More versitile mutants...

[Locke Taelos]

I'm sick of seeing Super Mutants pick their nose, scratch their butt, waste my best friends with their mini-gun or flame thrower. Super Mutants were a nice aspect of the game, but lets face it. They're not mutants at all. They were products of a virus. Therefore their just...well test subjects. Experiments gone moronic. I don't know. I just don't think of a super mutant as a mutant. Especially since they weren't mutated by radiation.

Now Ghouls on the other hand are indeed mutants. But they're the zombie form of mutants. They're flesh is falling off, they got strange cancerous growths all over their bodies, they smell, and for some odd reason they're still living. Thats pretty mutant like. Heck some even have trees growing out of their heads like Harold and other ghouls in Chicago like in Tactics (its a perk).

But yet mutants don't necessarily have to be empowered by a virus, or have their flesh wasting away to be called mutants.

A mutant might be larger than humans, but a mutant might have two heads. Thus, the Brahmin in Fallout have two heads. I think it be neat to have a two-headed mutant in Fallout 3. You wouldn't have to have a race. See thats the problem with rpgs. They don't have enough original things. Every mutant in my opinion should be different. Or every "boss" mutant even. After all, Fallout 2 had that talking albino rat right? So Fallout 3 can have more special classed monstrocities.

So you get your two headed ogre type of monster. Lets have a mutant that has more than two legs. Maybe a three legged mutant. Maybe a mutant that some how got genetically crossed with that of some other animal.

Or maybe you can have a mutant that looks normal but has different powers. Perhaps one that could really get along with nature or something. I'm not talking about your typical fantasy magical happy crappy, but maybe its blood provided the sugars or nutrients that instantly got plants growing strong. Or at least to a good start.

Imagine a drifter's surprise when he encounters some sort of wasteland green house, right? And of course, you'd have the opportunity to shoot the moron dead or even help him/her so that the special ending at the end says that such-in-such place was covered by a lush paradisaic forest. Ya know? Interesting stuff.

Maybe some mutatations effected size or the amount of organs. Perhaps one mutant has two hearts (that you can target) and if you put one out of commission it could still fight on.

Or maybe you'd have some with robotic hands or weapons grafted to their arms.

Whichever the case, you could really go crazy and make special mutants in special areas that really show that in the Fallout universe, adventurers really can find anything.

And you wouldn't need races of those either. Freaks of nature happen on their own and are usually both unique and rare. So stop with the Super Mutant, Ghoul, and Deathclaw happy crappy. Lets use some innovation now.

"I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein.

 

[Guest]

Mutants should be more varied, but kept at fantasy within reason. I know it's written in stone somewhere what Ghouls officially are, but I view them as horribly disfigured humans (my soft heart has made Lenny one of my favorite characters).

I like the two-headed mutant, even if it's been done before (old time gamers may remember a two-headed mutant in Mean Streets, and I'm sure there are many more recent occurences).

The multiple organ/appendage mutants are good. To add a touch of realism, these should not always be functional. A third leg would surely be a handicap (unless there's some super-fast tripod walking technique that I am not aware of).

Normal looking people with powers sounds a little X-men comic bookish to me. Not that there's anything wrong with X-men, but it seems a little too out of place in Fallout. Unless it were done in a very subtle, well thought out way. Most of the post-nuclear mutations are physical, like the mutant's size and the ghoul's rotting flesh.

Robotic hands and grafted weapons sounds sort of cyber-punk, Shadowrun-ish to me. Again, not bad... but not Fallout. I suppose the Brotherhood or Enclave 'could' do these things, but what use would they be underneath power armour?

The Wasteland Greenhouse sounds like a good location to use. I'll have to think about the foliage-enhancing mutant a bit longer...

