JE on game balancing

D

Dan

Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Lately, there has been a lot of talk about the outstanding effort JE Sawyer is putting in order to make the game more balanced.

In a thread about that issue, JE shared a few words:
<blockquote>
The skill balance in FO and FO2 sucked. I'd rather leave Gifted as it was and chuck in another horribly unbalanced Trait before I'd leave Outdoorsman and Science to the ravages of suxitude.

Seriously, those skills (and several others) are so woefully underused that they need to be beefed up. It's not like it's insanely difficult to think of uses for them.</blockquote>He later added this:
<blockquote>
There are no game critical skills. "OOPS, YOU DON'T HAVE 125 OUTDOORSMAN, PLZ RESTART GAEM." But a person with Outdoorsman should be able to do enough with Outdoorsman over the course of the game that the player feels it is as worthwhile to tag and improve as a combat skill or a diplomacy skill. </blockquote>

I don't understand why any kind of charecter should be able to finish the game. No matter how the game is developed there would always be wierd combinations that no one takes, that makes sure you can't finish the game. If I make a very weak charecter with a lot of intellegence and spend all of the skill points on gambling and outdoorsman, I don't see how I'll be able to save the world.

Link: thread
 
You can make sure you can complete the game if you have enough in one or two of the big skills (science, combat skills, thief skills or diplomacy), and make all the other skills OPTIONAL skills, that do no represent an alternative way of playing, but rather gives you extra options you couldn't get without taking the skills.

For example, giving the person who spends a lot on gambeling special side quests.

Not all the skills need to be equal in their importance to the main story line.
 
If he could pull off making any combination of skills a viable way to complete the game I'd be pretty impressed. Its hard to imagine a first aid/gambling/repair guy being as good a choice as any other.

Hopefully this is the start of a trend of him being more creative "inside the box" instead of changing everything in sight.
 
That's exactly the point. A first aid/gambling/repair guy can't pull it off without using a combat skill, a diplomacy skill or a thiefing skill.

So even it is possible, it's the Special system that allows it.
 
I don't know if he's saying its possible to finish the game with any character type but rather that they would have an ENJOYABLE time playing the game. For instance, in Fallout 2, picking outdoorsman, first aid, and gambling as your traits will leave you with none of the side quests that require you to meet skill reqs and it makes the game hard to play. However, in the next game it sounds like while it will be hard to beat the game with this character, he will at least have options in the game that are unique to his abilities. As someone else pointed out, gambling side quests.

I'm for this change, though again, the words sound good... hopefully implementation will be equallly so.
 
I agree with both of you. It's just that this combined with JE's other post about the guy who tags "useless" skills makes me think he's really into making any charcter able to finish the game. I don't think that any random character should be able to without at least one combat/thieving/diplomacy skill, but it seems like he's intent on making it happen - especially when he says "There are no game critical skills".
 
I agree. Making a game that can be completed with EVERY ONE of the 14 or so skills he's planning on having seems a bit weird. That basically boils down to:

A way to gamble your way out of the game.
A way to 'outdoorsman' your way to finish the game.

... and so on and some of those just don't make sense, unless you REALLY have a unique ending. Almost to a point where someone who plays with Outdoorsman experiences a whole different game, with different main quest and so on.
 
A good way of looking at it is through the final villian.

Think of the master, you could kill him, talk to him, or just go use the bomb. You could fight your way to him or just sneak.

Now, anyone think it would make any sense if you gamble with the master? "HAHA I rolled a 5, now you must leave here and never return"
 
The more possible combinations that can finish the game + having a different experience through it, the better.

However, I'm highly doubtful that you'd be able to make it through the game with any character. Basically, I'm with slowtrain who posted the thread on the IPLY boards in that some skills are more of the second tier or supportive kind, while others are more important. I just don't see how a character who doesn't have a decent Combat skill, Diplomatic skill, Sneak skill and/or Science skills (seeing how J.E. talks about Science Boy) could make it through the game.
 
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