JE want opinions, just not ours!

[Odin]

SaintP got word that Je Sawyer had posted a thread in the SomethingAwful forums, where he's asking the people there what they think about his Combat combos (you know ala beat'em up games).

I belive Saint Proverbius nailed it:<blockquote>Where's the lub, JE?</blockquote>Yeah, where is the lub, JE!

 

[JJ86]

HA!! Maybe he should post on the SuperMario Brothers boards just to get a different perspective. Actually it might help with some grass-roots marketing, but as far as taking serious suggestions from the folks at SA... ????

 

[4too]

Receptive Audience

Receptive Audience

All that close up and personal interacting, Uber Unarmed Boy, has been perculating in his pressurized vessel. Lot of detail in that Unarmed thread. Too much for any presently conceived notion of FO as a RPG.

The Stealth Boys might enjoy some special moves, silent moves. The multi hex attacking combo has a cinematic 3 Stooges, slap stick, wacky
appeal. If knock down rules still exist in this Real$Time, the sweep kick could be of use.

If he's fishing for console experts to provide some hard answers to this
proposed character path, then he's better grounded in working out this idea than I have given him credit.

My first reaction was cynical to say the least. As a marketing ploy the
Uber Unarmed Boy might play well with those so inclined.
If it can be incorporated into the game as a whole so it's accessible to other character paths, useful at lower skill levels, bring it on.
Example: considser a 40 point Throwing skill when your PC is 2 hexes away from some robots and there's time to access those EMF Grenades........allow the possiblity of a sweep kick or groin kick (while gun totting) to knock down an approaching melee attacker.

If this attention to the Unarmed fills up the time and 'handicaps' the RPG developement, I question the seriousness of this enterprise.

Slap 'em Moe, WWWoooooooWWoooooWooooo................

4too

 

[Sammael]

I am extremely disappointed by this little stunt of his.

 

[Briosafreak]

Well according to this he comes to NMA and reads what we write, just read what he posted in one of his discussions with DarkUnderlorld:

It's too bad you were too shy to repost your NMA comments here, so I've taken the liberty of doing so for you.

And here he talks about Rosh, it seems Sawyer fears him (that`s normal ) but takes his views into consideration:

When even the angriest and most rabidly unruly Fallout fans at satellite websites produce more useful feedback than you are, something's wrong. Rosh would probably blow my foot off with C4 as soon as look at me, but even he has given me more useful feedback on the development of this project.

I`m still doing the "bridge" thing, there are far too many people that come here and don`t go to the Iplay boards, and i never know when he comes here and when he doesn`t , so....

 

[Odin]

I can understand that he wants feedback from different people but I'd like to see him more involved in the actual Fallout scene, ie the DAC and NMA boards, I mean if he's reading these boards why not post on them (and of course DACs)?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

He's registered on DAC, even.

 

[Chaoticlandraider^]

maybe he is looking for useful opinions rather then this sucks this is uber l33t shit for console gamers

so my suggestion is to give good contructional critisim ie.the problem with akimbo guns is blah blah maybe you could fix it by doing blah blah....

 

[Odin]

maybe he is looking for useful opinions rather then this sucks this is uber l33t shit for console gamers

Maybe he's scared... or really don't want to justify his actions, since it seems his hands are tied sometimes..

 

[DarkUnderlord]

so my suggestion is to give good contructional critisim ie.the problem with akimbo guns is blah blah maybe you could fix it by doing blah blah....

Yeah, we did that and looked what happened. He's gone from 2 stupid gun skills down to 1. Woohoo. Guns suddenly became THE skill to tag, even more so than just Small Guns for the early game benefit in FO 1 & 2.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

maybe he is looking for useful opinions rather then this sucks this is uber l33t shit for console gamers

so my suggestion is to give good contructional critisim ie.the problem with akimbo guns is blah blah maybe you could fix it by doing blah blah....

I've done more math in that discussion than JE Sawyer's done in the last year.

 

[Briosafreak]

Wow they are giving really good opinions at SA, like this from ZAP:

Gumby came out of the closet to say:
Listen to the fans. They know what makes a good Fallout game. Also,
Don't listen to No Mutants Allowed. IIRC, Fallout 1/2 didn't really sell all that well, and you guys need to make a game that's good, fun, and accessible to those who buy computer games, so that Interplay can make money, Black Isle gets more trust and autonomy from the parent company, and J. E. Sawyer gets more freedom to make more and more good games.

Fixed for the absolute truth in words.

Seriously, I went back and started to read the news archive with all of the interviews that you've done with them or other sites. I'm suprised that they even continue to function once they something new with a Fallout game. You know that if a Fallout 3 is released that they will buy a new computer, play it constantly for the next 4 years without quiting effectively making that a dedicated Fallout 3 machine. They will look at every aspect of the game looking for every little bug and attacking whoever is the lead for screwing up their precious Fallout. With that said, if Feargus Urquhart gives you or anyone else his blessing to contine, do it to the specifications that the first two were set up to follow and modify at your leisure. That said...