While I'm here I'd like to toss out one of my own: mutants that are immune to radiation. Not just resistant, but completely immune to all of it's effects. Throwing in a story element, some could have formed a salvage operation. Going into places like the Glow and recovering artifacts to sell. Maybe they could sell them in auctions to the highest bidder (your character could take part and score some rare gear). The mutants would be highly radiated themselves and would have to hire 'normies' to conduct the auctions. Also, in battle, stepping within a certain radius would cause HP damage (not just radiated status).

 

[Locke Taelos]

Don't have much time tonight but....

Well don't got much time tonight, but I'll just give you a few thoughts of mine along with yours before I gotta go to bed. I'm startin school again. What fun. =P

Anyways, wasn't there a special group of Ghouls in Fallout 2 called the Glowing Ones that could radiate you if you walked towards them? I bet they were immune to radiation, but I could be wrong. I actually thought ghouls in general were immune since in Gecko they were the ones in the nuclear power plant, and actually wasn't that why Vault City wanted to get rid of Gecko? Cause they were afraid of the radiation or something? I can't really remember.

Anyways, I didn't really mean X-men like mutants with special powers like laser vision or the ability to stretch their skin and stuff. I just meant like maybe increased senses like enhanced hearing, or enhanced sight.

Maybe one mutant would have a third eyeball in the form of an eyestock on his shoulder that has like eagle vision or something. It would process in his brain just like his normal eyes, only act sort of like one of those spectascope things or whatever they are on submarines. He could home in on specific objects.

Perhaps one mutant would have overly large hands, or maybe one mutant could be like those frogs that can squirt poison out their eyelids or something. Maybe it'd be a corrosive acid. I don't know, point is...if something is mutated all sorts of weird things could have happened to it. Maybe you could even include mutations in your fallout 3 character.

Now you have something like cyberpunk/shadow run with the cyberware or alphaware. Yes, its cyberpunk, but then again they had robotic parts in Star Wars and nobody calls that cyberpunk. Well maybe they do, but I never heard it associated as that. And Star Trek has the same stuff. Heck, what in the world is the Borg, ya know?

I think its possible, and in fact, they talk about it in Fallout: Tactics. When you first find that robotic hand or whatever in one of the first maps, they think it was a robotic hand created by somebody. The technology must have been incredibly advanced though they say. And thats not a good thing.

So really, maybe there is somebody that is forking over more technology than the Brotherhood of Steel. Then again...lets not forget about the phoenix implants and the dermal implants in Fallout 2. Wasn't that the same thing? Actually thats having your entire skeleton getting covered with a metal exoskeleton. If you ask me, thats kinda cyberpunkish.

So I suppose you could say, "Well Fallout 2 messed up." Or you could say, "People can't go about with metal hands!" I agree with you, but maybe an NPC could. Wouldn't it be need to be looking for the "metal man" or something? Or like fighting a mutant who has part of a mini-gun for an arm? Think of the memories and the yelling and screaming you'd have at the shock. =)

I always thought that Fallout should do three things. First you have California your post apocalyptic wasteland. Then you have New York which would be your Terminator sort of post apocalyptic world with the cyborgs running about eliminating mankind because man thought that the robots would fix things while they were out (I actually thought that before Tactics was created and turned Chicago into that). And of course, you'd need the south...something like Florida which would evolve like a Garden of Eden, it actually thriving to be a lush paradise with a people a bit like that of Logun's Run. It might even have a garden of youth in it or something legendary.

The paradise Florida idea given to me by that wasteland game um...I can't remember the name. Fountain of Dreams? Pool of Dreams? Something like that.


"I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein.

 

[Guest]

Mutant Madness!!!

RADIATION IMMUNE MUTANTS

Whoops! I made a mistake. That was supposed to be under the "Mutants who look normal with enhanced abilities" section. As opposed to ghouls, these are just normal-looking people who are completely unaffected by radiation. Actually, maybe they shouldn't be mutants at all. Perhaps it's a genetic thing that renders them immune.

