Online Multiplayer

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Vault Dweller

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How about making Fallout 3 like everquest or ultima online 2. Imagine all the possibilities, you could become head oof the B.O.S or Enclave, you could be a supermutant, ghoul, deathclaw,etc. You could even be a shop keeper selling Iguana bits to other players. I mean it would at least provide more interesting conversations, and your partners won't be dumb enough to use burst mode when a friend is in front of them.
 
XOTOR!

I hope you bought another can of Idjit-B-Gone...


Ok, look.

For once, I am going to be nice. An oddly back-assward approach, and done on a lark, but I hope it works.

Is there any way you could keep the good storyline, in-depth play, and qualities of Fallout intact by making it into a MMORPG? Not at all. Look through the General Board archives for some past arguments on the subject. And see how those who were for FOOL (Fallout Online) can't seem to come up with how FOOL would be made without utterly destroying the current system, nor prevent it from turning into a shooter. Turn-based play would be lost, and so would the reason for why Fallout was made - a return to the Classic CRPG. In essence, it would be nothing more than a post-apocalyptic tiled shooter.

Wow, UO with guns....

Need I say more?
 
RE: XOTOR!

Sorry, it seemed like a good idea at the time, but for the sake of argument, just because it's a MMORPG doesn't mean it can't be turn based.
 
RE: XOTOR!

>Sorry, it seemed like a good
>idea at the time, but
>for the sake of argument,
>just because it's a MMORPG
>doesn't mean it can't be
>turn based.


Name ONE single MMORPG that is turn-based.

There isn't any.
 
RE: XOTOR!

Rosh, you're being nice?! Are you feeling alright? Maybe you should go lie down for a minute.
 
Sure

I've heard, that 20,000 gamers playing simultaniously isn't an exception for Ultima Online. Now just how where you gonna implement Turn-Based in FallOut OnLine!?! Do you have any idea at all what would happen? As soon as you attack someone and go into turnbased 19,999 other Gamers are forced to do so too. So you'd have to wait 19,999 turns before you can make your moves again! You'd be watching that f***** watch for days!
Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of really interacting with other Players, worthy adversaries (enemies= in case I spelled wrong) and not having the same conversation every time you talk to the same person. But it can't be done without altering Fallout to be, as said, Ultima Online with guns and a desert background.
 
RE: Sure

The combat system would be seprate from the other 20,000 players, it could just freeze those who are in combat mode and those who arent could just walk on by as normal.
 
RE: Sure

Well actually implementing turn-based into an online game would not be that difficult, at least for some aspects of it.

Basically the game is real-time, with a turn-based subsystem for combat. When you are walking around doing whatever, it is in real-time, essentially just like fallout or any online RPG. It will remain real-time for everything except combat (barter, talk, exploration, etc)

The Days would be compressed so that a day in FOOL would go buy every 6 hours (just an example) Though this is not important for the combat part of the game (which needs to stay turn-based) It is just some more game related crap.

Anyway back to the combat. In fallout combat is essentially timeless, when it is your turn you can take as long as you want. For FOOL the turn-based would be timed. So if you are battling it out with someone else (two human players) each will have a given time to complete their tasks/use AC points. So lets just say for this example each player gets 2 min per turn. This method would coexist in a real-time environment with no problems (none that I can see at this moment) as the turn-based would still be real-time you would just be limited to turn-based tactics, action point etc.

So if you were to be walking buy and saw two people in combat they would pretty much just be standing their, possibly have a little image over their head to signify they are in combat or something, as you could have for barter and talk.

Some problems I can see are what is to happen if some people are in combat and another walks up and decides to join in. He will not be allowed to immediately start using his AC points and, but will be worked into the Combat, and will become the last person to shoot.

Example.

Person A. starts fight with person B. A and B are going at it and along comes person C. C clicks on person A to attack. Person A and B are alerted that another player (person C is joining in the battle) If it is Player B's "turn" the sequence will go from Player B to Player A and then to Player C. This will allow Players A and B to complete their turns without being totally overrun.

Some other things:

*There would not be hex spaces for movement it would all be done by distance (one action point = 3 feet or something like that)

*Players would be allowed to leave combat if certain criteria were met
>One would be distance from aggressor. (So if you are being attacked by someone who is a rather large distance away from you, {don't know what this would be, lets say 50 ft or something, could be more just an example} you cold just run away after they used up their turn and no longer be in combat.

*If the aggressor does not inflict any damage, or rather small amount (as an example like 15 or less) the person who is being attacked could just run away in as if they were in the "real-time” mode

*Also if you were being attacked and were not confident that you were going to make it, you could simply hit the "end combat button" and run away, though you would be penalized for this. It would all depend on your health/Stats. So if you just didn't feel like fighting, but were not out of range, or had been hit for over 15 points you could hit this and return to "real-time" mode and simply run off. For an instance like this you may only loose a small item, some money, stims etc. Now if you were going at it with a bunch of people and were near death you could do the same thing. But this time you may loose some more valuable items, perhaps armor, nicer guns/items. This would not be a constant thing, you could be within inches of your life and loose something of lesser or medium value. Could possible be stat driven? The more danger you are in of loosing your life, the greater chance you have items of greater value would be dropped.

