Real sources for the Fallout Universe

G

german_student

First time out of the vault
Hey folks,

okay, common sense is that Fallout is basically depicting a retro future from a point of view of a person living in the 50s. I got that, as it isn't actually difficult (and well written in the manual of Fallout 3).

But my question is: is it so that the presented world in Fallout would REALLY be the future people imagined in the 50s? And who is 'people'? What makes you believe or from which sources do you know that a person in the 50s would most likely have a futuristic image which would be like the Fallout Universe:

Is it
- that everybody says so (quoting from the Vault Wiki)
- common knowledge that I, as a German, do not have (considering US socio-history?)
- that you have interest in the 50s which, then most players spend additional time reading stuff about the 50si?
- a very coherent and detailed presentation of a believable 50s future presented in the Game(s), so you say "Okay, that looks believable, so the developers most likely made good research on that?

Actually one might argue that Fallout is depicting a view of a Nerd/Geek in the 50s, who consumed Sci-Fi literature (so people = 50s nerds). But that being said, does anyone know to which degree the 50s television, literature and cinema influenced the WHOLE population?

Would be awesome if you share your thoughts!
 
People are people.
It doesn't mean that everybody shared the exact same thought, but they were all influenced by the feeling of the time : cold war, science!, science fiction, politics... They all share the same paradigm (or Weltanschauung, since you'r german).
Of course the scientists and the science fiction writers are the first in line when speaking about imagining the futur, but so are the artists, the publicists, the ingeniors, the architects, the journalists, the politicians, all the intellectual elites in general. Now these people took elements, design and problematic from their own time to imagine their futur : this is this mixed design of retro and future that the developpers of Fallout choosed for the past of their setting, that's all. After that, they are free to do whatever they want, (the people from the 50's didn't imagine a Vaultek company selling places in their vault) as long as they keep this retro-futuristic feeling.

- common knowledge that I, as a German, do not have (considering US socio-history?)
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Nah, come on, haven't you watched any old movies? Not knowing about the fifties is like not knowing about indians and cowboys, or middle age...:P


Here, some example of old stuff here in this forum. You can also search for scientific magazine of the 50's.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55580
I am still waiting for the robots of the 50's and for the flying cars I was promised in the 80's... :D
 
I got the impression that the 50s theme was used to create a world that is very different from the current one, yet also very recognizable by the players. It allows people to suspend disbelief quickly and adopt/buy into the setting with less mental effort and explanation as would be required for a setting that would be totally "alien" to the average player.

WPD
 
Grayswandir said:
- common knowledge that I, as a German, do not have (considering US socio-history?)
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Nah, come on, haven't you watched any old movies? Not knowing about the fifties is like not knowing about indians and cowboys, or middle age...:P
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Hey,

thanks for the link and the good explanation. I surely DO know the 50s (german STUDENT :wink: ). That still could exclude stuff that people in the US know, which is not common to someone abroad. The same could go vice versa. You might know much about Germany in the 70s, but a German citizen might know some things in more detail or has developed another perception based on things which are not 'common' to someone from a foreign country.

Hope I can get across what I try to say here... :roll:
 
Hey sea,

good post indeed and I think you made a good point with the aspect of human behavior.

But, that was not really an answer to my question, or I do not get your point.

First, you say:
"Fallout's world isn't inspired by the actual 1950s."
and then
"Fallout is an alternate history in which the idealistic American views of the future during that time actually came to pass"

you use the phrase 'that time' in your second sentence, which I think you mean the 50s. So, if this is the case, Fallout IS inspired by the 50s. This might be the case in a strange metalevel but it's still the case.


What I am asking for is a reason why people accept, without having read any of the often mentioned sources, that Fallout depicts a postnuclear alternate future which diverged from the real 50s. It's like everyone, who is interested into the game played it and accepts a kind of canon saying "Yeah, this is what people in the 50s might have expected or feared." But WHY do players thinks so? I guess noone or the smallest minority read 'The World of Tomorrow' from August Derleth, which is often cited as a source for the future image of the 50s.
 