For identification purposes, they would need to look slightly different. They would surely glow in the dark (and maybe glow faintly in broad daylight). Perhaps their eyes could glow green, like the freemen's eyes glow blue in Dune (You mentioned Dune in another post, so I'll assume you know what I'm talking about).

I remember the Glowing Ones radiating by attacking, but not by proximity (which I always thought was odd). What I'd like is for the radiation to be so intense that it causes physical damage every round of combat your character stands within their radius (an extra challenge for HTH and Melee users). If you stand within the radius of two or more the damage is increased exponentially.

Also, since Ghouls are at least radiation resistant, they could be allies (or competitors) in radiation related tasks.


IMPLANTS / ENHANCEMENTS / BIOWARE / CYBERWARE

I upgrade my stand on this subject to neutral. I don't particularly want them to expand on this, but I wouldn't be a travesty if they did. Maybe the implants in Fallout 2 were a test to see if the fan base would accept that sort of thing. They probably do plan on expanding it another degree.

You're right. Not all implants and bioware are cyber-punk.

Cyber-punk was the image evoked when I pictured a leather jacketed Vault Dweller with metal claws anchored to his wrists, dermal plating under his skin, and a datajack sticking out of his head. It looks... well... cyberpunk.


AND NOW... THE ONE! THE ONLY! THE AMAZING SHOULDER-EYE!

You must realize that Shoulder-Eye sounds very weird. Like he doesn't belong in Fallout. But then, the idea of a guy who talks to the bone in his nose sounds pretty damn weird too. Hell, Shoulder-Eye sounds more suitable for Fallout than that. And yet, Sulik fits quite nicely into the Fallout world. I guess it's like deciding between what's funny and what's just stupid. It depends on who you ask. I think Monty Python is funny, and yet, many people think it's stupid. I think Tom Green is stupid, and yet, many people think he's funny. I'd imagine the creators must agonize over how an unusual character would be accepted.

The problems I see with Shoulder-Eye are all trivial:

If he's wearing armor, how can he utilize his third eye?

Or for that matter, how do you incorporate the eye into gameplay?

Also, how does his brain correct for the third line of sight?

(If it splits his vision like an insects it would surely be a handicap and not an advantage)

Would a shoulder shot be a critical hit?

Where would he find sunglasses for his shoulder-eye?

Was that last question funny or stupid?

Hey! The more I think about Shoulder-Eye, the more I like him!

I want Shoulder-Eye!

Shoulder-Eye for President!


HEY BUDDY! CAN YOU LEND A GIANT HAND?

I like the idea of the oversized hand mutant, provided they looked real and not over-exaggerated. This can be easily incorporated into gameplay by giving him an unarmed and melee combat bonus. He shouldn't be able to use pistols, though. His big fingers wouldn't fit inside the trigger hole. Attention to detail adds realism, and, if they address it beforehand, people won't ask questions like, "How does he fire a pistol with those big-ass fingers?"

Well, I've already been writing this a LONG time so I'll try to address everything else when I have the a chance.

I'd also like to think about the N.Y. / C.A. / F.L. thing...

 

[Locke Taelos]

Shoulder Eye! wooo

I hadn't actually thought of the shoulder eye mutant to be something hilarious, but the way you brought it out most certainly made me laugh. Kinda like Monster's Inc with the green ball with one eye. It was weird, and yet, thats exactly what some mutations would be.

I would set up ol' Shoulder Eye to actually have the third eyeball as an independent creation. The eyeball wouldn't have a mouth and couldn't really talk, but perhaps whatever it sees, the main person knows what it is. Or perhaps he has some weird ability to like close his eyes and then see out the third one. That'd be kinda neat. So like if you blinded him or something (frontal vision) he still wouldn't be completely blinded. Cause he'd see through the periscope eye or something.

I think that a character of this sort should definitely be an NPC in the game. Or a possible NPC. And you'd have to give him a simple generic name like Bob. Or maybe he's eye is known as Bob and he treats it as a seperate entity. I dunno. But basically you'd have this floating eyestock on his shoulder.

