Powerful weapons in FO3...

[Tiamat]

*Possible spoilers ahead*






Hey,

so far I'm enjoying the game more than I expected to, but I hope you can clarify one thing for me...

Why, oh WHY do you get the Fat Man and 5+ mini-nukes about an hour after having arrived in Megaton? This shit is ridiculous, I fought my way to that Galaxy News Radio station with few problems at all (on hard) and immediately got one of the most powerful weapons and killed one of the most powerful enemies...

Is Bethesda serious? I mean what the hell, even centaurs and "Super Mutant Brutes" can be killed so damn easily - two enemies which would have mercilessly torn you apart in FO2 right at the beginning.

There is no challenge, and I hardly see a reason to level up/get better weapons etc. when I'm just your generic FPS hero slicing his way through the enemy crowd.
I'm pretty pissed right now.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

No one is making you use the fatman, want a challenge? How about putting it on very hard and taking out the Behemoth with your pistol or Chinese assault rifle

In all seriousness I expect this to be fixed with mods at a later date making enemies stronger/weapons less powerful?

On a side note if I recall there are only 41*? mini nukes in the entire game. I think I got that number right from what I read on the Beth forums. And also just to note a total of 5 Behemoths also iirc.

 

[Sorrow]

Are the weapons used by enemies as deadly as yours?
Do armours protect enemies well?

 

[Tiamat]

Are the weapons used by enemies as deadly as yours?
Do armours protect enemies well?

Yes, they have powerful weapons too, but it doesn't matter. Dodge, shoot, dodge. FPS-style.
And yes, they are protected, it's a clickfest. But that doesn't make it difficult, Centaurs at level 4 are a joke. I feel they are about as difficult as 2-3 piss poor Raiders with a 10mm, it's ridiculous... Everything is watered down to be at the same difficulty level, it just appears like Bethesda sacrificed the real challenges in order to make free-roaming possible right from the start. That's Oblivion right there...

*sigh* I don't intend to be a fanboy for the original franchise, but some aspects of the game are truly f*ed up in my opinion. I hope some decent mods will be released soon.

The first time I encountered a pack of Floaters/Centaurs in FO2, I was shredded to pieces It made the world appear hostile, dangerous, creepy sometimes - and thus, believable. This aspect is gone. Or maybe I'm missing something and Behemoths aren't the most powerful enemies

@Bal-Sagoth:
Sure, I could just not use these weapons The Behemoth would've been harder then, true. Still, I finish Mutants off with a shoddy Laser Pistol I found half an hour after escaping the Vault..

Oh, and finally: Don't get me wrong, it's not my intention to brag, I'm no RPG expert and certainly no FPS pro. But the difference from FO3 to the prequels is striking in that respect.

 

[ShatteredJon]

Something really awesome, I just found out. The west side of the capital building has the Talon mercs fighting super mutants. Well one of those mercs had a fatboy. Shoot it, its fucking awesome. BOOM! No more talon mercs.

 

[deadsanta]

No one is making you use the fatman, want a challenge? How about putting it on very hard and taking out the Behemoth with your pistol or Chinese assault rifle

In all seriousness I expect this to be fixed with mods at a later date making enemies stronger/weapons less powerful?

On a side note if I recall there are only 41*? mini nukes in the entire game. I think I got that number right from what I read on the Beth forums. And also just to note a total of 5 Behemoths also iirc.

But you have the weapon for the rest of the game now, I think is his point. It doesn't disappear after the encounter, you now have the most powerful weapon in the game like 50 min after starting.

And I took out the Behemoth with my hunting rifle, because I never saw the quest update to get the weapon, I was just running into the building and sniping headshots. It's not hard, the Behemoth can't follow you there, cheap but intuitive.

I don't think enemy health and weaker weapons are the answer, either, it's stupid that you can shoot something in the head 5 times and it's still alive. The answer is more enemies, less accuracy in fps and more situations where your tactical answer isn't either "headshot, boom" or "circle strafe".

I have yet to use a missile launcher, grenade or flamethrower in this game, and that's a shame. And I can kill *anything* with my 10mm chinese pistol. After 20 headshots.

 

[Sorrow]

Yes, they have powerful weapons too, but it doesn't matter. Dodge, shoot, dodge. FPS-style.

Do they dodge, shoot, dodge too?

The first time I encountered a pack of Floaters/Centaurs in FO2, I was shredded to pieces It made the world appear hostile, dangerous, creepy sometimes - and thus, believable.

Did they even get close enough to hit you?
Anyway, it just shows that the range compression and length of turn in Fallout 2 made the melee monsters overpowered.
Too bad we don't have any other Fallout: A GURPS Post Nuclear Adventure creature stats than the Mr. Handy ones. I wonder how good would Floaters/Centaurs be in a world where an average person has 12 HP and Desert Eagle does 3D6 of damage which is multiplied by 1.5 after piercing armour and Hunting Rifle does 5D6.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

Something really awesome, I just found out. The west side of the capital building has the Talon mercs fighting super mutants. Well one of those mercs had a fatboy. Shoot it, its fucking awesome. BOOM! No more talon mercs.

Yeah I love the little small free for alls, when I came out of the final stretch to get to the ranger head quarters the Talon mercs and Super Mutants had this massive fight going and cars were exploding all over the place. I had no idea which way to turn to shoot

Shooting grenades in midair with vats/while they are still in peoples hands is good fun as well.

Yes, they have powerful weapons too, but it doesn't matter. Dodge, shoot, dodge. FPS-style.

Do they dodge, shoot, dodge too?

To an extent it appears, I have not got a chance to really toy with the AI yet and see what it is capable of. I encountered a Super Mutant who when I tried to mine a doorway noticed me doing it and he went around the other way.

