For some reason, i find that the newer RPGs that are coming out just do not give me the same feel as playing rpgs that came out a few years back. The look nicer and all, but they just don't seem to have the same quality of content. Anyone else feel the same? I feel that the trend of going 3D graphics has made RPGs much more linear in story.
Problem with today's RPGs
- Thread starter edliu512
- Start date
MethidParadox
Still Mildly Glowing
I think that is the problem with every single new game today
- NO Creativity -
People just dont want to spend the time (remember, time = money) to make things interesting. They have to be instantly entertaining and just barely good enough to keep sales up, while also promoting the sales of future products from that company.
I hate that, hate is a strong word, and i HATE it
- NO Creativity -
People just dont want to spend the time (remember, time = money) to make things interesting. They have to be instantly entertaining and just barely good enough to keep sales up, while also promoting the sales of future products from that company.
I hate that, hate is a strong word, and i HATE it
Most people, kids especially, want nothing more than pretty graphics, so that is were all of the development time goes. It's all about whos got the best 3D engine and graphics these days.
It's 100% possible to make a 3D RPG with nice graphics, that also has a compelling and non linear story. Does that mean it'll happen? Probably not.
It also seems, to me at least, that people want nothing but action games anymore. Forget putting any thought or strategy into what your doing, just run and gun baby, run and gun.
Not that i don't enjoy a good FPS myself, but i do miss the days of excellent RPGs. Back in the day when pretty graphics weren't possible, more emphasis had to be put into gameplay, but nowadays it's just easier to focus all on graphics i suppose.
It's my hope that this trend won't last forever though. Pretty graphics and no real gameplay underneath gets really old eventually, at least to me. Hopefully others feel that same, and in time won't accept this anymore.
Or maybe i'm just dreaming.
It's 100% possible to make a 3D RPG with nice graphics, that also has a compelling and non linear story. Does that mean it'll happen? Probably not.
It also seems, to me at least, that people want nothing but action games anymore. Forget putting any thought or strategy into what your doing, just run and gun baby, run and gun.
Not that i don't enjoy a good FPS myself, but i do miss the days of excellent RPGs. Back in the day when pretty graphics weren't possible, more emphasis had to be put into gameplay, but nowadays it's just easier to focus all on graphics i suppose.
It's my hope that this trend won't last forever though. Pretty graphics and no real gameplay underneath gets really old eventually, at least to me. Hopefully others feel that same, and in time won't accept this anymore.
Or maybe i'm just dreaming.
MethidParadox
Still Mildly Glowing
Your just dreaming....
Society is getting dumber, not smarter
The bounds of intellectual gaming is dropping as more and more stoned idiots spit out their parents welfare money to buy shooting games.
=/
Society is getting dumber, not smarter
The bounds of intellectual gaming is dropping as more and more stoned idiots spit out their parents welfare money to buy shooting games.
=/
MethidParadox
Still Mildly Glowing
yea, it'll be rather caotic... spelling?
But thats ok, becuase for every drug addict and trouble maker there is a group of fanatics that want to control these people...
As long as I avoid drug addicts and fanatics i'll be fine.
=)
But thats ok, becuase for every drug addict and trouble maker there is a group of fanatics that want to control these people...
As long as I avoid drug addicts and fanatics i'll be fine.
=)
Aktins Diet
It Wandered In From the Wastes
you hit the nail on the head my friend. ITs people like us who are keeping this country, and all the others (depending were you are from) alive. WE are the ones who set order. THe dumb ones just follow and depend on us.MethidParadox said:
*sighs* sadly, a lot od smart people want power, not benefiting everyone.
anyways, yes, its hard to find a good game like that.
Look at Halo, it has a compelling story, and good graphics, sure it was the run and blow up kind of game, but it had plot in it, a STORY. Half Life 2's single player sucks compared to halo's. (h2 beats halos ass on mp though
)A lot of FPS's are being released with "strong" stories these days. Its starting to blur the line of RPG and Story based Action games. There was a lull a few years back in the platformer field. PC Gamer and EGM both had big articles discussing this and asking why such a fun type of game wasn't being created anymore. Then a year later, platformer's were the most developed games on the market, and a few of them actually shined. I kinda feel true RPG's are going through this lull (at least PC RPG's, and I can't play re-hashed console sequels anymore). I think once the development community realizes the RPG community doesn't just want persistant worlds (MMO), with stories that fly right out and make no sense so the dev's can keep up with the player community, there will be an influx of new RPG's. A lot of them will just be out to make a buck and play on our cravings, but hopefully a few of them will shine. If 20 different RPG titles come out in 2006, and 16 of them are trash, 3 of them are good, and one is as good as Fallout/Ultima/The Elder Scrolls, then I will be one happy gamer, due to the fact that there could be a new strong RPG franchise on the horizon.
