Opinions on grammar for FO1?

robbforce

First time out of the vault
I've been reviewing the dialogue changes in Fallout FIXT against vanilla Fallout and compiling my own updates to the msg files. FIXT includes TeamX as well as Nimrod's dialogue fixes and many I agree with. I have still found a few places to improve because of misplaced words or when a sentence is inconsistent with that characters' dialogue.

One thing that I keep seeing is inconsistent noun capitalization. This was also noted in Nimrod's readme. I haven't been able to come up with a clear plan, so I'm asking for your opinions. Do you think it was a thematic decision to capitalize most items, some critters and locations? Or do you think it was used to emphasize certain words that could be entered into the "Tell me about" function of NPC dialogue? I'm trying to come up with a rule I can go by as I continue to review the text files.

Here are some examples to consider:
In Aradesh's vanilla dialogue, he mentions you should talk to Seth by the "Guard House". Looking through the dialogue file I didn't see any triggers if you asked him about the "Guard House". There were triggers for station and tower, I think. My preference would be to change that noun to "guardhouse" since it's not a name or title, nor is it a trigger for further dialogue.

Other nouns include "Power Armor", which was a change Nimrod made from the vanilla "power armor", to try to introduce consistent naming of items, as "Flare" and other examples can be found within the vanilla dialogue. However, many mundane items that the character can interact with are not capitalized, like computers and monitors. Should there be a distinction between items you can carry and items you cannot? What about the random trash items that have no purpose, but can be picked up? Would capitalized naming for every inventory item that has a viable use be something of a giveaway? My preference would be that all items have a lower case name unless at the start of a sentence or when it's a proper noun, like "PIP-Boy 2000".

Finally, "Rad Scorpions" can be found in vanilla dialogue, which Nimrod changed to "radscorpions". I would agree with this since it's a common noun for a species of creature. However, the vanilla "Rad Scorpions" was a trigger for dialogue with the "Tell me about" function. It's possible the developers used capitalization to give weight to certain words that can be asked about for further dialogue, but it's use seemed inconsistent. Maybe there's another way to highlight words?

Thoughts? Obviously I could go with my preferences, but I would like to share these updates, so I wanted to gather some feedback from other players. Maybe someone could provide some insight on the decisions to capitalize so many common nouns. Or provide your own preferences for dialogue and naming rules.
 
I just found this project and refresher on the subject of noun capitalization when applied to wikia entries:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Wiki:Anti-capitalization_project-part_2
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Capitalization_refresher

My preferences seem to align to these rules already. I also like the potential of using the wiki as a reference when something doesn't look right in the game text.

The only thing still missing would be a method to highlight words for the "tell me about" function. I never used it much because it seemed like a shot in the dark sometimes to guess which words would trigger further dialogue. I like the idea of highlighting, but given the limitations, it would have to be something painfully obvious like bracketing the words, which might look like "<radscorpion>" in the dialogue and I'm not sure I like how that looks.
 
Looking further at the Fallout 1 & 2 text, it seems like all objects and critters are named with capitals, probably for the "You see:" text when hovering over the object. On the other hand, nearly all NPCs have a similar description, but without capitals and structured like a full sentence. For example, hovering over a dog will display "You see: Dog" while over a peasant will display "You see a peasant."

To maintain the original flavor I think all objects and critters should be capitalized for the hover descriptions. "You see: Radscorpion", while lower case when referenced in dialogue. "Can't fight radscorpions without this stuff." This has been done by Nimrod already in most cases.

I can't decide on how to handle NPC descriptions. Many have already been changed to the object format, "You see: Far Go Traders caravan driver." While others are still using the old format, "You see a guard for the Far Go Traders." I'm inclined to revert these descriptions, so the first description would look like, "You see a Far Go Traders caravan driver." or "You see a caravan driver for the Far Go Traders." It's not consistent with the object descriptions, but it's easier to read.
 
