More Nukes for the USA

Schuljunge

Still Mildly Glowing
President Bush says the United States needs to modernize its strategic nuclear arsenal to make it more secure, reliable, and make the weapons better designed for the threats of the 21st century. Recently the administration unveiled a plan that would radically overhaul America's nuclear bomb building infrastructure.

This Project is called "Complex 2030"

edit: better link
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/12/07/MNG5Q3GH941.DTL

Ehh...forget about an postapokalyptic Life, after these nukes, its over.

Discuss.
 
Cant that fool bush, drop dead now so he cant make any more disastrous decision in his life time, he have done enough for ten already...
 
he still wants nuclear bunkerbusters too. why invest so much in a weapon that has no real detterence value and that you cant use without causing international protest?
 
The Pentagon, notably, is not pushing for the new warheads. A classified study conducted this summer by the Defense Science Board, which was leaked last month, stated, "Current (Department of Defense) structure provides neither clear requirements nor persuasive rationale for changing the nuclear stockpile."

John Harvey, director of the policy planning staff at the National Nuclear Security Administration, a division of the Energy Department, remarked in an interview earlier this year, "We need to tell the military what's possible, even if they haven't asked the question yet. Sometimes the services don't know the right questions to ask."
That says quite a bit, right there. This is just another part of the "Project for a New American Century" bullshit that the current administration is so deeply mired in.

American Empire? YOU GUESSED IT! Little do the fuckers realize that they're already in the process of creating their own worst enemies through the "War on Terror" (Tie people to an idea, and then destroy them), and this will just make it worse. Like HELL China and Russia would just sit back and LET the corrupt shits heading up the USA lord it over them.

Oh, and let's not forget another part of the PNAC's goals: the proliferation of arms in space. Only by the USA, of course.

Everyone else can't be trusted.

keyser Soeze said:
Cant that fool bush, drop dead now so he cant make any more disastrous decision in his life time, he have done enough for ten already...
Do you ACTUALLY BELIEVE that would change anything?! It's not Bush! Bush is just the proverbial "silly monkey" at the core of the effort to keep Americans in the dark. He has no real power.

You'd be amazed just how many Americans have no fucking clue what's going on outside their borders, other than "American soldier(s) killed in Iraq, Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt adopt all of sub-saharan Africa, KOLD WAR II: Kim Jong bomb get!". Never mind, you wouldn't be amazed. Too many Americans can't even identify the borders of the state they live in, let alone the borders of the country. They're perfectly willing and able to be distracted by the monkeys, lest they have to think.

Getting rid of Bush won't make a difference in the world. Electing a Democrat to the Presidency won't, either. We're approaching the point where not even control of the house and Senate being wrested away from Republicans could make a difference. That's not to say that all Republicans are "corrupt and evil", and all Democrats are "good and noble" (hah). They're both top-heavy with sleazebags, and there are cat's paws everywhere. Republicans simply tend to have a greater concentration of them.

Iraq will still be on the razor's edge of a civil war (if not there already), the Middle East will still be feeling the effects and hating the US for it, North Korea will still have Nukes, Pakistan will still be walking a tightrope (if Musharraf goes, say hello to a country more powerful and dangerous than Iran in every way- they already fucking HAVE nukes AND a very capable military!), Everyone will still be wary of China's growth and buildup, most of Africa will still be the dying shithole Europe (and America) have made it. Nothing changes, but what's been changed stays the same. Getting rid of Bush is NOT going to fix everything their Regime has broken, be it through action or negligence.

And all it will do is slow down what's coming.

SuaSide said:
why invest so much in a weapon that has no real detterence value and that you cant use without causing international protest?
If you've gotten to the point where international protests don't matter to you due to the fact that you're just enforcing your will upon the world through an insurmountable high ground (Space, Objective Force, CVN-21, enhanced Nukes)...

Tie people to an idea, and destroy them.

THIS is the fist of LIBERTY. JUSTICE for ALL. Disclaimer: "All" does not include "you".
 
If there is one positive aspect of bush ( yes there is one!) it is that he helps creating a negative view of USA. He is probably one of its worst enemys atm.

But the puppet masters have probably foreseen this and will soon have a new puppet to control.
 
Yeah… This figures, the whole world just-about hates the good ol’ USA and our answer is “Make a better bomb.” Well, its no surprise really, if they hate you - Make a better weapon. I suppose, Bush is the smiling front man and the “Boogie men” that American’s can’t see over all the fat they have, are the real guys pulling the strings? It’s awesome though to have the rest of the world point this out for me, so I don’t have to put my Big-Mac down and stop watching my pompous American shows. Whew! Big load off my chest, thanks guys!

