New mod idea: armor/weapons taking damage/getting destroyed

L

lust

First time out of the vault
Sorry about my plethora of posts, but I'm spending all my free time on my mod and it's getting to me.

I was digging through the script commands and it wouldn't be impossible.

Again, I apologize if I'm incoherent. I've been up all weekend.

Basically you'd need 5 or so different sets of armor per type -- one for each of the sets representing the states of disrepair.

Everytime a critter shot you, given the ammo type/armor type/whatever, it would roll to put a counter on a global variable.

When a damage threshold has been reached, a script kicks in which unwields the item, removes it from your inventory, makes a new item (a more "wrecked" piece of armor in the set), moves it to your inventory, and wields it.

I'm thinking about implementing this in my mod, after I finish the first city (lots o quests there!).

It would be a fairly substantial project, so I'm wondering if anyone would like to see it first.
 
while it would be cool to have that facility, I personly find it annoying whn my hard earned equipment breaks (system shock 2).

That being said as long as you have easy ways to repair the armour then it will be OK.
 
btw, its not a new idea.


While I understand how some peoplewant 'realism' such as this, I dont see the point.
 
It wont be so bad as long as its easy to repair the armour and doesnt completely break. Or you could just implement it so you only give broken armer to people the PC has killed (not every enemy just the main ones). This way the player has to fix it before he wears it. That would be good while not being too anoying, also there should be a shop in every town that can fix the armour for a small fee.
 
Well, you've really got to balance realism so that you don't wind up annoying the player and not gaining much out of it. And honestly, I can't see how damaging weapons/armor is doing more than adding another annoyance to the game. You're not really giving the character any new options: for instance, it's doubtful that you'll really damage an enemy's weapons/armor enough for it to be a factor in most battles, but the player will CONSTANTLY have to deal with it. Keep in mind that the player and his party are going to fight in many more battles than any NPCs (who are usually going to participate in only ONE battle), so things such as instant death criticals or weapon/armor damage is going to help the underdog and be more of an annoyance to the player.

You should really read the D&D Dungeon Master's guide...even if you're not a PnP gamer, it gives you some insight into the inner workings of how games should work.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
Well, you've really got to balance realism so that you don't wind up annoying the player and not gaining much out of it. And honestly, I can't see how damaging weapons/armor is doing more than adding another annoyance to the game. You're not really giving the character any new options: for instance, it's doubtful that you'll really damage an enemy's weapons/armor enough for it to be a factor in most battles, but the player will CONSTANTLY have to deal with it. Keep in mind that the player and his party are going to fight in many more battles than any NPCs (who are usually going to participate in only ONE battle), so things such as instant death criticals or weapon/armor damage is going to help the underdog and be more of an annoyance to the player.

You should really read the D&D Dungeon Master's guide...even if you're not a PnP gamer, it gives you some insight into the inner workings of how games should work.
Click to expand...

Yes I GMed for many years. 1st, 2nd-2.6 and d20/3rd.

I recall the section on "monty hall" campaigns.

As far as "how games should work," I merely wanted a money sink. Pretty much my only gameplay issue with F2 was that it got too easy too quick. After New Reno, I pretty much stop picking up weapons to sell except for the odd piece. There's just no need for money because at that point I'm sitting on almost 30k and a full trunk of SMGs. I hit SF with about 60k and a full trunk of energy weapons and big guns. All of my NPCs get equipped with the most expensive weapon I can buy the instant it spawns in the shop.

I figured with armor taking damage, it would give the game a much more "dangerous" feel to it, because you wouldn't be walking around as richie rich when you have to repair your armor.

Having less money means your not constantly geared out, which adds a level of challenge.

Also, since repair costs scale with armor, it might make sense to run around in the leather jacket (which I think is one of the best looking armors). Or donning different armor types for different encounters.

Bullets were supposed to be the money sink in the game, but that didn't work out too well because everything drops them.

I'm trying to restrict money my mod by toning down the loot, but I just wanted another layer.

From what I'm hearing though, there's not much interest in it.
 
I'm all for the money sink idea, but the broken armour things does seem like it's more work than it's worth. Anyone have other ideas in that direction?
 
Per said:
I'm all for the money sink idea, but the broken armour things does seem like it's more work than it's worth. Anyone have other ideas in that direction?
Click to expand...

I just say reduce everything. Ammo, weapons, items. And jack up the prices in stores while reducing the potential amount per visit. Then EVERYTHING would become a money sink, because then you'd really have to scramp to stay alive.

You'd definately be relying on melee weapons and unarmed more, that's for sure.


As for the armor, as long as it is always repairable, then it would be okay. Just don't let it disappear from your inventory when it's been damaged as bad as it can be.
 
