simmering political issue since even before the conflict began last year.

Howard Dean, the former Vermont governor who is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, said at a news conference in Iowa on Monday that Mr. O'Neill's account amounted to a "very serious allegation" against Mr. Bush.

But administration officials said that Mr. Bush was simply looking for more effective ways to carry out an established policy that had bipartisan backing and that there was no early decision to go to war.

In 1998, Congress passed, with strong bipartisan support, the Iraq Liberation Act, which said the United States policy should be "to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq." President Bill Clinton signed it into law. Later that year, Mr. Clinton ordered airstrikes against Iraq on the eve of the House's vote to impeach him, citing Mr. Hussein's efforts to thwart the work of United Nations weapons inspectors.

Mr. Bush, whose father decided to allow Mr. Hussein to remain in power after the 1991 war to expel Iraq from Kuwait, had made clear even before taking office that he intended to step up efforts to oust the Iraqi leader.

Imam Sayed Hassan al-Qazwini, the leader of the Islamic Center of America in Detroit, one of the nation's largest mosques, said in a telephone interview on Monday that he had spoken to Mr. Bush six or seven times, before and after the 2000 election, about removing Mr. Hussein.

Imam Qazwini said that on Jan. 29, 2001, the day before the first National Security Council meeting of the administration, he met with Mr. Bush at the White House. The president, he said, was supportive of efforts to oust Mr. Hussein, but did not mention war as a means of doing so.

"No method was discussed at all," Imam Qazwini said. "It was a general desire for regime change."

In an interview just days before his inauguration, Mr. Bush did not sound like a man who had decided to mount an invasion of Iraq.

"We're developing our strategy," he told two correspondents from The New York Times.

The strategy he described appeared to center on strengthening economic sanctions, which he said "resemble Swiss cheese" because so many nations had ignored the United Nations mandates on what kind of trade with Iraq was prohibited.

"Let me say this to you," Mr. Bush said at the time — nine months before the Sept. 11 attacks, and before his first national security meeting. "Saddam Hussein must understand that this nation is very serious about preventing him from the development of weapons of mass destruction and any thought in his mind that he should use them against our friends and allies in the Middle East."
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/14/opinion/14WED4.html?pagewanted=print&position=

more on this-

January 14, 2004
EDITORIAL OBSERVER
Paul O'Neill, Unplugged, or What Would Alexander Hamilton Have Done?
By ANDRÉS MARTINEZ

ead Robert Rubin's recently released memoir and "The Price of Loyalty," Ron Suskind's new book on Paul O'Neill's time in the Bush administration, and a few things become apparent. The first is that Mr. O'Neill would have really liked having Mr. Rubin's job.

Of course, Mr. O'Neill thought he was getting Mr. Rubin's job when George Bush appointed him Treasury secretary, but in fact he was only assuming the title. Mr. Rubin's job, as described in his book, "In an Uncertain World: Tough Choices From Wall Street to Washington," was to analyze an often mystifying world, alongside Alan Greenspan and an insatiably curious president, and to shape domestic and global economic policy accordingly.

Mr. O'Neill, who had been a budget wiz in the Nixon and Ford administrations and a successful chief executive at Alcoa, was able to sift through economic data to his heart's content with his old pal, Mr. Greenspan. But he soon discovered that this was merely an academic undertaking. In addition to the damage that Mr. O'Neill did to himself with his erratic public statements, he was serving in an administration that was not eager to have facts get in the way of policies set by a "praetorian guard" of ideologues surrounding the president.

Mr. O'Neill can't tell you what it feels like to steer the world economy. For that, read Mr. Rubin's book. Mr. O'Neill's is a woeful tale of what it feels like to sit in the office once occupied by Alexander Hamilton and be subservient to people like Karl Rove and Karen Hughes.

"We need to be better about keeping politics out of the policy process," Mr. O'Neill told Dick Cheney, his old friend from the Ford administration who had recommended him for the job early on. In this tale, the Treasury secretary repeatedly implores the vice president to foster a more open and rigorous policy-making process in the White House, but to no avail. These scenes are reminiscent of a spy thriller in which the protagonist warns the head of counterintelligence that there is an enemy mole in their midst, only to discover that his confidant is actually the mole.