Hey,

thanks for the link and the good explanation. I surely DO know the 50s (german STUDENT Wink ). That still could exclude stuff that people in the US know, which is not common to someone abroad. The same could go vice versa. You might know much about Germany in the 70s, but a German citizen might know some things in more detail or has developed another perception based on things which are not 'common' to someone from a foreign country.
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Sure, I was just teasing you :wink:



you use the phrase 'that time' in your second sentence, which I think you mean the 50s. So, if this is the case, Fallout IS inspired by the 50s. This might be the case in a strange metalevel but it's still the case.
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Yeah, I agree. First because the world the people of the 50' imagined was indeed a futuristic world, but it was still the 50'. Like the future world we imagine for 2060 still is the 2000 world, even if with futurist element. The advertising for example, clearly are ad in the style of the 50', and not ad as imagined by the people of the 50' (who probably didnt bother/couldn't imagine another style, way of publicity).

So your real question is more : what makes the fallout setting fit in 50' world, right?
The music and the intro are a good beginning. Even if I didn't knew "maybe" at the time, I recognised the time it came from (with a big margin basis 30'-60' ), then the tv of the intro is really retro. Then the manual with the talk about shelter an duck and cover. The advertising play for a good part. The BIIIIG computer and the green writing.
The big corporation (vaultek, robcorp, poseidon), for me it is because of K.Dick.
After that if you think about it there aren't many more element bringing the 50' setting, at least in the 2 first fallout ( the 3rd is another matter). 2070 is long gone in the past, fallout is a postapocalyptic world before everything...
 
I always saw the Fallout universe as one of those, "Look where America could end up if we don't stop the Reds". Something that would run through the head of a stereotypical 50's dad as he's eating breakfast, reading newest stories in the newspaper about the Communists and America's latest achievements in science.

There's that firm belief in technological progress (today toasters, tomorrow robots), mixed with the slightly irrational fear of a destructive nuclear war, mixed with the naive belief that "We'll be safe in the Vaults".

It's a very beautiful mix of different aspects of 50's propaganda and harsh realities of 'the outside world'. Something Fallout 3 didn't capture as well as Fallout 1 IMO - the naivety you're bound to feel as you leave your cozy Vault only to discover that the outside world is full of punks and various other hooligans without morals or traditional values.
 
As we Germans might say: wunderbar! Great answers and I thank you girls and guys very much for answering me. That's all a part of my big final paper for the university, counterfactual history in modern computer games :) And Fallout, though not intended, seems to be a very intriguing counterfactual (alternate history) game.
 
Very very good! That is undergirdening (spelling?) my thesis which I have developed concerning counterfactual history and computer games. Good Post, Now I just have to get that into my paper :) Thank you very much
 
I'm sure that in the vast majority of cases, yes, fans take the word of the developers, although I'm sure a few do go off and do their own research on the subject to confirm those statements.
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I think you are not giving enought credit to the players, especially the fallout fanbase. If the dev had tried to sell a 60s flower power to the players, with a lsd hippie intro, and tell them it was a 50s, believe me, they would have known something was off. The players buy it because it's plausible.
We all have inconsciously integrated the cliché of our times and the times before. The silent films of the 20s, maybe some talking movies in the 30, 40's war movie/documentary, 50s film noir... If you mess with the codes of an era, people will realize it. They might not know what exactly, but they will feel something is off.


Very very good! That is undergirdening (spelling?) my thesis which I have developed concerning counterfactual history and computer games. Good Post, Now I just have to get that into my paper Smile Thank you very much
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Hey, if our forum gibbering really is of such help, don't forget to credit NMA in the sources of your thesis! :D
 
smilodom said:
Indeed like to see more of your studies of the "counterfactual history in modern computer games" :mrgreen:
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Well, I guess the thesis will never be published as I am going to use screenshots. But who knows, maybe I can convert this sometime into something which will be published.

@Grayswandir: Not only will NMA be quoted, but YOUR NAMES will be quoted. Good think noone has chosen "mutant master p*nis" or something as an user name :roll:

Generelly speaking I thing it is very interesting to see that the Fallout Community (which includes the Bethesda Gaming community, and I am not going to participate in any kind of rants here) is very much interested in investigating 'History' and learning something about 'History', as compared to other games that I use for my corpus (World in Conflict, Turning Point: Fall of Liberty, Medieval2: total War, Hearts of IronII and Making History I+II - though the latter games are unbeaten by the amount of historical investigation the community does in form of AAR).
 
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