Is t errorism good for bush-

welsh

Junkmaster
Last might on RealTime with Bill Mohr (on HBO) on the commentators said that whenever you mention Vietnam it's good for Kerry, whenever you mention terrorism, it's good for Bush.

What do you think? What are the chances of GB giving us Osama before the election?

And an article from the New Repubic-
July Surprised
By John B. Judis, Spencer Ackerman & Massoud Ansari
The New Republic

Monday 16 August Issue

July 29, Faisal Saleh Hayyat, Pakistan's interior minister, announced the arrest of a high-ranking Al Qaeda figure on local television. After a tense standoff in Gujrat, a city some 100 miles southeast of Islamabad, Pakistani security forces had captured the Tanzanian jihadist Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, the FBI's twenty-second "Most Wanted" terrorist and a suspected conspirator in the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. A proud Hayyat dubbed the arrest "another crowning success of Pakistan's security apparatus in the fight against terrorism." But it is doubtful Hayyat was really addressing his fellow Pakistanis: He made the announcement at midnight. More likely, his intended audience was half a world away - in the United States, where, in the middle of the afternoon, John Kerry was preparing to deliver his nomination speech to the Democratic National Convention.

While media coverage of the capture didn't exactly overshadow Kerry - Ghailani isn't Osama bin Laden - the announcement's timing seemed suspicious. Ghailani wasn't apprehended on July 29 at all, but rather four days earlier. Last month, The New Republic reported that the Bush administration was pressuring the Pakistanis to deliver a "high-value target" (HVT) in time for the November elections ("July Surprise?" July 19). According to an official with Pakistan's powerful Inter Services Intelligence (ISI), a White House aide told ISI chief Ehsan ul-Haq during a spring visit to Washington that "it would be best if the arrest or killing of [any] HVT were announced on twenty-six, twenty-seven, or twenty-eight July," during the convention. When asked this week if the announcement of Ghailani's capture on July 29 confirmed tnr's reporting, National Security Council spokesman Sean McCormack told the Los Angeles Times, "There is no truth to that statement."

But some American and Pakistani intelligence and counterterrorism officials do question the timing of the announcement. After his arrest, Ghailani's Pakistani captors, with assistance from FBI officials, set to work getting him to talk. While they had little initial success, a source privy to the interrogations says, "It might have taken awhile, but he would ultimately have broken down," at which point Ghailani might well have shared information, such as the names of Qaeda associates, that the Pakistanis could have acted on. But, before that could happen, according to an ISI officer, FBI officials, who had initially insisted on keeping the arrest secret, told officials in Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf's government that Islamabad should announce Ghailani's capture. An ISI official explains, "When it comes to matters especially pertaining to Al Qaeda, it is always the U.S. administration that takes most of the decisions, while the Pakistani government simply plays the role of a front man." This official and another ISI official believe that the driving factor behind the announcement was U.S. politics. "What else could explain it?" the second official says.

Though there is no policy governing how long to keep such arrests secret, standard intelligence practices dictate that the capture should not have been made public until investigators had finished with Ghailani (and the laptop and computer disks he had been captured with). Indeed, Ghailani may still talk, but some current and former American officials fear that, by broadcasting his name around the world, the Pakistanis have reduced the value of the intelligence that interrogators can extract from him. "Now, anything that he was involved in is being shredded, burned, and thrown in a river," a senior counterterrorism official told the Los Angeles Times. "We have to assume anyone affiliated with this guy is on the run ... when, usually, we can get great stuff as long as we can keep it quiet." Adds former CIA operative Robert Baer: "It makes no sense to make the announcement then. Presumably, everything [Al Qaeda] does is compartmented. By announcing to everybody in the world that we have this guy, and he is talking, you have to assume that you shoot tactics. To keep these guys off-balance, a lot of this stuff should be kept in secret. You get no benefit from announcing an arrest like this. You always want to get these guys when they are on vacation, when they are not expecting you."