Still I can‘t stop thinking that, if I could JUST figure out where Washington ends and California begins, I could single handedly end this crisis right now… But fuck, if this just aint the tastiest Big-Mad I ever did eat! Maybe I could look at a map… No… Fast food to… good… Shit, I can’t stop eating, damn my tiny American brain, and huge American gut. I know! Maybe after I’m done eating I can go look at a map AND solve the crisis… Wait, nope… cousin too hot… have to… bang her… like a… trapped goat… Figures, I’ll just have to let the rest of the world fix this for me!

Look, I was being sarcastic - Just incase you missed that - Believe it or not, not all Americans are rich, religious zealots who hate everything that’s not red, white and blue; Nor are we all left wing morons who go around, saving puppies and sticking daisies in guns, whilst adopting a baby from every race. A select few of us, live in the middle and trust me looking out from the middle (Not the American middle, just the middle.) the whole world seems to have lost it.

The whole world is in the dark, not just the fat dumb, yanks. You all know EXACTLY what you’re supposed to know, as do I and as does anyone else who doesn’t sit in a seat of power. Most politics world wide, are a carefully orchestrated thing. Don’t believe me? Wait 50 years and watch “The History Channel” (If the world doesn’t end in the next 50 years that is) I’ll wait… The point is America is not in the dark, anymore then the rest of the world - Its just the guys/gals that represent the American people are morons. Seriously though, most celebrities, reporters and political figures are morons.

From what I’m shown on American T.V and American papers, people from other parts of the world are, loud, stupid and just seem jealous that they don’t have bombs and guns as big as ours. The media makes it look like an international case of “Penis envy” - don’t mean I believe it… But if I did, I’m sure I would sound like the Americans shown in the media all over the world And believing what the media told me would make me no better then the pompous wind bags, ranting about the “Evils” of America and all the fat Americans.

Lastly (And this is just for you Kan-Keria) China is full of corrupt shit heads, as is Russia and every other super power in the world. Also when it comes to “Arms in space” you really can’t trust any-other country, but your own. Unless you’re a neutral country, you sure as shit don’t want your counterparts to beat you to this goal. It doesn’t make it right and it sure as hell aint noble… But it’s a truth of the age we live in. You have to accept that no matter what country you live in. Its scary, it’s stupid, it’s a power struggle.

So I’m not completely derailing this subject, I’m going to add this. What happened with the “modernization” of our nuclear arsenal is scary and dumb, but no matter how hard anyone tried it couldn’t be stopped. Its scary cuz’ it amounts to either America’s government being really paranoid about something, planning a new war… Or god forbid every conspiracy theorist is right and America is plotting to take over ALL OF THE WORLD! *Dramatic music* If this was another cold war, what we all just got done reading, would not be there - It would be a classified document, rotting in a filing-cabinet.

Well hate us, or love us… You’re still going to be stupid with us.

Look tare me a new one all you like, the point is from what I'v seen everyone eles sounds just like Americans - Only with other political views. I agree with what was said here, but by no means is the American puplic in the dark... Our leaders just dont listen really well.
 
Most political figures are not morons, WaterChip, most political figures know exactly what they're doing, and they're trying to gain and remain in power.
 
LONG ASS RANT HOLY SHIT DUCK AND COVER

WaterChip said:
I'm American too. IRONY.

Figures, I’ll just have to let the rest of the world fix this for me!
That shows you REALLY missed the point.

Moving on. I was not implying that America are the only insane ones- indeed, everyone is- and everyone believes that they're the only rational ones.

The problem is that the "Pax Americana" freaks will have the ability to, and be ready and willing to bring down the hand of justice upon "everybody else" for their "shortsightedness" and lack of rationality. This isn't pie in the sky Area 51 horseshit, this is sitting in plain fucking sight. Try looking up any of the programs I mentioned in my earlier post, they're just the most visible parts.

Chew on this for a while. PNAC- Rebuilding America's Defenses

Then, consider the fact that Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, George W. Bush, Paul Wolfowitz and John Bolton are high ranking members of PNAC.

Oh, forgot earlier, they also want complete US control of the Internet. That's not bad, or anything. Won't lead to...
A: The fragmentation of the Internet into segregated national and regional networks, in an attempt to avoid US control or that of those following the USA's example. Thus, the death of the Internet as we know it.
OR:
B: See answer A.

China is full of corrupt shit heads, as is Russia and every other super power in the world.
Did I say they weren't? I only said that they aren't going to take this lying down. They'd be doing pretty much the same as America... Were they in its position.

Also when it comes to “Arms in space” you really can’t trust any-other country, but your own.
Durr. Kind of like (pick a WMD, or any exotic weapons technology)?

