Question about gfx cards

TheWesDude

Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
ok... im going to be upgrading my comp to 3 36 gig scsi 320 drives...

about 300-350$ each drive with raid 5 supporting scsi 320 card for about 400-450$.

going to get a 64 bit about 3.5 ghz amd cpu and like 3 gig of ram and XP 64 bit.

but its the mobo and gfx cards im not sure about. i heard that either one or both of ati and nvidia have SLI cards? whats the goods on which has the best out there now? and what about the SLI stuff?

thoughts, reccomendations? i do prefer nvidia but if ati has the best right now i could go with them even though i hate ati for the all-in-one crap cards.
 
I think the Geforce 7800 is the best card out there now - too lazy to look up any benchmarks but considering that the 6800Ultra outperforms all the ATi cards I think it's a safe bet that the 7800 is the best out there at the moment. I don't know much about SLI though so someone else will have to answer that one.

You might want to rethink using XP 64 bit if you're going to be playing games. While I'm sure they've made improvements I tried a beta about a year ago and it's 32 application support was horrible. I don't think there would be much of an improvement in game performance anyway, and XP is inconsistent enough that I imagine the 64bit version would be quite a headache when trying to get support for games that don't work right.

Edit: Here is a comparison of Ati's "Crossfire" system with two X850's vs. Nvidia's 7800 in SLI. Looks like they're pretty evenly matched, so you might as well go for whichever costs less or whatever your preferred brand is.
 
does anyone know for sure?

i could always keep running win2k on the 64 bit cpu/mobo/ram and just wait to upgrade OSes till they fix all the problems with XP 64 or their next OS.

just wanna know if its possible...
 
It is 100% possible to use "regular" Windows XP on a 64 bit proccessor, I do it and many other people do as well.
 
i mostly wanted confirmation on win2k as i dont like the idea of upgrading to XP as from what i have heard about problems with programs after SP2 it does not make me eager to upgrade.
 
Win2k I'm not sure about but I doubt it will be a problem. As Sovz said these processors are backwards compatible so you'd probably even be able to install DOS on it and have it work. Think of it this way - the 64 bit capability is there if you have an OS that utilizes it, otherwise it acts like any 32 bit processor would. The industry is in a transition period, and barely any software is made for 64, so no would be buying these processors if they weren't able to use the software they currently own on them. In a few years it will probably be a different story, but for the time being you don't really need to worry about it.
 
Good lord. Can I ask your source of income? I was ecstatic just to get my GeForce4 MX440 and 512 mg of ram... That suckers gonna scream though, good luck ever going to sleep.
 
i work at a call center... i make 10.68 hr after dec 31, untill then i make 11.68. plus performance incentives to earn up to $2 an hour over normal hourly rate.

but my mom has diabetes and has problems doing stuff so currently i stay with her but in like 5-6 months ill probably be moving out.
 
Call center. One of the Hells Dante didn't write about. It's not just upper management assigning unreasonable goals but also the politically correct bullshit you have to accept. Advise, unless you really need the money.....STAY AWAY
 
yea... looks like the best bet for the money is one of the 6800 cards not in SLI mode as the 7800s dont have the performance to justify their cost right now and the ATI cards while nice just dont do it right now.

i was looking up some CPUs and ratings and it seems like doing a 64 bit cpu is a complete waste. while the intels put out some nice numbers, their heat and power consuption is just unreal. was also looking at some of the dual-core CPUs but they are exorbantly expensive but the drivers/programs dont really take full use out of them.

so i was thinking of like an AMD 2.8 ghz 64 bit single core but that just seems slow to me with intel doing 3.5+ ghz... or is that just more of the true-performance stuff? the amd 2.8 ghz performs as good as an intel 3.6 ghz?

stop paying attention to CPUs and all of a sudden it gets horribly complicated :( that plus some of these CPUs are running like $700+ and thats just sickening especially with the SCSI costs im looking at.

thoughts? suggestions? ideas?
 
I' ll try to give you some tips.I will suppose that you want the new pc for games.Plus that i will give you the best performance/reasonable cost,not just the best and most expensive hardware available.

so i was thinking of like an AMD 2.8 ghz 64 bit single core but that just seems slow to me with intel doing 3.5+ ghz... or is that just more of the true-performance stuff? the amd 2.8 ghz performs as good as an intel 3.6 ghz?

Yes it is possible.There are MANY things that affect the performance of the cpu.It isn't only the clock frequency that matters. Assuming that you want to play games,the best choice (cost/performance) is an Athlon64 3200+ Socket 939. Pretty cheap for his performance(170-200 e),pretty cool (the cooller in the cpu box should be enough to keep the cpu temperature at low levels even if you overclock it a bit)

As for the motherboard to go with this cpu,if you can afford a bit more money the asus A8N motherboard is a gold choice.The most stable motherboard i've ever owned on a home pc.If you want a cheaper motherboard,try a Chaintek Zenith model.

yea... looks like the best bet for the money is one of the 6800 cards not in SLI mode as the 7800s dont have the performance to justify their cost right now and the ATI cards while nice just dont do it right now.

Having always the cost/performance ratio in mind,the best buy is a radeon X800XL with 16 pipelines.Models with 256 mb ram cost between 300-350 Euro.
If you want the best card in existence,7800 is the beast ( i've seen some benchmarks where 7800 hits nearly the same numbers with two 6800 ultra in SLI in games that support SLI).By the way,SLI has the drawback that requires the software(games) to be written in such way to support the SLI Function.If the game doesn't support sli,the performance you get is a little better than what you would get if you only had one card in your system.
You should stay away from 6800 ultra.Very bad temperature behavior and very power consuming.If you want to buy nvidia's cards only,pick the 6800gt instead.


On a sidenote,the 64 bit cpus from Intel are really really low in performance,power consuming and with major cooling problems.Stay away from those.
 
TheWesDude said:
so i was thinking of like an AMD 2.8 ghz 64 bit single core but that just seems slow to me with intel doing 3.5+ ghz... or is that just more of the true-performance stuff? the amd 2.8 ghz performs as good as an intel 3.6 ghz?

Just to reinforce what bloodlust said, clockspeed is really meaningless; it's just something that intel hyped for so long that it became embedded in everyone's mind that clockspeed=performance (it's usually not even reported right anyway). I'm a little too tired to go into depth as to why it is, but AMD's are as fast as Intel processors and outperform them in certain areas, such as the types of tasks that video games require of a CPU. That's why you see the "3000+", "3600+" in the AMD titles, they're trying to emphasize that it is equivalent or better than an Intel processor that runs at "3.0 Ghz" or "3.6 Ghz". Just to offer a personal example, last year I went from an Intel 1.8 Ghz setup to an AMD64 "3000+", which runs at 2.0Ghz. Going by clockspeed it seems like there should have been a tiny, barely noticable performance increase, but in actuality it was a such a boost that made me wonder how I could have put up with such a slow computer for so long.

As for which speed cpu or which brand video card to buy, my theory is this: At the higher echelon, they're all pretty much the same. The difference between a 6800gt and the comparable ATi card might look like something on paper, but in reality the difference is negligible. Whether you buy and AMD 64 "3400+" or "3600+" isn't going to impact your gaming experience in any way except your imagination. If you have the money to spend, buy the best there is. If you need to watch costs, buy the best one you can afford. Most people love to rave about how "my 9800xt kicks so much ass dude!" or "there simply is no alternative to a 6800gt", but unless they've bought each and every graphics card out there and tested them all out on the same system with the same games then they're just talking nonsense, as if there is was some magic ingredient in ATi or Nvidia cards that makes it so that even though it might look similar to the competition on paper, once you bring it home and install it becomes completely obvious that it crushes the competition and is god's personal gift to gamers. Just buy the best you can afford from whatever company you think is the best or most reliable and you'll be happy.
 