Long after the reader has figured it out, Mr. O'Neill finally realizes that Mr. Cheney is the leader of the inner circle, which keeps facts — whether about global warming, the deficit, steel tariffs or Iraq — from getting in the way of policy.

Mr. O'Neill did manage, for a time, to head off talk of a tax cut on dividends. But when the issue comes up once more right after the midterm elections, and Mr. O'Neill again notes that the country cannot afford it, Mr. Cheney cuts him off: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter. We won the midterms. This is our due."

To his credit, President Bush, who is depicted as having a hard time following the discussion, wonders at the same meeting whether he hasn't already given wealthy people enough of a break. That's when Mr. Rove chimes in that the president ought to "stick to principle."

Mr. O'Neill came to feel that he, Christie Whitman and Colin Powell were essentially hired for cover by a president who had pledged to govern from the center, but really had no intention of doing so.

Mr. O'Neill was a Nixonian Republican caught up in a Reaganite restoration. He had admired how President Bush's father, when faced with a dire fiscal outlook, had reneged on his "no new taxes" pledge. And while some Democratic liberals had viewed President Bill Clinton's fiscal discipline as a betrayal, for the likes of Mr. O'Neill it represented the triumph of Republican values.

The new Treasury secretary and Mr. Greenspan shared concerns that even the bulk of the first round of tax cuts in 2001 could prove unaffordable if projected $5.6 trillion surpluses over the next decade turned out to be a mirage (as they did). That's why Mr. O'Neill, whose presidentially conferred nickname was downgraded over time from "Pablo" to the "Big O," tried to get Mr. Bush to agree to condition the phasing in of these cuts on the availability of surpluses.

He failed. "I won't negotiate with myself," the president told his Treasury secretary, as if responsible economic stewardship was a compromise too far.

The White House is upset that a departed cabinet member has provided such an intimate and devastating portrait of presidential decision-making — in an election year, no less. But Mr. O'Neill, who comes across as somewhat naïve and politically tone-deaf in this thick stew of self-justification and insider revelation, also feels betrayed by a White House that discouraged any serious policy debates.

Whether it's Mr. Cheney's energy task force, the supposedly independent commission on Social Security reform or the president's ridiculously scripted Waco economic summit meeting in the summer of 2002, the Treasury secretary continually registered his deep shock at what he rightly considered shoddy, if not dishonest, decision-making.

"When you have people with a strong ideological position and you only hear from one side, you can pretty much predict the outcome," he says of the energy task force. Too often, the fix was in, as when steel tariffs were imposed, and when Mr. O'Neill's post-Enron efforts to make chief executives more accountable for their companies' misbehavior were thwarted by White House concerns about "the base."

When Mr. Cheney finally called to fire his old friend in November 2002, the O'Neill account quotes him as saying, "We'd really like to do this in an amicable and gracious way."

It was clearly too late to start down that road.
 
Murdoch, lay off! I haven't said anything damnit! God, wtf is the problem?! When will you buggers stop?! I read the article and found it interesting. And in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Bush admits that. I kind of had a feeling that it was a history of hate that Bush had on Saddam. I don't care, I didn't like Saddam, and neither did anyone with common knowledge and any sense.
 
So what you are saying PS is that it's cool that Bush lied to you about the weapons of mass destruction as long as Saddam got removed? That months before Sept 11 and the War against Terrorism, the administration was planning war?
 
This is my point. If I don't say anything or want to stay out of a topic, someone like Murdoch or Ozrat or someone else who has a grudge against me or something brings me into. Why? Yes welsh, if you MUST know, I don't care! I could care less if we do or don't find them weapons. And I KNOW that even if we do, you will be saying it's all planted! You will never be happy (not generally applying to any specific person).
 
But these irrational Bush haters are body-piercing, Hollywood-loving, left-wing freaks who should go back where they came from: the executive offices of Alcoa, and the halls of the Army War College.
Is it just me, or is this one of the worst openings of an article ever?

And please, everyone, lay off bashing Paladin Solo. Do NOT take him into debates he isn't posting in. Hedoesn't want it, and it's completely stupid.
 
My bad, Sander. But it worked so well! I mean, he fell right into it! :twisted:

But I'll stop, its just not fair.
 
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