This is about the fact that the shitheads are going to weaponize space for the express purpose of dominating everyone else, breaking several treaties in the process, yet making the claim that "It's the best course for everyone".

The goals of the PNAC quite clearly state that anyone else attempting to put weapons into space before or after America WILL be attacked- there would be no matching America's capability, this time- like happened after WW2 when the Soviets detonated their first nuke. No new Cold War. No dissent. A Vision of Hope and Prosperity, delivered direct to the doors of the hopeless. Well, digital images of them, at least.

Or god forbid every conspiracy theorist is right and America is plotting to take over ALL OF THE WORLD! *Dramatic music*
OH SHIT PANIC

If this was another cold war, what we all just got done reading, would not be there - It would be a classified document, rotting in a filing-cabinet.
The best place to hide what you don't want others to notice is in plain sight- it leads to the assumption that you have nothing to hide, and "It must not be dangerous, after all!". All of the initiatives I mentioned in my last post are known to the public, and few of their component programs can be considered "Black".

Ever wonder why China, Russia, and even most of Europe have been scrambling in an attempt to at least keep their military capability in sight range of America's- even if, in the case of Russia and single countries in Europe- they can't pay for it? Ever wonder why in the 90's, all of a sudden most of Europe became willing to cooperate with each other in the weapons development arena? Hell, France and Britain are working on a joint Aircraft Carrier design!

It's because ever since the Reagan era, America has been working on a series of drastic overhauls to its military capability that will literally put its abilities at LEAST a generation ahead of everyone else. Put together. Being able to fight fires to "Protect American interests abroad" is no longer good enough. The military must be able to completely smother the whole fire, and then make sure it never lights up again.

Look tare me a new one all you like, the point is from what I'v seen everyone eles sounds just like Americans - Only with other political views.
Right in a way, wrong in another. It's true that EVERYONE on the planet, with few exceptions, is one messed-up, opinionated fuck.

However, the main problem with Americans- ESPECIALLY prevalent in those born after the Vietnam War- is that their parents, and schools have failed them. American society has failed them, really. Even as the size of curriculums increase, the amount of useful knowledge being retained has been decreasing drastically. Teachers are afraid of their own students. 60% is now a passing grade in more than half the country. It doesn't really bode well for the future, y'know?

The whole "Can't identify borders" bit earlier was more of a figurative statement of how the average American, and even our President, sees the world:
"US!"
"THEM!"
and...
"WHO?"

Consider the implications of that.

It's not entirely their fault, as they've never been taught otherwise. There are some Americans who've emerged from the figurative 'darkness' and seen just what they've been (and in most cases, are still) missing. Not very many, though.

To borrow imagery from your earlier post: The more America and its influence grows, the less everyone actually has. Even its own citizens. You might say being dragged into the "American lifestyle" would be good for, say, the third world...
Starving to death? A Big Mac should fill you right up! HIV? Here, take some condoms. People slaughtering you because you're slightly different from them? Oh, that's terrible. Damn Niggers, Gooks and Hajis really need to learn to respect each other for their differences. <RIMSHOT>

...Really. Given a choice in the matter, would anyone really want to end up exactly like US? I mean... seriously.

Christ, I'm just rambling at this point.

by no means is the American puplic in the dark.
It's pretty hard to assess from the inside, isn't it? When all you've really ever known is the dark, it's pretty easy to be convinced the lights are actually on. Look at... Communist Russia, for example. Or US.

Our leaders just dont listen really well.
They don't LISTEN due to the fact that they believe they already know best. They have no idea what Americans really NEED, and they don't care about our wants since said wants are generally stupid and mundane.

Due to the fact that the vast majority of Americans already have or can easily access everything they need to live- and live in comfort at that- they never WANT anything they actually NEED, since all their true needs are already fulfilled in spades!

Rambling again.

There's an increasingly dangerous section of our government that believes they know what's best not just for Americans, but for the entire world.

And what's best is having America "watch over them", extending the cultural empire to blanket the planet. Not achieving military hegemony, but obtaining such undeniable might that the world fears going against "America's vision", due to of the omnipresent threat of fast, unstoppable reprisal- the knowledge that there's no way they could possibly win.

This could be considered a natural extension of the overarching doctrine since the military restructuring after the Vietnam War- Imagine being able to deploy fast-reaction forces anywhere within hours, a Carrier group response within days, and being able to employ significant ground forces anywhere on the planet within two weeks. That's what we can do now.

