One universal learning book

[Lich]

Introduce to idea:
I tryed to make possibility to learn every skills from books. Traditional way it require to made 18 books items with script. But i found different better way to do it.

Concept:
When item contain script, thay are storaged in backpack separately, so i made just misc items with use_on option and put whole procedure to player obj_dude script. So to read book you need to use it on your character.

Its only one item "books of knlowledge" from you learn randomly selected skill.

Chances to learn something new depend on your inteligence 60% and perception 40%. When you failure: only waste time by reading. When succes: learn few points of knowledge (amount could depend on luck somehow)

Charisma work as pesimist 1-3 and optimist 8-10 so when you cant learn anything new, character shown angry message "fuck this all!" or positive message "next time will be better"

procedures from obj_dude script: CODE HERE


Messages from obj_dude.msg

{200}{}{You tryed to learn something new from these books, but you only waste few hours from your life..}
{201}{}{FUCK THIS ALL!}
{202}{}{Uh nevermind, next time will be better!}
{203}{}{HA HAH! I LEARN THIS FUCKING BOOK!}
{204}{}{Life is great! I have new knowledge!}
{205}{}{After few hours of reading you learn something new about }

{300}{}{colts and riffles.}
{301}{}{heavy military guns.}
{302}{}{modern energy weapons.}
{303}{}{karate and boxing.}
{304}{}{spears and knives.}
{305}{}{throwing grenades.}
{306}{}{first aid.}
{307}{}{heal broken bones.}
{308}{}{sneak silently.}
{309}{}{lockpicks and thieving.}
{310}{}{stealing goods from peoples.}
{311}{}{field mines and other traps.}
{312}{}{high science.}
{313}{}{repair broken stuff.}
{314}{}{politics and flirt conversation.}
{315}{}{buy and sell stuff and earn money.}
{316}{}{traditional and computer games.}
{317}{}{survival art.}

Item description:

{54100}{}{Books of Knowledge}
{54101}{}{You never cant be sure what they contain until you read them. Its worth to spend some time on reading because you may learn many usefull skills.}

Picture for item: "books of science" from game

 

[MIB88]

An interesting idea. But, a couple of questions/concerns:

1. Would the book ever be "used up?" Or is this one book that you keep with you at all times?

2. Would you still put a percent cap on the skills you learm? I think right now it is set at 92%. If your skill is higher than this, then you will learn nothing.

3. I don't know if all skills should be able to increase past a certain level by just using books. Some things seem to me to be all physical...things that just come from practice that no book can really help with. The throwing skill is the one that immediately comes to mind.

I am mostly concerned that, by having such a book, if it never gets used up and if you didn't lower the % raised by the books, earning and distributing your skill points becomes useless. I just think you should be careful to try to maintain balance. But still, as I said at the beginning, an interesting idea.

Edit: Nevermind about comment 1. I see that the book is in fact destroyed.

 

[Lich]

1. Book disappear when you read it

2. There is no cap, you can learn to 300% But chances to learn one skill is like 1 to 18 so in fact you must learn 60 books to raise one skill three times. Thats why system is balanced, dont fear to overpower.

3. Karate (unarmed skill) is pure physical but do you known how many books exist in real world about such skill? Everything can be learn because book contain.. pictures! (how hold grenade, spear or knife to throw it)

 

[lisac2k]

Yes, yes, I remember... You had this idea a while ago, now you seem to give it a form.

I don't know how all of this "randomisation" would work in the game. My idea was to implement random found items in trunks, shelfs etc. Something like your book, yes. When the dude enters the map for the first time, a few random items (among them books too) would spawn in different places. A randomization script would be assigned to every trunk, shelf and other objects which would contain random spawned items, and that script would control the whole process. E.G. lucky characters would find more items and so on...

This was intended to be included in the Survivors (aka Survivor 2) mod, but right now I don't have enough time to work on it. Maybe one day...

 

[Lich]

Randomized stuff is good for replayability, especially when stats and skills have real influence to game world, so player will want to play the same game many times using different characters.

PS. Books about throwing realy exist! Look this one:

 

[lisac2k]

Yes, the replayability value. I find it dull knowing exactly where every piece of 10mm ammo in the game can be found while playing it for the dozenth time. Using this system there might some ammo in the trunk over there, there might be a book, there might be both of those or none.