Well this is would not solve every hang-up of the FOOL problems, but I think this is a plausible means of using real-time and turn-based together. Well just an idea anyway.

-Zack
 
RE: Sure

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Jun-20-00 AT 06:11AM (GMT)[p]>Anyway back to the combat.
>In fallout combat is essentially
>timeless, when it is your
>turn you can take as
>long as you want.
>For FOOL the turn-based would
>be timed. So if
>you are battling it out
>with someone else (two human
>players) each will have a
>given time to complete their
>tasks/use AC points. So
>lets just say for this
>example each player gets 2
>min per turn. This
>method would coexist in a
>real-time environment with no problems
>(none that I can see
>at this moment) as the
>turn-based would still be real-time
>you would just be limited
>to turn-based tactics, action point
>etc.
>
>So if you were to be
>walking buy and saw two
>people in combat they would
>pretty much just be standing
>their, possibly have a little
>image over their head to
>signify they are in combat
>or something, as you could
>have for barter and talk.
>
>
>Some problems I can see are
>what is to happen if
>some people are in combat
>and another walks up and
>decides to join in.
>He will not be allowed
>to immediately start using his
>AC points and, but will
>be worked into the Combat,
>and will become the last
>person to shoot.
>
>Example.
>
>Person A. starts fight with person
>B. A and
>B are going at it
>and along comes person C.
> C clicks on person
>A to attack. Person
>A and B are alerted
>that another player (person C
>is joining in the battle)
>If it is Player B's
>"turn" the sequence will go
>from Player B to Player
>A and then to Player
>C. This will allow
>Players A and B to
>complete their turns without being
>totally overrun.
>
>Some other things:
>
>*There would not be hex spaces
>for movement it would all
>be done by distance
>(one action point = 3
>feet or something like that)
>

Uh-huh....

Don't mind me...I'm just setting a few packs of C-4 right beside each and wait for the timers to end. Not to mention any number of exploits and other crap.

Player A's Turn:

Player A shoots at Player B.

Player B's Turn:

Player B appears to be digging around in his inventory. But in actuality, he is holding Player A up in place by the turn-based system while he's in ICQ calling all of his gang-mates to come and help him out. And then wait till the last second to do his action, wasting as much time as possible, making it possible for the 20 gang-members of Player B to hopelessly surround the area before they "initiate combat with Player A".

Trust me, many people have tried to think of how to do this, and all have failed. Turn-based does not fit into an online game where combat is involved.
 
Self-incriminating stupidity.

>Sorry, it seemed like a good
>idea at the time, but
>for the sake of argument,
>just because it's a MMORPG
>doesn't mean it can't be
>turn based.

"Online"-games by DEFINITION are realtime.

Turn-based means there could technically be INFINITE TIME between actions. So what if one dude decides not to take his turn; just leaves the computer running and goes to lunch? What happens to everyone else? They just sit back and wait for this dude to come back, IF he comes back?

The only way to syncronize, to even ALLOW more than one person to function at once is to make it real-time.

-Xotor-

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http://www.poseidonet.f2s.com/files/nostupid.gif
[/div]
 
Nope.

But think about this:

Two guys fighting A and B, using your time-limited turn system. Player C comes by. What does he see?

He sees two guys standing like statues while the timer ticks down for one of the guys. After a little while he sees an action, say player A fires his pistol at the other guy. Then player C observes player B like a statue and after a little time, he fires his.

Great, player C says, and he dashes in between these two statues and drops four kegs of C-4 plastic explosives between the two of them. This, not being combat, takes no time. All four of them set for a 2-second delay, much shorter than the timer for combat.

Both A and B are blown to bits and player C gathers the loot.

See what I'm getting at?

The only way to prevent this from occuring is to have ALL players functioning in the same time system, and for online games, people don't want to wait, so it must be real-time.