If anyone is interested, here's an initial offering of text changes with Fallout FIXT 5.3 alpha as the base. I built a unified diff patch file with BeyondCompare. You can apply the patch easily in windows with TortoiseMerge, which you can get separately from the TortoiseDiff tools: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tortoisesvn/files/Tools/ This will let you review the changes before applying them. Select a copy of your TEXT folder as the directory when applying the patch. After the patch has been applied, "swap" your TEXT folders by renaming them, so you can see the changes in-game. Your original folder can be named TEXT_orig while your copy with the patch changes should be TEXT.

http://netload.in/dateiz3RjdC49Pv/MSG_review_01.7z.htm

Change log
[spoiler:4b124a5b31]
GENERAL CHANGES:

- Unwrapped text in changed files. This has helped me discover extra white space in sentences.
- Removed colons in non-player character descriptions.
- Added colons to critters and objects. Example: "You see: Dog."
- Removed periods and non-player character names in actions. This is consistent with Harry's dialogue. Example:
  • Old - "...stranger everyone is talking about. [Agatha sighs.] How can I..."
    New - "...stranger everyone is talking about. [Sighs] How can I..."
- Changed some long object and critter descriptions to short descriptions with an adjective and a longer description when you Look. This is consistent with existing items like "Hardened Power Armor". Example:
  • Old - "You see a dog. He seems to be following you." Look at - "It seems that you have made a friend of this dog."
    New - "You see: Friendly Dog." Look at - "It seems that you have made a friend of this dog and he appears to be following you."
- General punctuation fixes, like replacing commas with colons or semi-colons when appropriate. Example:
  • Old - "...begs the question, how did you make that passage?"
    New - "...begs the question: How did you make that passage?"
- Other wordsmithing attempts throughout, to improve sentence structure.


SPECIFIC CHANGES:

- Changed "the New Adytum" to "the new sanctuary". According to the wiki, the Latin word 'adytum' means 'sanctuary' or 'shrine' and the text implies they are speaking of a new sanctuary. May change this if it occurs too often during play.
- Changed dialogue references and NPC descriptions of Super Mutant to super mutant since they are more like characters than critters.
- Reverted "All-In-One Store" to the original "All-N-One store".
- Replaced "Tower" and "Station" in Aradesh's tell me about triggers with "Guard House" and "Guardhouse". Neither tower nor station are ever mentioned in his dialogue while guardhouse is, but had no trigger.
- Removed some stereotypical Engrish from Doctor Wu's dialogue. Almost all of his dialogue includes articles like a and an, so it looked out of place when they were omitted.
- Reverted references to "drugs" back to the original "chems" as the slang term was part of the Fallout theme. The manual also uses chems in all places.
- Hopefully fixed some problems with Duc, the wandering merchant dialogue, as his description would display ERROR. Removed some inline comments that I haven't seen used in other files, so I'm not sure if they are fully supported.
- Removed additional commentary in stat descriptions. (personal preference)
- Reverted the "Terrible" stat description to the original "V. Bad" as this is how it's described in the manual. (personal preference)
- Removed references to the SPECIAL system from stat descriptions. The SPECIAL system isn't mentioned in the manual and feels like a behind-the-scenes detail.
[/spoiler:4b124a5b31]
 
Nice work robbforce.

Some changes might feel somewhat out of place, considering we are so use to the original grammatical errors, and odd sentence structures. I can't imagine the guys at BlackIlse used a proper editor when they reviewed the dialogue and descriptions, and that probably explains the inconsistencies. I'm certainly no expert on the English language, even though it's my mother tongue. :roll:
 
IMHO I don't think we should change "New Adytum" to "new sanctuary", since later in New Vegas it's still called New Adytum (or maybe just "Boneyard", I might remember it wrong.)
 
Thanks for the feedback!

@.Pixote.: I'm being really careful about grammar changes since much of it feels like part of the theme to me. For example: Alya's dialogue feels very stiff and formal, but since it's like that through most of her file, I've left the dialogue itself alone and only corrected punctuation. I've also refrained from altering dialogue of the talking heads I've looked at so far, because they all have an audio counterpart.

@NovaRain: Thanks for the insight. I haven't played past Fallout 2, so I wasn't aware of it's name in New Vegas. The wiki doesn't mention anything about "New" in the town name either. If I change it back, I think I'll remove "the" from the text, so it reads like, "Welcome to New Adytum." Or I can change it to be more possessive, which looks like, "Welcome to our new sanctuary."
 
