Most psychopathic character in New Vegas?

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Dayglow Drifter, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. Charwo

    Charwo Still Mildly Glowing

    297
    Mar 9, 2017
    I don't consider her NCR pre se, but absolutely a sociopath.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  2. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    618
    Jul 2, 2016
    I guess the Van Graffs are less NCR than Crimson Caravan.
     
  3. Sublime

    Sublime Still Mildly Glowing

    265
    Jun 5, 2018
    If the Van Graffs can be considered RNC at all, considering their clear hate towards the Republic
     
  4. The Man From Nowhere

    The Man From Nowhere It Wandered In From the Wastes

    105
    Oct 28, 2017
    The Van Graffs and Crimson Caravan are just weapon retailers within the Republic.

    Cassandra Moore is the most likely psychopath within the NCR. Which is honestly one of the best things about the NCR's portrayal as a faction because as a high ranking official she throws a wrench in the goody-two-shoes morality gears. The NCR is arguably the best option in the long run with portrayals of Ambassador Crocker, Colonel Hsu and Co. but Moore serves as a demonstration of how easily democracy can be thrown out the window when one of it's leaders care more about saving face than doing the job right.

    You can keep her from doing too much damage by negotiating with the Khans and the Brotherhood or using the King's favor to broker peace in Freeside, etc. but you'll get Infamy because she personally doesn't like those options, but she will accept them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  5. Sublime

    Sublime Still Mildly Glowing

    265
    Jun 5, 2018
    What I meant was that, as Gloria herself states, the Van Graffs can rally a small army - not enough to wage war directly on the NCR, but still telling of their strength. They're not a mere Mafia Clan, but rather a State within a State
     
  6. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    618
    Jul 2, 2016
    That doesn't exactly yield a good ending for the Khans, as they end up on a reserve (to put it "nicely"). As for the BoS, it just means their tech raiding is sanctioned. It might seem goody-two-shoes to arrange peace with them, but it just kicks the can down the road.
     
  7. Ayelander

    Ayelander Big Man

    174
    Jun 30, 2018
    Chet is FUCKED
     
  8. WeissYohji

    WeissYohji It Wandered In From the Wastes

    175
    Nov 8, 2018
    Throwing dogs onto bonfires? Lanius is fucking cruel to animals! He's not "tribal". He's just an asshole. The Dead Horses and Sorrows have more class than him. They don't go around setting dogs on fire, enslaving people, or lashing anyone to crosses.

    The Fiend leaders are definitely psycho. Cook-Cook's a rapist so I ALWAYS kill him. I kill him, Driver Nephi, and Violet first. After doing Aba Daba Honeymoon, I then go to Vault 3 and kill Motor-Runner. They deserve that much.
     
  9. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    96
    Jun 27, 2018
    I don't think I've ever had the pleasure of talking to any of the fiends ahead of time. I usually just find them, get shot at, and then kill them because they smell bad and stuff. I end up running around with a bunch of heads of people I don't know, for a reason i'm not sure about other than... i think this will be important in my grand quest.
    Im pretty sure that makes the courier the biggest psychopath.
     
  10. WeissYohji

    WeissYohji It Wandered In From the Wastes

    175
    Nov 8, 2018
    Are you role-playing as an evil/psycho character? Either way, you at least killed a bunch of rapists and murderers so you did the Mojave a favor. Pretty Sarah and Corporal Betsy will both certainly sleep easier at night knowing Cook-Cook is now worm food.

    I've done the Fiend bounty quests with hostile NCR rep. Just switch to a NCR disguise near McCarran when you go to turn in the heads and Motor-Runner's helmet and you're good.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  11. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    96
    Jun 27, 2018
    I don't think being psychopathic can't help the world, I'm just saying that if a man murders a bunch of people and decides that he is compelled to keep their severed heads in a mail bag for little to no reason and feels they can not possibly ignore them or put them down, there must be something wrong with them.
     