Of course I could just be completely optomistic and we could be part of a dying dream.
Of course I could just be completely optomistic and we could be part of a dying dream.
Mith it takes people like you to go out and make change. You may get lucky and someone may walk the same path and make the changes you seek. Ultimately it will be up to you to go out and lobby for diversity in the market.
And I REALLY don’t know what Aktins Diet is talking about so I will leave that one alone.
And I REALLY don’t know what Aktins Diet is talking about so I will leave that one alone.
mettalhed said:
I'm hoping that we will have robots to think for us while we are parked permanently in armchairs in front of television sets, and have the technique to instantly teleport fast food to our homes.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
actually the problem started because of john romero.
he got the whole video acceleration craze going because of adding hardware optimized drivers for the vodoo cards to games like quake and quake 2.
even before then graphics were starting to get higher quality because lots of game magazines started rating based upon the graphics. good graphics means higher ratings. higher ratings means better reccomendation. better reccomendation means more sales.
the problem is, more immediate sales do not guarentee success. sucess is determined by several things.
1) do people continously purchase the product even 1 year after release?
2) how long do fan sites/fan boards last after release?
3) was the first game "good enough" to put out a sequel that people will buy?
graphics are probably in reality the last thing that determines a games long term success. but graphics help garner short-term sales.
graphics: short-term sales
game play: long-term sales
story: long-term sales
re-playability/variance: long-term sales
magazine reccomendation: short-term sales
pre-release community: short-term sales
post-release community: long-term sales
post-release support: long-term sales
engine quality: long-term sales
purchasing good vendor POS locations in retailers: short-term sales
advertising: short-term sales
its actually quite easy to tell where development time should go, but lots of time managment wants to make the quick buck, rather than a continous paycheck. thats why you see so many patches out for games all the time.
look at ultima 9... it was a huge disaster to get it made, and getting it released. but as soon as they had a working patch out, admittedly it didnt fix all the bugs, but they put up a site for people to register to get a FREE cd with the patch on it. how many times has that EVER happened since even say 1996.
he got the whole video acceleration craze going because of adding hardware optimized drivers for the vodoo cards to games like quake and quake 2.
even before then graphics were starting to get higher quality because lots of game magazines started rating based upon the graphics. good graphics means higher ratings. higher ratings means better reccomendation. better reccomendation means more sales.
the problem is, more immediate sales do not guarentee success. sucess is determined by several things.
1) do people continously purchase the product even 1 year after release?
2) how long do fan sites/fan boards last after release?
3) was the first game "good enough" to put out a sequel that people will buy?
graphics are probably in reality the last thing that determines a games long term success. but graphics help garner short-term sales.
graphics: short-term sales
game play: long-term sales
story: long-term sales
re-playability/variance: long-term sales
magazine reccomendation: short-term sales
pre-release community: short-term sales
post-release community: long-term sales
post-release support: long-term sales
engine quality: long-term sales
purchasing good vendor POS locations in retailers: short-term sales
advertising: short-term sales
its actually quite easy to tell where development time should go, but lots of time managment wants to make the quick buck, rather than a continous paycheck. thats why you see so many patches out for games all the time.
look at ultima 9... it was a huge disaster to get it made, and getting it released. but as soon as they had a working patch out, admittedly it didnt fix all the bugs, but they put up a site for people to register to get a FREE cd with the patch on it. how many times has that EVER happened since even say 1996.
greatatlantic
It Wandered In From the Wastes
MethidParadox said:
Nah, society was always a bunch of idiots and has been for some time and there is no evidence of that changing any time soon. What has happened is computers have become a defacto standard in modern life. Everyone needs email, word processors, and Map Quest. This includs stupid people, so computers had to be made more accessible. Since stupid people always outnumbered smart ones, they become the market driving force. And what sort of games do they buy? Anything that looks great, sounds great, and doesn't require complex thoughts. Plus mega negatives on anything that wiffs of nerdiness.
Add to that all the little kiddies getting computers or consoles to play games on, who actually have a lot of time to play a lot of games. Since RPGs rarely look great, and sound is hit and miss, and they require a lot of complex thought (the kind people here tend to like anyways), the don't sell as well. Instead, you get "Film to Game: Poorly Made Cash In" and "Something Simulator".
Is the future any brighter? Sure, eventually the technology rush will level off, companies will concentrate on the existing technology, and developers can once again focus on gameplay. Since the Geek community isn't going away, they'll still be people playing PnP in the background. From this computer RPGs might be kept alive.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so (courtesy of Monk).