As for the sunglasses, wouldn't it be sweet if it had an eyepatch? LOL, actually that makes perfect sense. In order to go about with normal people maybe he keeps the third eye all bundled up and hidden. And he keeps the patch on it so that it doesn't distort his normal vision.

Ever put on glasses that were way to strong? You get dizzy or you get a headache, or you feel like you're going to get sick. Well maybe thats how his third eye makes him feel if every eye is open. So he'll close his eyes to see through the third and he'll open them and pull the patch over his shoulder in order to see normal.

Way to much thought on Bob the Mutant.

As for that of the Dune Fremen, I remember their eyes turning blue. I think they looked more realistic in the original Dune movie though. The newer film they made kinda had those eyes look a bit fake. WAY to bright. The original ones looked bizarre, but strangely believable. If that makes any sense whatsoever. I could picture radiated ghouls doing that.

I still think there should be feral ghouls in the Fallout series as well. I suppose in Resident Evil we called them zombies. Perhaps you wouldn't turn into one if they bit you, but maybe their bite would be incredibly hazardous. Like radiation poisoning, so maybe if you didn't die you DID have a chance to turn into a Ghoul. I don't know, it'd kinda suck to turn into a ghoul in the game. Be to much like a Vampire: The Masquerade kinda deal.

Still I like the Feral Ghoul idea. I mean, you figure the Ghouls are rotting. They are baking in the sun. What if they just went nuts or their mind just went poof. They'd still need to eat, right? All living things have to. So they'd be going after whatever they can. Like a rabid dog. Hence you have your zombies.

I do like your idea about having certain creatures giving off radiation if you stand next to them. In Fallout 1 or 2 wasn't there a dog that could curse you or whatever? Like it would instantly give you bad luck all the time and it wouldn't leave your party unless it was killed? Maybe you could make like a forced radiated NPC that would just join your party and radiate and do damage to you and your friends all the time. That'd be irritating and hilarious and I love it!

Just a little side idea. As for the fact of battling something that constantly did radiation damage to you, that'd be great. And you know what? It'd actually give you a reason to USE A GEIGER COUNTER in the game. Imagine that. An actual reason to use it. So you would actually be searching for a geiger counter AND a motion detector before going to that area. Nifty. Perhaps you could reenter The Glow or something.

Cyberpunk Fallout? No way! That would certainly be bad. Not necessarily bad to the point of bionic upgrades since generally I can accept SOME in a Wasteland world. But I don't see any Riggers or Deckers in the Fallout universe. This isn't Shadowrun, although why NOT MAKE A SHADOWRUN GAME PEOPLE! GEEZ.

In Fallout we know that your character can get crippled, blinded, and all that other stuff. I think it'd be great if you could have an appendage sawed off and a robotic leg or arm put on. That would be really sweet. Read Marvel comics? Cable looks like someone I could picture in the wastelands. A metallic arm (caused by disease in the comics) big guns, crazy post apocalyptic clothing from a future where apocalypse ravaged the world (although most probably know him in the Blue and Yellow of X-Force or is it X-Factor? Can't remember). I really dig the loss of meat on a character.

And I still think that, realistically, you should be able to have like a leg bit off by a mole rat or an arm ripped off by a deathclaw if you get knocked on your butt during a battle. I mean, come on...if you're on the ground you're gonna get mauled, not clawed.







"I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein.

 

[Guest]

Further Mutations

THE RADIATED PARTY MEMBER

Now THAT is a good one! I like that! A radiated NPC that folows you around and does more damage to your party than Ian with an SMG! Either suffer or leave him in a bloody pile, your choice!

I'll refer to him as 'Rads' for lack of an official name.