In fact, Al Qaeda has a history of adapting to intelligence penetrations. In 1998, a leak to The Washington Times detailing "an intelligence bonanza" from intercepted cell phone calls made by bin Laden and his cohorts resulted in the abrupt abandonment of the phones - and the end of the bonanza. Some CIA counterterrorism officials believe the premature announcements of the arrests of important Qaeda terrorists like Abu Zubaydah and Tawfiq bin Attash limited the value of the information they possessed about their comrades, who are believed to discard cell phones and e-mail addresses every two or three days. Daniel Benjamin, a counterterrorism official in the Clinton administration, says he doesn't know all the facts behind Ghailani's arrest, but he observes, "If you have that much stuff on a guy, I would think you would want to keep it quiet for awhile to follow up all the leads."

And there could well be leads to follow up, just as there were after the apprehension of Qaeda associates Musaad Aruchi in Karachi on June 12 and Muhammed Naeem Noor Khan in Lahore on July 13. Both suspected terrorists were captured along with laptops, computer disks, and maps indicating surveillance of U.S. installations in preparation for an attack, and their information led investigators to Ghailani - and contributed to the announcement of this week's Code Orange alert. "There is not a single significant Al Qaeda arrest that didn't yield us more," a senior Pakistani intelligence official told The Washington Post. But the arrests of Aruchi and Khan were kept secret for weeks - until reporters started investigating the Ghailani capture. "I'm definitely cynical enough to believe the timing [of these announcements] is always political," says a recently retired intelligence official. "I think the timing of a success announcement or a failure announcement is always optimized as much as whoever controls it can optimize it." But American and Pakistani security officials remain skeptical as to what the Ghailani announcement really optimized - the war on terrorism or George W. Bush's reelection campaign.
 
bleh its just more propganda bull**** and stuff. War on terrorism is good and all but come on. every person on the world knows that crap by now. was too well timed it seems to me too, announce it right on Kerrys nomination speech trying to go over it. hell i was watching his speech and practicly didnt hear a thing about this crap (i heard SOME but it never went off the speech). Sometimes I think Americas had too much time to prosper. the state of politics shows that to me. Bush was elected and he did do some good for the world. but now hes trying to cling to power that he cant truely use, the war on terror shits died down since many have gone into hiding. I write more but it would probebly get me a grade A flaming to hell and back.
 
Arguably a world without Saddam is a better one.

Frankly, at this point I don't really care. Every time Kerry mentions Vietnam, though, it makes me sick.

I probably wouldn't mind as much if he hadn't come back after the war and claimed to be a war criminal.
 
I don't think so. I think Bush has'nt been pushing the whole Kerry-did'nt-deserve-half-his-medals-and-he-fucked-Jane-Fonda-(not-that-I-would'nt-fuck-Jane-Fonda-damn-she-was-hot).

I think after 9/11 2004 people will begin to swing towards Bush, remembering his firm leadership at that crucial time. I honestly belive that the world with Bush is better then a world with Gore or Kerry.

Still, I'd love to see Kerry win the election but loose the popular vote. That would be dandy.


I read the New Republic, actually. Quality magazine.
 
I think the election will descend into mud-slinging mostly because that's what the republicans can do and because there is so much mud to sling at the repubicans.

Which is a shame because there are a lot of issues to be decided. THe problem for the Republicans is that their past four years suggest that they have been a party of exclusion and division, which isn't a great record to play on.

In the end, the battle will be for the middle class. Considering the religious right and the power of negative campaigning, not to mention the republicans probably know how to do a negative campaign better than the democrats, I would still put money on Bush for winning.
 
You know, I'm a little surprised by the economy. I think Bush planned to do the Nixon thing and artificially pump it up for the election but it might have went kaput a little early. I expected this to be a strong Bush issue, but it could go either way now.

I'd add that Kerry is just not a very strong candidate....at all. His war record is, despite what soem may say, spotty, he was a dedicated peacenick for decades and he is'nt even very popular in his home state. You guys should have gone with....anybody else. Truth be told, I'm pretty sure Dean had more crossover appeal, let alone Edwards. Both of those candidates, particularly Dean, give the impression of a strong candidate- and Dean could have taken the Iraq issue and run with it, his plans for the economy where better, etc.....I know alot of Republicans (most of them actually) who would have voted for Dean in a heartbeat over Kerry or maybe even Bush.