The above idea about proficiencies is great. Much like how a fighter has a favorite sword that they will do anything to keep, a gunslinger has a favorite gun that he would do anything to keep around.

And more:

Nice fee rope kid came out of the closet to say:
according to some people, the changes i'm suggesting for SPECIAL make it "unrecognizable".

These are the zelots at NMA and the BIS forums that think that. I think the changes expand the usefulness of the SPECIAL system as a whole. I remember the Fallout PnP system a guy created with looking at the stat calculations from the Fallout manual. I wonder if he has had time to see these changes made. I know that he's no authority on SPECIAL, but he might provide some more feedback if he hasn't already done so. It makes SPECIAL more of a reality for decent PnP gameplay.

]


Good feedback you`re getting J.E. , congrats....

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

That last quote you did basically proves my point that the reason JE Sawyer has not come to the fansites is because he's looking for validation of his ideas, not criticism or opinions. He doesn't want people to tell him that what he's doing isn't good with an explanation of why they don't like it. He's not looking for stats, numbers, and what ill-effects the changes he's suggesting might affect very poorly. He's merely looking for people to pat his ass and tell him he's a good boy.

 

[4too]

Holier than what?

[Dust off the drum machine.]

Doot, dooo, doot. Doot, dooo, doot.

We all be pro-filed, and re-viled,
the candor of our rancor makes us hostile.

.........


There is a "Rep" associated with NMA and DAC, and I have found
that those that play that card, disin' the rep, are no more principled or virtuous than any other zealot that one meets on the highway.
Perhaps unconscious to their hypocracy, they are unconscious on other topics.

.............

JE can find validation anywhere he chooses to go.

He can find enlightenment in the shadows or in the sunshine.

Agreement might be the easy path to take.

Debate might push and pull and appear the slowest route.

At some cross road he will still be carrying too much baggage, and how easy will his choices be?

JE can find validation anywhere he chooses to go.

..........


4too

 

[Kindo]

This Sawyer guy started out looking really promising. But, *sigh*. Now I'm not so sure about this Fallout 3 anymore.

 

[atoga]

1–15 Tax rates
21–54 Credits (refundable and nonrefundable)
55–59A Alternative Minimum Tax & environmental tax
61–90 Definition of gross income (before deductions), including items specifically taxable
101–140 Specific exclusions from gross income
141–149 Private activity bonds
151–153 Personal exemptions; dependent defined
161–199 Deductions, including interest, taxes, losses, and business related items
211–224 Itemized deductions for individuals
241–250 Deductions unique to corporations
261–291 Nondeductible items, including special rules limiting or deferring deductions
301–386 Corporate transactions, including formation, distributions, reorganizations, liquidations (Subchapter C)

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Listen to the fans. They know what makes a good Fallout game.

and then...

Don't listen to No Mutants Allowed.

IRONY!

I'm sorry, I didn't know Something Awful was a Fallout dedicated fan site.

IIRC, Fallout 1/2 didn't really sell all that well, and you guys need to make a game that's good, fun, and accessible to those who buy computer games, so that Interplay can make money, Black Isle gets more trust and autonomy from the parent company, and J. E. Sawyer gets more freedom to make more and more good games.

We're not really back at this again, are we?

You know that if a Fallout 3 is released that they will buy a new computer, play it constantly for the next 4 years without quiting effectively making that a dedicated Fallout 3 machine. They will look at every aspect of the game looking for every little bug and attacking whoever is the lead for screwing up their precious Fallout.

Not buying a Play Station 2, not buying FO:Enforcer. I'd like to think there are limits to how much you can completely fuck something up before people abandon you. If Interplay turn Fallout into a "quick sell, cash cow" game, they'll lose whatever ounce of credibility they ever had left. Actually, you better make that the half-ounce of credibility that they have left.

With that said, if Feargus Urquhart gives you or anyone else his blessing to contine, do it to the specifications that the first two were set up to follow and modify at your leisure.

What's Feargus got to do with Interplay now-a-days?

 

[Dan]

That last quote you did basically proves my point that the reason JE Sawyer has not come to the fansites is because he's looking for validation of his ideas, not criticism or opinions. He doesn't want people to tell him that what he's doing isn't good with an explanation of why they don't like it. He's not looking for stats, numbers, and what ill-effects the changes he's suggesting might affect very poorly. He's merely looking for people to pat his ass and tell him he's a good boy.

I don't think that's the only reason, actually.

It seems to me he wants to avoid what happened with Fo:BoS. He just want to seem like he is getting feedback from the fans, so he gets no bad publicity. Of course, the doesn't mean he is really considering our ideas.