Also some of the raiders will flank you while a buddy shoots at you if your behind cover. They also will not mindlessly shoot at you with a rifle but if they have it they will switch to explosives/rockets and try to flush you out.

 

[Tiamat]

The AI, I think, is not so bad at all. Much better than I expected after I realized FO3 is essentially an overhauled Oblivion.

This doesn't change the fact that the game is less too challenging.
And Sorrow, I only gave Centaurs/Floaters as an example, Super Mutants were a real bitch in FO2, too. At least from the beginning to mid game..

My point simply is that the supposedly strong monsters in the game can be killed far too quickly. Getting stronger and better equipped over a rather long period of time was an essential part of FO2 for me, but this RPG aspect is eliminated here.

Again, this is just my personal impression of the game after having played a little. Apart from that, it is quite good, I have to admit. Some underground locations are creepy and the overall design is alright.

 

[TheLastOutlaw]

Yeah I love the little small free for alls, when I came out of the final stretch to get to the ranger head quarters the Talon mercs and Super Mutants had this massive fight going and cars were exploding all over the place. I had no idea which way to turn to shoot

That was a pretty intense moment. It was also the first time I used the Nuka Cola grenade. VATS may have its negatives but watching the Nuka grenade go off in slow mo is EPIC.

 

[Tiamat]

Oh, I have to say that I'm impressed by the Deathclaws. I could still manage to kill one far up in the north by crippling its legs and then killing it with an SMG ( ), but it was MUCH more difficult than fighting most of the usual stuff.

 

[TheLastOutlaw]

And I STILL haven't seen a Deathclaw. (And I'm level 13 now...)

When I finally do kill one I'm going to drag the damn body all the way to my house in Megatown and display it. Probably on the workbench next to where I keep Lincolns rifle (now shot to uselessness) I'll be damned if I'm selling such an epic weapon to the museum in Rivet City

 

[Sorrow]

And Sorrow, I only gave Centaurs/Floaters as an example, Super Mutants were a real bitch in FO2, too. At least from the beginning to mid game.

IIRC basic supermutants in Fallout 1 had only 40 HP. Nightkins were the tough ones.
And Fallout 2 had some really weird super enemies like enclave troopers with 200 HP :/ .

My point simply is that the supposedly strong monsters in the game can be killed far too quickly. Getting stronger and better equipped over a rather long period of time was an essential part of FO2 for me, but this RPG aspect is eliminated here.

I remember someone bragging about how they could easily beat Fo1 with low level by shooting enemies with 10mm SMG point blank.
Also, how many times did you reload because of death before finishing the game?

 

[Tiamat]

IIRC basic supermutants in Fallout 1 had only 40 HP. Nightkins were the tough ones.
And Fallout 2 had some really weird super enemies like enclave troopers with 200 HP :/ .

FO1 was too long ago, I'm referring to FO2. And yes, some of them were really strong, but that's the whole point of such a threat like the Enclave, at least for me. Aliens, Deathclaws, Super Mutants, Centaurs... They all were dangerous, and most enemies are just a piece of cake in the new Fallout. It takes away the whole idea of a hostile environment.

I remember someone bragging about how they could easily beat Fo1 with low level by shooting enemies with 10mm SMG point blank.
Also, how many times did you reload because of death before finishing the game?

Again, I'm referring to FO2. Yes, I had to reload quite often, but that didn't take the fun away. After a certain point, you just got more and more experienced and gained better equipment. It was a rewarding experience, unlike in FO3 where Rocket Launchers, Laser Weapons and so on are thrown after me like poo in a Baboon cage.

 

[ShatteredJon]

Also, how many times did you reload because of death before finishing the game?

Once, and that was from firing the MIRV for the first time. Damn my shitty big guns skill.

 

[Sorrow]

That's weird. All that combat and you died only once? In an accident? I'm not a fan of SFLing, but it seems to be completely unrealistic.

FO1 was too long ago

...

but that's the whole point of such a threat like the Enclave, at least for me.

The whole point of the Enclave was that that their advanced technology like APA, energy weapons, gauss weapons, vertibirds and FEV2, not hordes of soldiers with 200 HP.

It was a rewarding experience, unlike in FO3 where Rocket Launchers, Laser Weapons and so on are thrown after me like poo in a Baboon cage.

I guess you have never encountered one of the infamous Fallout 2 random encounter battles between completely insignificant factions where they dropped tons of high-tech stuff.

 

[ShatteredJon]

VATS makes the game so easy its, well, easy. Not to mention my older days as a rabid UT player. Though I'm not much of a FPS fan, I do possess skill at them.

EDIT: Neither have I ever encountered two high tech factions dueling it out in FO2. I think the most advanced were the Hubologists vs the Press Gangs. Dropped powerfists and H&K 93's or something.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

Has anyone experimented yet to figure out the hp difference between the different Super Mutants? The "Super Mutant Masters" in particular seem to be take quite a bit more abuse. I do not exactly recall the names of all the different types tho.

I was not entirely upset with the Super Mutants in the game, the D.C. battles with the Brotherhood/Talon Mercs/Mutants are pretty fun to watch or get in on the action with.

First time I encountered a super mutant was walking towards an old broken down truck and (in what looked like a some what scripted event) when you get near it he pops out with a mini gun and shouting scared the hell outta me.

 

[catmeat]

u can have Bozar after 20 mins in F2 and noone is complaining bout that. It is optional, u can have it, but u dont need to. stop whining.

 

[ShatteredJon]

Whoa catmeat, where did that come from? Also, you can't get a Bozar in 20 minutes without first knowing about it. And then good luck getting to NCR without dying as a level 2.