  12. Rheios

    Rheios Mr. House's Employee of the Apocalypse

    104
    Oct 22, 2018
    Lanius did the dog thing in a war time situation. I think it was cruelty on a more Vlad the Impaler-esk cause->effect scale than anything he drew any sort of enjoyment from. So far as the enslaving people/lashing to crosses/killing cows/decimating legions thing, that seems to be just his position in the Legion. He's their monster, after all. He's a monster to other monsters, any weakness to him would be liability. I would not be shocked at all if he actually hates Caesar and the Legion, but after his "betrayal", when his tribe decided to acquiesce to Caesar, he's signed his soul away for revenge and a new face (Very Faustian now that I think on it). Then was put into a position similar to the Sword of Damocles, only the Legion holds the rope. For all his talk, he may be alright with retreating because he's fine with the Legion just dissolving around him if he can't keep it together. All that said, and maybe even because some of it? Still an absolute asshole, but I question if he's a sociopath so much as a addicted to anger at this point.
    ___

    As far as House goes, I don't think he's a sociopath/psychopath either. He's definitely got troubles with dealing with people, and he may have some sort of disorder, but judging by his faith in humanity, clingy-lonely "we're friends and equals" now ending, the way he feels pride or fear of your courier based upon their personality? All that reads as being empathetic and emotional enough to me, even his negativity towards most other people and his feelings of superiority comes from a disgust, not at their lack of ability of potential, but at their lack dedication to achieving.
    ____

    Then again these aren't real person, so its sometimes hard to get the same read off them you get from a psychopath/sociopath in real life. That weird, hollow lack of connection feeling, like you're dealing with the shell of a person who's right there cracking jokes and seeming friendly next to you but none of it feels real or meaningful to or from them. The same people who will use those jokes/friendliness to try and fain hurt if you don't break your own back to meet their expectations. (I worked with a Marketing guy who was this in spades, and then later warned a company I was at not to go through with a merger because of the same feeling for their manager. They wouldn't have taken my advice until he jacked up royally by leaving a chat window open during a screen-share) That's one thing with House and Lanius I can say they didn't do, there was no manipulations or subtlety, just straight appeals to wealth, power, or survival.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  13. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    618
    Jul 2, 2016
    Good options are better for business. Fearing someone isn't empathy.

    House's entire plan is manipulative. He gets people addicted to gambling. His deal with the NCR screwed the latter over--much to their surprise. Appealing to basics like wealth is just effective, and psychopaths have a hard time appealing to the emotions they don't have.
     
  14. Rheios

    Rheios Mr. House's Employee of the Apocalypse

    104
    Oct 22, 2018
    That's fair, but I still think the way he talks to you and about you indicates an affection and care. Which isn't impossible with [whatever]paths, but seems strange to go from an employer-employee relationship to that without some sort of empathy involved on his part.

    People get addicted to gambling, sure, but its not the source's fault. Getting mad at him's like getting mad at Jack Daniels for making whiskey and bartenders for serving it because some people are alcoholics. House presents a place of entertainment where you risk loss for reward. Anyone engaging in that comes into that casino, and to that table, with complete responsibility for their own actions and losses or addictions therein.

    For the NCR, its likely calculated to keep them just weak enough to stay war-wary, if anything. Lacking real commentary to expand and support this though, all I can say is the NCR did try to have him killed, and they admit it to you. Screwing them over's turnabout at that point.

    That's never stopped them from what I've seen. Pick a politician who makes an emotional appeal and you've probably got betting odds they have at least some -pathic tendencies at least, and are full blown at worst. That being said, you're right, appealing to any of that *can* be manipulative, but once he gets the chip from you I've always seen it as a straight "I hire you and we work together" deal. I saw no manipulation in it, just a traditional hirer and hired relationship. He expects you to do what he hired you for and gets grouchy when you don't - as he should, its like a cashier telling you to check your own damn self out and walking away after scanning 3 items. The manager's going to be appropriately livid even if you aren't. He also observably respects ambition, curiosity (he's not really mad at the Followers for their breach for example, just amused and pleased there's a potential market), and dedication in a way I read as being genuine and not just some weird act. Plus his little quirk about snow-globes and controlling things smacked more of a person who felt weak once and never wants to again, and so seeks to controls everything. But, like any character interpretation, I may be unconsciously projecting something. Regardless I have an obvious bias, being a bit of a House apologist if nothing else. I fully understand he's cunning, judgmental, pragmatic, and even ruthless when he needs to be. I just don't think there's any real need to be a -path to have those traits. If anything I'd question if he's a high functioning Autistic first. Or at least at the same time.
     