I'd agree on the idea of making ammo much more scarce. So what if you have a Bozar or a Minigun, if you can only find the ammo to feed it once in a blue moon? It would force the player to seriously limit their use of the most powerful weapons until it is truly needed. And it would add another dimension to combat, as players would try and get themselves into position where they could use melee/hand to hand weapons. You could also make it where enemies don't carry a full clip with them wherever they go (you'd have to for a low-ammo Fallout); they've got enough ammo to squeeze off a couple of shots, but equip them with a good backup melee weapon. This could also take care of the "too much money" problem by inflating the price of the precious little ammo you can find for sale to many times more than the price of the gun.

For the armor, perhaps you could require Power Armor to be recharged with Small Energy Cells or Micro Fusion Cells in order to operate. Power Armor is really the only "Ha ha ha, foolish mortal" type of armor out there, and that'll also force the player to use it whenever they really need it, and always have a suit of Combat or Brotherhood armor for when extra protection isn't required. On a side note, it would also make the Quick Pockets perk a lot more useful. But seeing as Quick Pockets is already the most useful perk in the game, the point is moot.
 
The part that really screws the balance over is the fact NPCs carry weapons (and sometimes armor) around that can be looted (or sometimes even stolen).

It's logical that guns should be very expensive (especially the good ones) and that ammo shouldn't be AS expensive (although the upkeep for a minigun should cost a fortune -- I suppose automatic guns should use cheap ammo and lots of it whereas semi-automatic guns should use expensive ammo).

If guns also have a high resale value, it's still tough to keep the player from making too much money by looting. What would fix that then? Lowering the resale value percentage for all items, i.e. making selling items less effective?

If you'd only get 10% of the actual value for selling an item, wouldn't that mean that a crafting system (not talking about Fallout here) becomes moot because nobody would bother crafting something because the money gained from it isn't much more than what you'd get for selling the ingredients?
 
Ashmo said:
If you'd only get 10% of the actual value for selling an item, wouldn't that mean that a crafting system (not talking about Fallout here) becomes moot because nobody would bother crafting something because the money gained from it isn't much more than what you'd get for selling the ingredients?
Click to expand...

Yeah, exactly. Nothing pisses me off than a shop that sells me a item for x and when I turn around and try to resell it they offer 1/10 of x.

The problem is precisely because NPCs obviously drop whatever it is that they're carrying.

One solution might be make a lot of powerful NPCs but give them shitty weapons.

Another solution is requiring food (making the after effects of not-eating much like the after affects of doing drugs in f2), and making food expensive/scare in the wasteland.

In my mod I'm giving the NPCs just whatever ammo is in their guns, and jacking up their melee skills. I'm also turning the ammo respawn on the shops to pretty low. I want something where it makes sense for a player to have a rifle and a sidearm/melee weapon and adding that layer of strategy. I just like the concept of having to think about "wasting ammo," something that's not in the f2 game which shipped in the box.

That also means player may want to hang on to the cheapy 10mm guns for ammo considerations. I reallly want every gun to have a "place."

As for the armor taking damage, it was a consideration I'm having for the reasons mentioned above. The power cells for the power armor is a really good idea, but I think the combat armor should be just as rare/endgame.

This also means skills are a lot more relevant, because players would want to dump points into whatever they can scavenge (energy/big guns/etc etc)

Ideally I'd want players to invest in Energy Weapons/Big guns, Small guns, and melee/unarmed. No sense in wasting ammo on low level critters, but you'll want something really powerful if the situation requires it.

And throwing. Cuz you get the "ammo" back. =)
 
Ashmo said:
If guns also have a high resale value, it's still tough to keep the player from making too much money by looting. What would fix that then? Lowering the resale value percentage for all items, i.e. making selling items less effective?
Click to expand...

That is exactly the reason why I advocate making ammo much more expensive (and guns less so). That way, you make sure that most of the loot that comes from an encounter is useful to the player and less likely to be sold or traded, especially for a gun that will further consume the limited ammo supplies. It also puts the player in the situation where they'll think, "Okay, I have a gauss rifle that should take down this deathclaw in three shots, but I've got 100 rounds for the 10mm, and I could take it out if I'm careful."

lust said:
The problem is precisely because NPCs obviously drop whatever it is that they're carrying.
Click to expand...

I don't know how probable it is, but your solution to this might be to make the enemies smarter in their AI scripts. Outfit them with less (or less powerful) weapons and have them make their shots count more. I don't know how many times a mutant has unloaded on me with a minigun while I'm in power armor only to do two damage. And have the enemy react to the player's weaponry; if the player is toting around a rocket launcher in power armor, then the enemy should get in their face with an AP melee weapon (like the wakizashi blade). That way, you won't have to worry about giving the enemy powerful weapons to compensate for their own stupidity.

Reading back over that, it sounds like a lot more trouble than it's worth, but it would, at least in my opinion, greatly add to an area that's lacking in both Fallout games.
 