I'm trying to devise a plan to distinguish bracketed text, like many action descriptions and user actions. The text files use square brackets [] for everything. I find this can be distracting, depending on the situation. I'm thinking about this set of rules for bracketed text:

- Remove action text in NPC talking head dialogue. You can clearly see and hear the talking head and their actions already. I'm inclined to remove actions like [sigh] from their dialogue or replace the sigh with a pause "..." or a written form of the sigh. It should be similar to how it sounds in the audio file, like, "hnnhhh" or "hmph".

- Revert player actions, within the NPC dialogue, back to using parentheses instead of square brackets. These actions are generally longer and more descriptive, so they look better to me when written as supplementary information.

- Replace the square brackets used for NPC actions with asterisks. Actions are commonly written this way in comic books or in chat rooms.
Example:
  • vanilla - "I hope you have a heart . . . (She winks at you as you fall under.)"
    fixt - "I hope you have a heart... [She winks at you as you fall under]"
    new - "I hope you have a heart... *wink* (You fade into unconsciousness under the effects of the anesthetic.)"
- Leave all user actions as they are, within square brackets, like [More] or [Continue]. These actions should be the only text within square brackets now.


Does anyone else have an opinion on this?
 
I'm rethinking the bracketed text guidelines to something simpler. In my examples:
  • vanilla - "I hope you have a heart . . . (She winks at you as you fall under.)"
    fixt - "I hope you have a heart... [She winks at you as you fall under]"
    new - "I hope you have a heart... *wink* (You fade into unconsciousness under the effects of the anesthetic.)"
The vanilla and fixt versus the new action feel different to me visually. In vanilla, I imagine the character looking at Lorri through closing eyelids as she winks at him or her. While the new action feels like I'm watching the player character from above, Lorri winks then the player falls asleep, they don't feel connected. I haven't seen other instances like this, but I'd like to preserve this feel. To keep things consistent, I'm thinking of making all NPC and player actions look like supplemental text and only use comic book style actions when appropriate.

Revised guidelines:
- Replace action text in talking head dialogue and player options with comic book style actions. Example:
  • vanilla & fixt - "All right, [Gizmo snorts] here's the deal. Junktown, it ain't what it used to be. The only reason..."
    new - "All right, *snort* here's the deal. Junktown, it ain't what it used to be. The only reason..."
  • vanilla - "Here, dummy. [Sigh] You stupid?"
    fixt - "Here, dummy. [sigh] You stupid?"
    new - "Here, dummy. *sigh* You stupid?"
- Revert player actions, within the NPC dialogue, back to using parentheses instead of square brackets. These actions are generally longer and more descriptive, so they look better to me when written as supplementary information. Example:
  • vanilla - "I hope you have a heart . . . (She winks at you as you fall under.)"
    fixt - "I hope you have a heart... [She winks at you as you fall under]"
    new - "I hope you have a heart... (She winks at you as you fall under.)"
- Leave all user actions as they are, within square brackets, like [More] or [Continue]. These actions should be the only text within square brackets now.
 
Finally, "Rad Scorpions" can be found in vanilla dialogue, which Nimrod changed to "radscorpions". I would agree with this since it's a common noun for a species of creature. However, the vanilla "Rad Scorpions" was a trigger for dialogue with the "Tell me about" function. It's possible the developers used capitalization to give weight to certain words that can be asked about for further dialogue, but it's use seemed inconsistent. Maybe there's another way to highlight words?
The difference in spelling and spacing in Tell-Me-Abouts is inconsequential and can be ignored. New entries can be added to the Tell-Me-About list which can be set to play the same dialog/audio, so for example you could actually have the Tell-Me-About list look like this:

{1000}{}{Rad Scorpions}
{1001}{}{Scorpions}
{1002}{}{Radscorpion}

{1100}{}{Yeah those things are deadly.}
{1101}{}{Yeah those things are deadly.}
{1102}{}{Yeah those things are deadly.}

Regarding the capitalization to emphasize what can be "Told-Me-About" (heh), I have no idea. Possibly, but it's impossible to determine for sure.

Something to keep in mind is in the engine conversion, these will have to be rebuilt manually as dialog trees, so the capitalization as hints might not really apply anymore either.
 
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