  15. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    618
    Jul 2, 2016
    I don't think the two are that easy to compare. The Strip under House is specifically designed to ruin people for profit. It isn't just gambling. It's 'House's enterprise' and the devil is in the details.

    Alcohol is just a product of fermentation so there's no preventing access to it (as opposed to casinos). It does have some benefits, in societies where good hygiene and sanitation aren't always an option (unlike casinos). So people are going to drink and it's better when they get it from a professional manufacture, through a licensed dispenser (whereas small scale gambling *is* actually less problematic).

    Also, bartenders do have some responsibility for their patrons wellbeing. Which is why is modern society won't let them dispense as much as can be bought.
     
  16. Rheios

    Rheios Mr. House's Employee of the Apocalypse

    104
    Oct 22, 2018
    The strips designed to encourage people to spend money. That's not even remotely new, hell, New Reno's not much different save for more drugs and murder, so its not like the concept of gambling being harmful is *new* to NCR members. House's strip is damn near wholesome. The only location where you ever have a gun at you over money is the front door to keep out the beggars and thieves that were making the strip look bad when they were allowed on, like in the early days according to old Ben. In no other location do you have any gun to your head forcing you to gamble but your own inability to control yourself. House is absolutely taking advantage of that but I find those people just as culpable for their own spending as any 'whale' in the micro-transaction game.

    There's no preventing access to gambling (Casinos, yes, but those are just a bar for gambling arguably and bars can prevent you going in). Just ask a prison. They used to encourage gambling, now its 'stopped' and much like with toilet hooch, innmates still gambling and drinking. It takes very little to lay a bet down on something. Just a person willing to offer a bet and a person willing to take it.

    Casinos are actually safer because there's less threat of getting scammed than a small scale game. Cheating makes a place look bad and Vegas, both new and old, are *SUPER* against that. It destroys the belief in the win, the high of victory. Plus there's less chance of getting beaten once you do get scammed than in a small place, so there's value in going to a professional location for that too. (I'd say no chance, but...well...Omertas. More than anything I think they're the biggest argument against House. Thankfully, I can kill them.)

    They're not supposed to but I think the law's far more against the drinker than the bartender. Far as I know, all they really ever need to do is call you cab to make sure you don't drive. Beyond that if you choke to death on your own vomit when you get home they're not liable, regardless of how much you drank. Honestly even then its because you get physically and measurably dumber and more impulsive when you drink, making it harder to stop. There's no external chemical in gambling, the self-deceptive over-consumption is all your own.
     
  17. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    618
    Jul 2, 2016
    I'm getting the impression that you don't think it's possible to be manipulative through a gambling enterprise, like the entire history of Las Vegas isn't just: basically nothing happens, okay now it's run by gangsters, hey look it's 2018.
     
  18. Rheios

    Rheios Mr. House's Employee of the Apocalypse

    104
    Oct 22, 2018
    I mean it *is*, in the context that they do little things - keep the rooms cold and extra oxygenated, use bright lights and familiar characters, and purposely apply extra noise, sound, lights, and congratulations to any win so that there's just that little extra endorphin high. You make games that have house edge to them (which is why you can't win money at playing Solitaire anymore and why 'Faro/Buck the Tiger' is no longer played - not enough house edge. In fact Faro was a serious problem at one point with people winning too much) and you advertise big payouts or low buyins to help shroud the really low win chances on some things. In Vegas there's also lots of regulations on the books about all of it anymore for the same reason the mob didn't like killing anyone in Vegas: They want it to look good and inviting and shiny.

    I also think they're more shit at hiding it because of their obvious obsession with distraction and the only thing allowing you to drink their coolaid at all is the egotistical belief you're above it. Today we have the internet who will scream at you the dangers of every vice under the sun and its common knowledge casinos are out to scam you in the long run. The illusions that once were are gone unless you helped pin them up with your own hubris. In New Vegas? You have to be escorted through a literal sea of losers and burn outs who fed themselves to an addiction and the house. Its not a secret what happens if you're not careful, its literally the moat of examples you have to look at to even get in the door. So in both cases I don't have much pity for the people who buy into the illusion. Same as I don't pity the purpose who blows half the paycheck on a lottery ticket. If you're going to be willfully ignorant, prideful, or stupid then you get what you've earned.