It's really not that hard to make it, that's why I propagate it so much

Edit: Forgot to say that the book about throwing weapons looks interesting. I'd read it gladly.

 

[MIB88]

PS. Books about throwing realy exist! Look this one:

There was something lost in translation. I said this:

Some things seem to me to be all physical...things that just come from practice that no book can really help with.

I know books about throwing and other physical feats exist. I meant to add a little realism. In my example, I meant that a book about throwing wouldn't really be helpful, because the best way to get better at a skill like that (and stealing, for example) is just to practice (or, in the game, I think is simulated by adding skill points).

This is why I would suggest that the code be added that says something like "if x skill > y%, then nothing happens." This is the case with the books already, as books can't raise skill levels past 92 or 93. If I were to implement it, I would make y low when using physical skills, and higher with the other skills.

I agree with you guys about having some things randomized. That would be cool. That is also on my list of things to add. My idea was not to just have it dependent on luck, though. I always liked the idea of the 'scrounger' perk. I wanted to give it some use again, and use it as a factor. Also, while item randomization is good, my goal is also to have a sort of location randomization, similar to Becky's book in the Den. So, not only do you not what you might find, you have no idea where to find it...or even if it's there.

 

[lisac2k]

I agree, generally. One would learn more about repair (e.g. 5 skill points) from a book than about throwing weapons (2 skill points). This could be further enhanced/restricted by intelligence and other stats/skills/perks.

Many perks could be used again due to some small improvements through scripts. This could be a challenge for upgrading existing mods, or making new mods too.

 

[MIB88]

I agree, generally. One would learn more about repair (e.g. 5 skill points) from a book than about throwing weapons (2 skill points).

Nice. This way, it suggests the player can always learn something new, even if it can't be fully put to use. I like this.

 

[Lich]

best way to get better at a skill like that (and stealing, for example) is just to practice

Already i see its possible for skills where you use tools. For example everytime when you use toolkit some (unvisible) variable is increased and when it reach 10 points you get +1% to skill and counter back to 0. But its hard to increase exp that way on using weapons.

Back to books; they should appear mostly in bookshelfes. Each container could have own item genereted randomly, for example:

-Bookshelfes: learning book
-Fridge: food or drink (alternate stimpacks)
-Inside cars you can find junk (change cars into containers and junk could have value for repair and upgrade: required parts)
-Newspaper machine: catspaw.
-Trashcan: when search such container you get bad karma (it exist some picture which shown dirty man near trash) and you chave chances to get poison. But this container could have every possible item generated in other containers.
-Boxes: ammo, but already ammo exist in large packs, they should be changed to single bullet. Also it could be item: empty bullet sheel

Chances to find item could depend on pure luck but also skill. Change Stealing skill into Robbery. I seen that stealing is almost without use, so now it could have value. Robbery because some of items could be in others posession, already you can take everything you need from every houses without consequences. Skill failure could increase bad carma.

 

[lisac2k]

OK, waiting to see what's coming out of this... So far, so good.

Edit:

also, I don't like the idea of increasing skills through "using them in game" system. This system was used in Jagged Alliance 2, but there was no experience points (XP) rewarded to player and other team members, so they decided to use it and it worked there fine IMO.

In Fallout 2 each action is awarded with XP, which can be later allocated to the skills of choice. If player lockpicks the door successfully, he'll get IIRC 10 XP for it. This is a small part of the experience as a whole, and can be used later for improving his skills.

It's the system that's already in game, and it works. No need to repair it.

 

[Lich]

I made some progress on robbery idea:

-Robbery as alternate of steal skill, used to steal mostly from places.
-Higher steal/robbery skill give better chances to find items inside container.
-Each point of luck give +3% better chances to find something.
-You can search twice, because players could increase skill and try again.
But when you find something first time; there is nothing more.


here is script of container: CODE

and alternate picture of skill:

 

[lisac2k]

You're a hell of a modding machine, Lich. And it all started with a single universal book...

 

[Lich]

Upgrade of idea (this one is much better)


Robbery V2

Here is script: CODE

Now exist four ways to secure stuff from thieves:
(and four skills of thieves to get this items)
-Set trap : Detect trap
-Lock in safe : Lockpick
-Place Guard : Sneak
-Hide items : Robbering!