Now speed all those times up significantly, add in an umbrella of armed satellites, infantry equipped with rudimentary powered armor with built-in, -working- personal IFF units, GPS and kinetic energy penetrator rifles, vehicles, ships and planes cloaked against radar and visible light, AI-controlled drone swarms able to reconfigure themselves in the field to perform different non-combat tasks (surveillance, repair, you name it), a lightweight, SAW-armed robot distributed with every fireteam, so on, and so on.

Now consider that nearly -all- of that technology is either in trial phases, working model form, already active in small numbers, or all the subcomponents are complete, waiting on integration. None of it is theoretical. Except for the satellites: most systems used in them would just be scaled-up existing technology. Thrust vectoring, KE projectiles and/or Nukes, etc. Though who knows what other crap will go into them.

In the system I've outlined, the rest of the world would simply be worn down by the percieved lack of any ability to resist, and in effect...

INSTEAD OF AMERICA CONQUERING THE WORLD, THE WORLD BECOMES AMERICA.

And THAT, my friend, is the "NEW AMERICAN CENTURY".
 
keyser Soeze said:
If there is one positive aspect of bush ( yes there is one!) it is that he helps creating a negative view of USA. He is probably one of its worst enemys atm.
Lol, I've never thought of it like that... :scratch: I guess there's always a good side of the matter, no matter how bad it is :P

Kan-Kerai said:
Do you ACTUALLY BELIEVE that would change anything?! It's not Bush! Bush is just the proverbial "silly monkey" at the core of the effort to keep Americans in the dark. He has no real power.

You'd be amazed just how many Americans have no fucking clue what's going on outside their borders, other than "American soldier(s) killed in Iraq, Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt adopt all of sub-saharan Africa, KOLD WAR II: Kim Jong bomb get!". Never mind, you wouldn't be amazed. Too many Americans can't even identify the borders of the state they live in, let alone the borders of the country. They're perfectly willing and able to be distracted by the monkeys, lest they have to think.

Getting rid of Bush won't make a difference in the world. Electing a Democrat to the Presidency won't, either. We're approaching the point where not even control of the house and Senate being wrested away from Republicans could make a difference. That's not to say that all Republicans are "corrupt and evil", and all Democrats are "good and noble" (hah). They're both top-heavy with sleazebags, and there are cat's paws everywhere. Republicans simply tend to have a greater concentration of them.

Iraq will still be on the razor's edge of a civil war (if not there already), the Middle East will still be feeling the effects and hating the US for it, North Korea will still have Nukes, Pakistan will still be walking a tightrope (if Musharraf goes, say hello to a country more powerful and dangerous than Iran in every way- they already fucking HAVE nukes AND a very capable military!), Everyone will still be wary of China's growth and buildup, most of Africa will still be the dying shithole Europe (and America) have made it. Nothing changes, but what's been changed stays the same. Getting rid of Bush is NOT going to fix everything their Regime has broken, be it through action or negligence.

And all it will do is slow down what's coming.
Good point there.
 
It seems that although America might have a poor education system, I believe that the noticeable difference is insularity, with less awareness or interest in differences in the outside world, compared to other Western nations. The US is not the centre of the universe, even if it is a superpower. So while everyone is ignorant, and the American students one meets IRL might seem more so, it is the insular perspective that is the significant theme. I propose that the problem is that national identity is subconsciously used to excuse ignorance. I am not right because I am an Australian. WaterChip does look out from the American middle.

We are not going to be stupid with the US. I believe it would be better if individual US citizens were stupid with us, as fellow members of the human race.

I think that reckless aggression would then be diminished, although obviously not eliminated completely.
 
to go further into the awareness of the world and insular perspective: the RSF (Reporters without Borders / Reporters sans frontières) just published their annual Press Freedom Index.

The USA is in the 44th place (North American territories) and is surrounded by Italy (hah, what a fraud), Macedonia, Bolivia and Uruguay.

the funny thing is that in 2002 the US was still ranked number 17 (surrounded by Austria, Belgium, Germany and Greece). a lot has changed under Bush...

also a nice thing to look into: the USA (in Iraq) ranks 137. please note that this has nothing to do with Iraq itself (which is ranked 157), but on how the USA relays news on the ground to it's own troops and the ammount of cooperation the US gives the free press.
 
Uh, Quitefanatic… “Be stupid with us.” was only phrased like that, simply because I had taken Kan-Kerai the wrong way. If all the world sees only Americans as stupid, I was pointing out that the whole world seems pretty stupid too. Hence the phrase. “You’re still going to be stupid with us.” If someone had said Australians, or Asians, or Spanish where stupid, then the rest of the world would also be stupid with the country in question. If in fact (Like me) you think the world is mainly populated by total morons.