It's kind of Vietnam-syndrome for you guys. When the Democrats get angry they choose stupid candidates.
 
I don't think so CCR. THe guy had years on Senate committees concerning intelligence and foreign relations- making Kerry more qualified and informed than Bush was before Bush took office (and probably now considering that the guy doesn't like to read). Plus while Kerry does not do much in legislation, he has done a lot of investigation- The BCCI thing was one investigation I have been recently reading about. We tend to forget that the Congress is not just a legislative branch, but also a watchdog over the executive.

Not sure about his support in Mass. He's been a Senator for awhile which suggests that he's not that unpopular. And at least the guy stands up for what he believes in. You might disagree with him, but he stood up when Vietnam came up, and didn't like what he saw, so he came back and protested. He's been doing that since.

Actually I think what weighs in against Kerry is the policy of dropping tax cuts on the top 2% and corporations that export jobs. That 2% is going to upset a lot of the power-elite in this country. But then this same group was probably going to support Bush anyway.

But if Bush is going off on the "trickle down" economy crap that Reagan came up with, the problem is that it doesn't work. With each part of the trickle down, more of the money gets consumed with each level of the social heirarchy down.
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 20:29 Post subject:
I don't think so CCR. THe guy had years on Senate committees concerning intelligence and foreign relations- making Kerry more qualified and informed than Bush was before Bush took office (and probably now considering that the guy doesn't like to read). Plus while Kerry does not do much in legislation, he has done a lot of investigation- The BCCI thing was one investigation I have been recently reading about. We tend to forget that the Congress is not just a legislative branch, but also a watchdog over the executive.
His voting record, however, cancels that out (voted against GF1, for GF2, against every possible increase for the military budget), his statements (we can't defeat the USSR, etc..) easily cancel that out, and you're forgetting that this is relative, Bush has alot more expiriance now, particularly over Kerry.

Not sure about his support in Mass. He's been a Senator for awhile which suggests that he's not that unpopular. And at least the guy stands up for what he believes in. You might disagree with him, but he stood up when Vietnam came up, and didn't like what he saw, so he came back and protested. He's been doing that since.
He almost lost the candidacy to a virgin governer of Massachucets. 60% of Massachuc(ians?) belvie he's a flip flopper.

Remember, the guy talked about his record in the senate for 26 seconds. He's just not that popular, and he's not that good at governing if you judge him by his record, even in the home of Ted Kennedy he's unpopular.

You're wrong there. He turned on the rhetoric to become Senator becasue he lost the nomination before. He's born a flipflopper and he'll always be one.
Actually I think what weighs in against Kerry is the policy of dropping tax cuts on the top 2% and corporations that export jobs. That 2% is going to upset a lot of the power-elite in this country. But then this same group was probably going to support Bush anyway.
:roll:
That's not all of it. He also wants to raise the minimum wage to 7.00 USD. Good for me, bad for unskilled workers. Not to mention his stance on Walmart.

But if Bush is going off on the "trickle down" economy crap that Reagan came up with, the problem is that it doesn't work. With each part of the trickle down, more of the money gets consumed with each level of the social heirarchy down.
Worst part of the Reagen legacy. I don't agree with it, to be frank, but I still think the Bush tax cuts are not as bad as the lefties make them out to be.
 
Bradylama said:
Arguably a world without Saddam is a better one.

I don't see how that's really open for arguement. The guy gassed his own people because they read the wrong bible and tried to kill his own son. He's a wacky facist and we'll all breathe easier when he's pushing daisies.
 
Spells "fascist" from the original "fascii" during the early mussolini era.
 
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SPAM SPAM SPAM!!! Shame on you :shock:

Yeah, the forum can be laggy at times ;) patience is a virtue here . .
 
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