Also you could modify the critters to have the bonus move perk (or increase their action points), this will help stop the hit then run out their range method of fighting
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
For the armor, perhaps you could require Power Armor to be recharged with Small Energy Cells or Micro Fusion Cells in order to operate. Power Armor is really the only "Ha ha ha, foolish mortal" type of armor out there, and that'll also force the player to use it whenever they really need it, and always have a suit of Combat or Brotherhood armor for when extra protection isn't required. On a side note, it would also make the Quick Pockets perk a lot more useful. But seeing as Quick Pockets is already the most useful perk in the game, the point is moot.
Click to expand...
I like the idea of having to recharge the power armour (don't forget to change the description) but carrying around two sets of armour is a bit much. PA is meant to be a personal tank, I don't think you should even be able to pick it up and carry it in your inventory. It should of been scripted that when it's on the ground you use it and it's automatically equipped and when you take it off it goes back on the ground.
 
they is a really good idea! It should be possible to script the armour so that you have to 'use it'. The only problem would be that your couldn't use it on the other people in your party

The fuel is susposed to last 100 years or so, maybe the power armour could be scripted to run out not long after the player get it. This could prompt a quest to get it recharged. This would only need to be done one in the whole game.
 
I agree that ammunition should be more scarce. When I think of a post apocalyptic world, I envision something a lot harsher and more primitive than what I see in fallout (not that I didn't LOVE the game!). It would be similar to this line describing the world in armageddon MUD: It is a harsh planet where only the fittest survive, and competition over extremely scarce resources causes constant strife, struggle, and bloodshed.

I think that there should be a more survivalist environment, where everyone is just fighting to stay alive (no time to become a porn star :lol:). And regarding weapons, I wish there was crossbows, I think those would be cool for a post apocalyptic world, and survivors in this world could make them. Also, perhaps in a post apocalyptic world money would become useless too, whos money? Where is the bank? Maybe it would be strictly a barter for goods type world. I guess one could do this in fallout by simply not putting any money in the game.
 
Wild_qwerty said:
they is a really good idea! It should be possible to script the armour so that you have to 'use it'. The only problem would be that your couldn't use it on the other people in your party
Click to expand...
Well I always thought it's a bit much that there's so many suits of working PA around to be able to equip everyone in your party before you even got to the Enclave proper.

Wild_qwerty said:
The fuel is susposed to last 100 years or so, maybe the power armour could be scripted to run out not long after the player get it. This could prompt a quest to get it recharged. This would only need to be done one in the whole game.
Click to expand...
Or change the description to read that the power unit has been damaged and then have a quest to get parts needed to convert the armour to run on Microfusion cells? Then you'd only probably want to have to recharge the armour once or twice since you should be nearing the end of the game by then.

dude_obj said:
And regarding weapons, I wish there was crossbows, I think those would be cool for a post apocalyptic world, and survivors in this world could make them.
Click to expand...
Xbow over at DaC has made some great crossbow sprites for FOT I'll ask him if it's okay and if he says yes I'll convert them to frms. They'd probably work set to the rifle animation, if you can suspend disbelief.
 
dude_obj said:
Also, perhaps in a post apocalyptic world money would become useless too, whos money? Where is the bank?
Click to expand...

This is pretty well covered in the games though: In Fo1 you had the Hub merchants backing the Hubcap, and in Fo2 gold had become hard currency for pretty much the same reasons it always has been.

dude_obj said:
I guess one could do this in fallout by simply not putting any money in the game.
Click to expand...

This would be easily implemented at least by setting the value of money to $0. I think.
 
You could also make a hand crossbow that uses the pistol animation.

Along with the 'stick/club' animation that could be used as a crude 'sword' attack.

I think bows and sowrd were intentionaly left out so as to no appear to be a normal RPG hack and slash. It would be easy enough to make crude swords out of junk metal lying around. (I also think this is why there are no 'mutant giant spiders' as it is to close to bualders gate)

We are planning on releasing a couple of new images from MR in the next few days, that may or may not be new melee weapons.
 
Wild_qwerty said:
You could also make a hand crossbow that uses the pistol animation.

Along with the 'stick/club' animation that could be used as a crude 'sword' attack.

I think bows and sowrd were intentionaly left out so as to no appear to be a normal RPG hack and slash. It would be easy enough to make crude swords out of junk metal lying around. (I also think this is why there are no 'mutant giant spiders' as it is to close to bualders gate)

We are planning on releasing a couple of new images from MR in the next few days, that may or may not be new melee weapons.
Click to expand...

I think that's covered by the spear/crowbar/rock weapons you get. Also a pipe-rifle, which is about as low-tech as you can get. You do get a watashi blade, which is sort of a sword =)

I think a wasteland would have a lot more of those crude weapons than suits of PA.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top