After a long time as a drifer, Rads has settled into one of the smaller towns. Needless to say, his presence causes quite an uproar among the local citizens. Of course, they can't (or won't) get close enough to him to do anything about him. Enter your character. Kill Rads for an easy solution, convince him to join you, or ignore the problem altogether. Take him with you and suffer! If you don't get sick of him and kill him, you will eventually find a settlement of his kind. At which point you can say farewell to the glowing freak (or not, if you grow attached to him and have a stockpile of Rad-X and Rad-Away).

On second thought...

Most descisions are not between good and bad, but between bad and worse. Keeping this in mind, maybe there shouldn't be a 'nice little glowing town' way of getting rid of him. Just kill him or suffer. Like the thing with Bessie... (sob)


GEIGER COUNTER

So true.


STANDING IN THE SHADOWS

There are two Shadowrun games that I know of, but they're both pretty old. The older was on both the NES and the SNES and the interface is very unwieldy. The newer was on the Genesis. A great game, but it’s age shows next to today’s offerings. To tell you the truth, I haven't actually read any of the Shadowrun novels and everything I know about it I learned from this game.

If you have some free time on your hands, you can download the game's ROM and an emulator to play it at www.edgeemu.com.

As for new games... I can dream, can't I?


MUTANTS AND ZOMBIES AND GHOULS ( OH MY! )

I'm divided.

On the one hand, the fact that ghouls act just like regular people distinguishes Fallout from other games.

On the other, this would raise an interesting dilema if just as the Ghouls are starting to be accepted, mad flesh-eating ghouls start popping up. Maybe perfectly normal Ghouls just suddenly go berserk. Adds an interesting new element for the writers to play with.


TEAM SHOULDER-EYE: TWO FREAKS FOR THE PRICE OF ONE

The thing about Should... er... Bob's shoulder-eye being a seperate entity opens up a whole Pandora's Box of possibilities. I remember a movie where one of a pair of twins died in the womb and was absorbed by the other. When the other was older, the absorded fetus started to grow out of his brother's body. I imagine radiation would cause all sorts of unusual birth defects. Maybe his Shoulder-eye is his twin brother (imagine how that sounds when taken out of context).

The thing about not having every eye open at the same time is good.
Only opening the pair or the shoulder-eye at any one time works for me.

Also, is the eye on a stalk or imbedded in the shoulder?

 

[Locke Taelos]

The walls have...nothing. ITS THE EYES! THE EYES!

Well, that was frightening. Even for me. =O

IF the eye was embedded in the shoulder, it wouldn't really be very useful. You'd have to like bend your back 90 degrees in order to actually see anything with it. So I'd like to consider it on a stem. But wouldn't it kinda be easy to hit? I mean if you get someone like Wild Bill (Hickock? How did you spell his last name) or some sharpshooter, he'd probably blow that eyeball clean off. So in all reality, Bob would have to keep his eye not only concealed, but in a battle he probably wouldn't be very good unless at a distance.

Course realistically, if the guy was using his eagle-eye shoulder eyeball, wouldn't anything that he sees generally be off? Because his eye is on his shoulder, what the shoulder sees obviously wouldn't directly be in front of him. Yikes.

Of course perhaps the guy knows how to make up for the distance in his head, ya know? He just closes his eyes, moves his rifle a few steps to the right, and BLAM BLAM BLAM. HEAD SHOT!

I think Bob would make a better scout. Course what if the eyeball did get shot and killed? WHAT IF HE GREW ANOTHER ONE! Like a bizarre regeneration mutation or something. That'd be kinda weird. That would eliminate the twin brother thing. But some cancers will like grow feet in people's organs and weird stuff like that. So maybe a cancer on his shoulder for some reason grows eyes. LOL. I dunno, I'm getting stupid now.

But I think having an eyeball for a shoulder would be at an extreme disadvantage if your a fighter. ESPECIALLY if its on a stalk. Can you imagine some guy wacking it with a baseball bat? BOING-BOING-BOING

It'd be like one of those bop-em's we used to have when we were a kid. =)


"I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein.