Question about the relationship between NCR/Brotherhood

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by LambentEarache, Sep 18, 2011.

  1. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    To Tag I think?

    Anyways, it is kind of silly to think the BoS would wage war with a large army, properly equipped, commanded with competent leaders. I don't care how religiously fanatic a group can be, it doesn't mean their common sense just went to shit. The BoS simply do not have the numbers to just waste on a war that frankly has an impossible goal.

    The elders clearly saw some benefit with the hedge your bets as long as the probability of loss doesn't outweigh the gains. Declaring war with NCR is totally pointless when others pointed out that one of the possible endings shows the BoS actually assisting the NCR albeit not with the 'juiciest' tech.

    As far as I remembered, the BoS didn't mind folks getting access to tech like normal guns, grenades, etc. Even vault city had laser turrets and fences and they didn't go to war on them. What they didn't want was any force to get enough high technology to become a significant competitor/ hegemon. In regards to the NCR, they already KNEW that it was getting too big for their control so they wisely 'assist' with tech they don't worry as much about while using the assistance as a path to gain a controlling stake in NCR politics.

    Best example would be an almalgamation of the r&d ending in F1 and the BoS mission in New Vegas where they try their best to limit high tech since keeping it ALL out of heathen hands is an impossibility.

    Bethesda or all those other chuckleheads needed more enemy vvariety in their 'oblivion', with guns sotry and only wisened up with new vegas when f3 was clearly pointed out as stale and un-inspiring.
  2. Languorous_Maiar

    Languorous_Maiar A Smooth-Skin

    Oct 25, 2011
    But you realize it was already in Van Buren? I mean, NCR-BOS war.

    While war with NCR is destructive for them from beginning, it's just to be or not to be...

    As for weapons, they care only about energetic weapons, that's why they want to take out Van Graffs.

    Main and the simplest argument... if they wouldn't declare the war, they would end like Followers of the Apocalypse... so dying during fighting for ideas is imho better than his, because later NCR would have bigger advantage than now.
    And how FotA ended? They were replaced, because NCR want to have complete control over everything.
  3. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    My history is a bit hazy, its been a while. Ok, then either way, not a big fan of NCR-BoS war.

    Again, there is no reason for them to to go suicidal for tech. Thats why I mentioned Vault City and the co-existance ending with NCR.

    It would be more logical if BoS, assisted NCR with non-energy weapon/logistical tech in return for strong power over NCR politics. I am a a little bit of a shadow government believer myself so why wouldn't the NCR have the same. BoS could have its aims achieved, while remaining pure by having NCR 'black ops' guys do their energy weapons raiding for them.

    And yes, they may not get ALL energy weapons from the heathens but it would be acceptable if most were taken.

    Black Isle might have wanted to go in that direction but to me its going to be a point of contention cause it just doesn't make sense. BTW, B.O.M.B. story for me was also kind of silly since the whole point of Fallout was to show the horrors of nuclear war yet along with the Fatman, BOMB, kinda says that super nuke fun time would be ok again.
  4. Languorous_Maiar

    Languorous_Maiar A Smooth-Skin

    Oct 25, 2011
    But Vault City hadn't any tech they wanted.
    In F:NV during Veronica personal quest it's explained they want only military techs, not medical.

    Also, at the time of Fallout 2 they only focused on Enclave, ignoring everything other. After Jeremy Maxson became a new high elder (and after the Enclave), who knows, maybe VC technology was one of reasons for war?

    And most important, we didn't know how everything started. Maybe in Navarro, where NCR didn't wanted to give scavenged stuff to BOS but hold it? (vertibirds, many energetic, power armors.)

    There was some point, when everything was fine... and then NCR propably took a more tech than enough.

    Imho it was like this: BoS was always above NCR, which was always submissive, giving BoS everything they wanted, however, quickly increasing in numbers and cities. At some point, they refused, wanting to be completely independent... and how war started. Why NCR would agree for some BoS influence in their government, while they can win with them?
  5. DevilTakeMe

    DevilTakeMe Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Sep 12, 2011
    The Enclave and other old American tech is precisely why the BoS went after the NCR. The NCR took down Enclave outposts and basically drove them into hiding (small groups like the Remnants are mostly all that's left), but kept the technology like the Vertibirds, energy weapons and the power armor.

    Places like the Sierra Army Depot also provided more of this technology.

    The problem here is the BoS' code and hardliners who wanted to keep to the mission of the Brotherhood: to keep dangerous technology out of the hands of wastelanders.

    The BoS doesn't really care about things like Vault City, since VC did not have any suitable military tech. If the GECK of Fallout 3 were used by VC, then I'm sure the BoS would have a big problem with Vault City. But VC had already used their GECK, so that's not at all the problem.

    The NCR did not want to give the military tech up, since they could use the technology to better keep the peace and fight off raiders, but hardliners in the BoS said no.
  6. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    Well technically Vault City did have laser turrets and fencing but yeah, not enough to warrant a war.

    I forgot that NCR ransacked Sierra and Navarro, that would defenitely be grounds for war by the hardliners.
  7. BigBoss

    BigBoss Your Local Scrub

    Dec 24, 2012
    Yeah but the Brotherhood is ridiculous. They could have cared less whether the NCR took over Enclave bases, so long as the technology went to them.

    The NCR is the first growing actual nation since the end of the modern world (as far as we know). To survive, they are going to basically need that kind of tech. Thats why they were so hard pressed to get Vault City to join in Fallout 2.

    They don't just want military tech, unlike BOS. They want whatever tech they could get their hands on.

    Yet the BOS only wants military tech. Why? So they can sit on it, and tell themselves their the biggest badasses of the wastes?

    They don't want advanced tech in other hands, and for good reason. Same reason the Chinese didn't originally want people teaching their martial arts to others that weren't Chinese. They knew if their weapon was put in the hands of others, they could use it equally effective, or possibly even better. The BOS didn't want people gaining hold of ad. technology because they knew they wouldn't best the best of the wastes anymore. They knew they wouldn't be feared anymore, and could use power armor and laser rifles to get what they want and push the people of the wastes around.

    People would eventually figure out how to use the energy weapons (and maybe armor if they found it), and what they feared was, not only would there be more people with the weapons and armor, they wanted to keep out of their hands, but at the same time, they knew they would eventually train themselves and use it just as effective as better.

    With their low numbers, and strict policies, basically

    Letting People Get Advanced Tech = No More Brotherhood of Steel

    Come on. NCR may be corrupt, but at least their original ideals are for the peoples betterment.