-Xotor-

>Well actually implementing turn-based into an
>online game would not be
>that difficult, at least for
>some aspects of it.
>
>Basically the game is real-time, with
>a turn-based subsystem for combat.
> When you are walking
>around doing whatever, it is
>in real-time, essentially just like
>fallout or any online RPG.
> It will remain real-time
>for everything except combat (barter,
>talk, exploration, etc)
>
>The Days would be compressed so
>that a day in FOOL
>would go buy every 6
>hours (just an example) Though
>this is not important for
>the combat part of the
>game (which needs to stay
>turn-based) It is just some
>more game related crap.
>
>Anyway back to the combat.
>In fallout combat is essentially
>timeless, when it is your
>turn you can take as
>long as you want.
>For FOOL the turn-based would
>be timed. So if
>you are battling it out
>with someone else (two human
>players) each will have a
>given time to complete their
>tasks/use AC points. So
>lets just say for this
>example each player gets 2
>min per turn. This
>method would coexist in a
>real-time environment with no problems
>(none that I can see
>at this moment) as the
>turn-based would still be real-time
>you would just be limited
>to turn-based tactics, action point
>etc.
>
>So if you were to be
>walking buy and saw two
>people in combat they would
>pretty much just be standing
>their, possibly have a little
>image over their head to
>signify they are in combat
>or something, as you could
>have for barter and talk.
>
>
>Some problems I can see are
>what is to happen if
>some people are in combat
>and another walks up and
>decides to join in.
>He will not be allowed
>to immediately start using his
>AC points and, but will
>be worked into the Combat,
>and will become the last
>person to shoot.
>
>Example.
>
>Person A. starts fight with person
>B. A and
>B are going at it
>and along comes person C.
> C clicks on person
>A to attack. Person
>A and B are alerted
>that another player (person C
>is joining in the battle)
>If it is Player B's
>"turn" the sequence will go
>from Player B to Player
>A and then to Player
>C. This will allow
>Players A and B to
>complete their turns without being
>totally overrun.
>
>Some other things:
>
>*There would not be hex spaces
>for movement it would all
>be done by distance
>(one action point = 3
>feet or something like that)
>
>
>*Players would be allowed to leave
>combat if certain criteria were
>met
> >One would be distance from aggressor. (So if you are being attacked by someone who is a rather large distance away from you, {don't know what this would be, lets say 50 ft or something, could be more just an example} you cold just run away after they used up their turn and no longer be in combat.
>
>*If the aggressor does not inflict
>any damage, or rather small
>amount (as an example like
>15 or less) the person
>who is being attacked could
>just run away in as
>if they were in the
>"real-time” mode
>
>*Also if you were being attacked
>and were not confident that
>you were going to make
>it, you could simply hit
>the "end combat button" and
>run away, though you would
>be penalized for this.
>It would all depend on
>your health/Stats. So if
>you just didn't feel like
>fighting, but were not out
>of range, or had been
>hit for over 15 points
>you could hit this and
>return to "real-time" mode and
>simply run off. For
>an instance like this you
>may only loose a small
>item, some money, stims etc.
> Now if you were
>going at it with a
>bunch of people and were
>near death you could do
>the same thing. But this
>time you may loose some
>more valuable items, perhaps armor,
>nicer guns/items. This would
>not be a constant thing,
>you could be within inches
>of your life and loose
>something of lesser or medium
>value. Could possible be
>stat driven? The more danger
>you are in of loosing
>your life, the greater chance
>you have items of greater
>value would be dropped.
>
>Well this is would not solve
>every hang-up of the FOOL
>problems, but I think this
>is a plausible means of
>using real-time and turn-based together.
> Well just an idea
>anyway.
>
>-Zack


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http://www.poseidonet.f2s.com/files/nostupid.gif
[/div]
 
RE: Nope.

Well special combat areas have been prosed for UO2 so maybe that could be the answer. Anyone wanting to join in must wait 2 turns so they can't cheat. And no-one will be allowed to call reinforcements on their ICQ or whatever, as that would not be allowed. Also the turns will be time limited to 1 minute which is more than enough time. If you don't move then the comp will either skip your turn or pick a target for you (nearest hostile or whatever).
 
RE: Nope.

>Well special combat areas have been
>prosed for UO2 so maybe
>that could be the answer.

So we are going to curtain off alittle corner of the wasteland to have fights. But the rest of the place is safe and dandy. Ok....

> Anyone wanting to join
>in must wait 2 turns
>so they can't cheat.

So the whole zone is turn-based?
Nevermind the idea of "entrapment" if someone gets chased into the "combat-ok" area and more keep coming in, which brings me to my next point.

>And
>no-one will be allowed to
>call reinforcements on their ICQ
>or whatever, as that would
>not be allowed.

How would you regulate that? Unless the Fallout Online client actuvely blocked ICQ, you can't.

>Also
>the turns will be time
>limited to 1 minute which
>is more than enough time.
> If you don't move
>then the comp will either
>skip your turn or pick
>a target for you (nearest
>hostile or whatever).


A large, turn-based area where when you step into it, it's all in turn-based. Nevermind the inherent problems of when too many people go into the combat area, where all of them have to wait for all of the other players. One minute, and if there is even 20 people in there means...19 minutes between each of your turns? Even if they took 30 seconds, or less, that time adds up. If they took 10 seconds each, it would be more than three minutes between turns. Nevermind if the combat area acquired more than 20 people....

And the "zoning off" of two time-systems has been done before on an alpha game, but unfortunately it died once too many people found exploits in it and the programmers couldn't keep up.
 
Or...

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-00 AT 04:45PM (GMT)[p]You could have the game run in Real time, like non-combat Fallout does and once you go into combat you and your opponent will be transferred to a smaller, empty copy of the map to fight. Noone can set traps around you, you don't slow people down and if someone decides to go eat there are fewer trapped in Turn based (wich can also be solved by a timer). Only problem is that other friends/partymembers won't be able to join after combat has begun, nor will they be put into combat with the other players, because the computer can't recognize friend or foe (unless you would registre as allies or sworn enemies).

Nothing is impossible, but most this are just damn hard to realize.
 
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