TheWesDude said:
yea... looks like the best bet for the money is one of the 6800 cards not in SLI mode as the 7800s dont have the performance to justify their cost right now and the ATI cards while nice just dont do it right now.
If you ask me, 7800GTX is extremely expensive, but worth the cost. The new ATI X1800 XT supposedly outperforms it by a nice margin, but it will also cost $550. X1800 XL may be a more reasonable choice. Crossfire and SLI are nice if you have more money than you can spend, just don't expect the performance increase to leave you flabbergasted.

i was looking up some CPUs and ratings and it seems like doing a 64 bit cpu is a complete waste. while the intels put out some nice numbers, their heat and power consuption is just unreal. was also looking at some of the dual-core CPUs but they are exorbantly expensive but the drivers/programs dont really take full use out of them.
32-bit to 64-bit is a natural transition that had to happen eventually. It will be a while, however, until immediate need occurs for 64-bit data words and logical address space greater than present 4GB, so unless you intend to rent out your computer to NSA, those magical 64 bits really aren't something to cream your pants over.

Dual-core CPUs are a nice thing if you intend to use your PC for professional applications (modelling, design, cryptography...), otherwise they are a waste of money. They are still a poor choice for gaming platforms.

so i was thinking of like an AMD 2.8 ghz 64 bit single core but that just seems slow to me with intel doing 3.5+ ghz... or is that just more of the true-performance stuff? the amd 2.8 ghz performs as good as an intel 3.6 ghz?
As others have pointed out, clock frequency is a marginal stat that means very little nowadays. Really, kids who aren't old enough to remember CPUs made before 1998 appear to have this misconception that clock frequency is the ultimate indicator of system performance. Wrong. Clock frequency is an important performance factor for computers that use a synchronous or pseudosynchronous bus (like those based on Intel x86 architecture). What if I told you that in systems based on an asynchronous bus (such as Amiga) system clock wasn't even necessary to sustain bus cycles (instead, a technique known as "handshaking" was used to coordinate different modules) and was only used for timing purposes and to support certain modules that couldn't function without a clock signal? I know it's difficult to swallow, but there *are* more important factors to CPU performance, such as average instruction length, pipeline length, cache size, branching prediction capabilities, heat dissipation etc.

Oh, yeah - AMD >> Intel in the field of CPUs for desktop systems. Buying an Intel CPU now would be a huge mistake.

stop paying attention to CPUs and all of a sudden it gets horribly complicated :( that plus some of these CPUs are running like $700+ and thats just sickening especially with the SCSI costs im looking at.
Yeah, that's another thing that puzzles me. Three 36GB SCSI hard disk drives? What, are you running a NASA server? For that kind of money you can have a RAID 5 with three SATA 300GB disks, each with 16 MB cache (a single such disk is as fast as WD Raptor, only 5-10 times more spacious). I daresay, I hope none of your acquaintances ask you for advice on what hardware to get, because you are like a human money sink.
 
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Three 36GB SCSI hard disk drives? What, are you running a NASA server?
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errr... NASA servers have terrabyte raid setups :P i would be barely breaking 100 gigs of storage...

plus for the 15.4 k rpm drives its either 36 gig or 73 gig. 36 gigs are about 320$ but the 73 gig are like 450$ each. i wanted to run raid 5.

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For that kind of money you can have a RAID 5 with three SATA 300GB disks, each with 16 MB cache (a single such disk is as fast as WD Raptor, only 5-10 times more spacious).
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and have crappy performance in comparison :) SATA compares to SCSI for blind read/writes but its nearly impossible to find a program that does those. if its not a blind read/write then SATA performs similar to SCSI 2 Wide which is 40 mb/s which is worse than my current SCSI 2 LVD which is 80 mb/s :P

i know it seems like a lot of money for using SCSI, but the performance will be amazing off it. starting up, loading programs... everything will happen extremely fast. which is my goal.

so it looks like ill just go with an AMD 64 bit cpu single core when i got the money to finally build this.
 
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