Robbering skill allow you to find hidden items (behind bookcase, under carpet)

Use this skill on scenery to try find something.

Use description to see if anything is hidden here.

Its not script of standard container but special container which hide valuables.

Standard container could check your perception and luck to find something.
If ( (dude_luck + dude_perception) > random(1,25) )

 

[MIB88]

I was trying to figure out how to implement that scrounger perk...to give it a use. The randomness factor was only part of the problem. Attaching the script to scenery as you say is the way I could get this to work. So, if the player has the perk/trait, and uses the skill on an old car for example, maybe he is able to retrieve a unit of flamethrower fuel, or a micro fusion cell. Or maybe the trait/perk might simply allow the player to find some other random item that would normally have no use but may be of limited (if any use) like some of the other items you created for the mods, like a flashlight or cassette tape. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[Lich]

I see now how much possibilities give new system (use robbery skill on scenery) There is dont need to change scenery into containers because when succes in skill, items go to backpack.. so now each scenery box can hide items!

But not only boxes could hide stuff. Cars could contain: junk, battery, flamer fuel. It open another way in game: ENGINEERING. Something similar to Arcanum game where you build from components new items.

Inside bed: spring, material
Inside broken car: junk, battery, fuel
Inside broken computer: electronic card, wire
Inside broken bookcase: wood

Use Multitool box will open dialog menu from you could mix these parts into some new items.

If science+repair > 50 then option: upgrade weapons
If science+repair > 60 then option: upgrade armor

If science+medicine > 50 then option: make cure to poison

 

[MIB88]

If you wanted to do something like that, TeamX's Mr. Fixit mod could easily be modified to suit your needs.

 

[Lich]

Some new ideas about Robbery (this version is almost perfect)

To increase chances to find item you need to use crowbar (similar by using lockpicks) Or you will use crowbar on scenery instead of open skilldex (much easier way)

You will known where is possible to find something by look on scenery. Broken containers are empty. When you use crowbar on bookcase you will demolish it (dissappear one scenery and place alternate, broken one)

Robbery skill determine chances do demolish something:
-bookcase 40%
-car 60%
-computer console 80%

Perception and Luck determine chances to find something inside.

So as robber you will walk around with crowbar and demolish everything in hope to find something usefull.

 

[Nology5890]

If it's possible to add Karma titles, for those I'd throw in "Robber" and "Burglar" (the lv. 2 form of "Robber"). You'd get them after you destroy X number of bookcases (for "Robber") and 2X number of bokkcases (for "Burglar"). It would make just as another interesting little stat, sort of like "Childkiller" or "Gravedigger".

 

[Lich]

Yeah, and this could work as extra skill which someone teach you (similar to gecko skining)

Script will add karma title to inform you about new possibilities, and check some global variable everytime you use tool connected to this "sub skill" (for example crowbar from robbery) Also check normal skills connected to sub-skill so you could train it!

For example Robbery can be connected to two skills: steal and melee weapons. So instead of replace one skills by other "better", this system will add many new sub-skills.

When you use "sub-skill tool" script check:
-karma (global variable amount: do you have learn this sub-skill)
-check (usualy two) skills for chances in succes

Few ideas about new sub-skills which you could learn during game:

Robbery: destroy stuff around to get items
tool: crowbar (use on scenery: replace normal computer by his broken version and add to inventory what you found inside: wire, electonic stuff or junk when failure)
check: steal + melee weapons

Herbology: made drugs from plants (cure or temporary increase skills)
tool: cauldron (remove few plants from inventory and create mixture in bag)
check: science + medicine (doctor or first aid)

Moder: upgrade items like guns or armors
tool: super toolkit (replace gun by upgraded version or junk because you destroy it during skill failure)
check: rapair + science

Miner: search gold in mine
tool: heavy drill (use on golden vein scenery which will disappear after examine it)
check: outdoorsman + big guns (because similar size and use of that drill)

Geolog: examine rocks to find valuable gems
tool: geologist hammer (replace big rocks from inventory to rock pieces or gems)
check: science + outdoorsman

I tryed to make something like sub-skills long time ago (moder, geologist, miner) in BSM but different way. I must try again because its interesting add-on to game.