I may or not be a total moron myself, I wouldn’t know. I have yet to meet a moron who realizes that they are really morons. The main reason for the rant I posted has something to do with this. The fact that I do live in a country that routinely swings its proverbial “Dick” around, hangs over my head on a constant basis. (Not the dick :P ) Simply by having been born in the USA I somehow carry its sins and stupidity with me. The fact that I’m American, usually classifies me as a moron/asshole before I have a chance to open my mouth.

Look, Quitefanatic I’ll meet you half way and agree that most Americans don’t usually look past our shores and relate everything back to there own country. But in defense of why I even started the rant… You did classify me as basically “The average self centered American” off of the sentence “Your still going to be stupid with us.”. When in contexts to what I had written “You’re still going to be stupid with us” meant exactly what you had written. But it looks like you assumed I was just some ranting American, who meant to once again relate the entire world back to one measly continent. I’m saying you missed the entire point, but I still agree with you. Still, Americans are as dumb as Chinese, Chinese as dumb as American, blacks as dumb as whites… Japanese as dumb as the polish. The point was: Mankind has tendencies to be stupid! I don’t care how it’s phrased, just try not to miss the point. Do you get the point?

As far as “Middle” goes. I’ve worked sense I was 16, a year ago I found I had MS my body has broken down and speaking has become a chore. I can’t really work anymore. Health care has all but been cut out of America. Without it I can’t be seen by a doctor, because the doctor I would need to see is a specialist. (Specialist aren’t obligated to see you, no matter how sick you are) Also thanks to the medical bills I have accumulated, I am no longer acceptable to receive financial aid from a collage… I live with my mom who, don’t make enough money to really stay afloat on her own, much less with me.

I’m not trying to give you a sob story, I’m saying I sure don’t live in the middle, I don’t have much faith in my government my country or my state and I’ll never have some so called “American dream”. So don’t think I’m some bloated American who only looks inward and thinks my country is peachy. My views don’t represent Middle America - Trust me.

Sander, I was saying political figures are morons, not political leaders. I’m talking about the little guys, who so often represent there country’s, and people. Now, I’m not sure about politics within Eindhoven , but the little guys within my state (Washington USA) say some really dumb shit, to people they shouldn’t be saying it to. My states own micro politics aside, just look at the UN. Good ideas and rational thought, don’t exactly ooze out of the UN.

Finely Kan-Kerai, The main reason my rant was even posted is because it sure looked like your post was saying: America is on a crash course and all Americans are too stupid, or full or “Patriotism” to see what’s coming. I was angry because that seemed like a pretty asinine thing to say. Though in retrospect, you where pretty right.

I’m not trying to ass-kiss, it’s just when you completely dissected your argument, and it made perfect sense. I’m not kidding even the things that sounded irrational, make sense. Honestly at first, you kindda sounded like you where trying to say. “Just fold the $20 bill” or “Just look to the fee-masons” and you will understand. Maybe it just stands to say, that there are so many irrational retards spouting off stupid shit - That when someone says something that makes sense you just dismiss it, as paranoia and stupidity. Eh, who knows.

Anyway Kan-Kerai you got a lot to say about the state of America, and the truth is I do to. (As, in the condition, and the issues at hand… Note an actual “State”) You should start a post.

Okay, so you are right! Fine… But didn’t China and Google, beat the US to the whole internet thing?

This is all off the point, you shouldn’t respond to this. It’s my rebuttal… Look up one post, SuAside has something that’s relevant to the actual topic.
 
Who said that only Americans are stupid? Stupid people I assume. Seriously, intelligence is a complicated and relative concept. Set levels of success at problem solving etc. would be arbitrary. A nation of geniuses might find the users of this forum slow, so stating that the vast majority of people are morons doesn’t seem particularly useful. ‘Moron’ is a very negative word as well. If an individual thought he/she was moronic, the reason would be low self-confidence/depression rather than positive insight. If one believes that they are more intelligent than most, it is unwise to bluntly say so, and better to demonstrate it through sophisticated analysis.

So it seems like WaterChip missed my point. I contentiously proposed that although the distribution of intelligence would be the same as elsewhere, the difference is that Americans generally have a more insular perspective, without awareness of that bias. Such as the use of a snappy phrase which unintentionally gives an us/them impression. Note that I did not say Middle America, I said American (unique US bias) middle (otherwise normal Western).

Blaming politicians for everything and arguing is fun, but a little unfair. Figures become leaders if they have the political skills, connections or money, and so on. They are human too and most problems are complex. Inept policy makers should not be elected, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were situations where this still occurred due to systemic problems. One has to research individual systems in detail.

By the way, the nick’s quietfanatic and SpellCheck is useful.
 
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