They should make an RPG using the "LotR: Return of the King" graphics. I mean, that game looks really cool... it would be so friggin awesome if they made Fallout with those graphics. Or if they make another LotR game, with those graphics and the Fallout gameplay. Caus I mean, the only RPG-ish thing about LotR:Rotk is that you level up. Furthermore it's just hack 'n slash.
SimpleMinded
Vault Fossil
Morpoggel said:
They tried making an RPG in the LotR realm with the Third Age. Okay, maybe not an RPG per se, but the console's Final Fantasy "RPG" and it fell flat. The game, put simply, sucked major monkey balls. The story was boring and the characters were flat. After that, I don't know if any publishers would risk putting an RPG in middle earth anytime soon.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
-------------------
And they halted all bugfixing immediately afterwards?
-------------------
that free patched cd was one of the last things that richard garriot was able to force onto EA before they stripped him of all power.
the halting of bug-fixing was done by EA because it was taking dev time away from UO.
And they halted all bugfixing immediately afterwards?
-------------------
that free patched cd was one of the last things that richard garriot was able to force onto EA before they stripped him of all power.
the halting of bug-fixing was done by EA because it was taking dev time away from UO.
What makes you think people are stupid just because they don't like to buy high quality games and buy shit instead? Maybe they aren't savvy when it comes to gaming, or aren't serious gamers at all, but this doesn't equal stupid. People are smart, they just don't care about the same things. The problem is that the video game industry has now reached main stream success, and thus companies try to pick up as large a swath of the market as possible as opposed to tailoring games for hardcore gamers. Think about the movie industry: most films aren't considered great examples of filmwork and recycle similar ideas without making a lot of great new movies. But the thing is, good movies are still made. The industry can put out such a large volume of product that not all of it has to be a huge blockbuster success, and not every project has to be made trying to pick up as large an audience as possible. The gaming industry may well reach that point soon, but it is still mostly considered in its infancy (although not for long). Once the industry is more solidified, companies may go back to making a wide variety of games, including high quality RPGs that are made to be good, not just have wide appeal.
Oh, and being an asshole about people who don't share your tastes doesn't accomplish anything.
Oh, and being an asshole about people who don't share your tastes doesn't accomplish anything.
billcd said:
You should have said that, instead, as it is clear the industry is obviously far older than you are. The industry is already quite solidified, with a number of publishers that follow their marketing departments over anything else. Publishers don't give a flying fuck about pandering to Wal-Mart, in fact it is quite the opposite. It was a few publishers of note that STARTED this bullshit, and Warren should know exactly whom.
Since the publisher already has the title as shipped, the store could mark it down by $20 and still make a profit, the only loss is from the customer's wallet. Some developers care (others take advantage of the Lowest Common Denominator), the more wise gamers would care because they have played something other than trend-chasing shit. That is the true problem, is that if nobody in business control cares, the publisher will fuck both ends of the line, and HARD. And happily.
Why? If they go through life how you have gone into this discussion, then yes, they have failed basic education and the principles of evolution, and their loss from the rest of the 5 Billion herd will not really be missed.
What makes me think you are stupid just because you don't care to use anything close to common sense, instead going for a moronic straw man? Seriously, go back and read what you have written to see how unbelievably fucking moronic you sound.
In case you couldn't understand it on your own, I will point out the obvious. People who buy shit games are morons who didn't let the real idiots who buy at full price at release, including reviewers good and bad, give their impressions on the game, and then go out and make an informed opinion. If stupid people did not exist, then shit like Chaos Legion and the OCD release schedule of the later MegaMan games would not have been entertained at all.
Impulse buyers are stupid, because if someone is going to spend that much on a system or console and a sizeable chunk on the game itself, then they have no right to bitch about what they bought. The rest of the industry does have right to bitch if the offering was totally inept at what it offered, or was a total sham like F
OS or anything else Chuck Cuevas has really worked on.I have to send this Retarded Quote Of The Moment to a few developers in particular. This is classic. And indeed quite retarded by the definition of the word. That kind of mentality belongs only in context of those unable to think for themselves, and to promote that as an excuse for stupidity is perhaps the only thing to top even that.
Please explain why spending a sizeable amount of money on a piece of software (which depending on the development house, could do funky things to your system at a whole, like with Ravenloft - don't worry, that title was long before you found out about gaming other than Nintendo through that "interweb" thing), which is usually priced at $50 at release, should be made uninformed.
Really, if you assume everyone is as clueless and assuming as yourself and can go through life like that, you are a bit mistaken. Either that, or you missed the point of education.
zioburosky13
Vault Senior Citizen
TheWesDude said:
You forgot one thing:
Game Editor :long-term sales