Real Time Fallout

[Briosafreak]

We all know by now that the next Fallout game will have Turn-Based and Real-Time combat. So how will the RT combat be? Sawyer has a few comments on that:
<blockquote>The biggest stumbling block in Fallout TB -> RT is movement and AP. So far, the best movement translation seems to be this: high AP characters move faster since, for practical purposes, they do in both TB and RT. A 10 AP character will move 10 hexes in TB over one round while a 6 AP character will move 6 hexes in TB over one round. If that is converted into real-time, the 10 AP character will move 10 hexes in six seconds and the 6 AP character will move 6 hexes in six seconds. That's an analogue.

However, the general tendency in RT combat systems is that movement can't "really" cost anything. When characters move hurky-jerky around the battlefield, stopping to pause for precious APs that they immediately burn, it becomes a little... bizarre. So, what then can be the cost? The best answer I can find is: AP regeneration. A moving character never regenerates AP. He or she can run and run and run all the live-long day at whatever rate is dictated by his or her base AP, but he or she won't gain a single AP back until he or she stops (or perhaps the regeneration rate still exists, but at a pitiful fraction of its total value).

Higher AP characters would still catch up to fleeing characters in less time and either attack or easily re-accumulate APs that will eventually result in an attack into the fleeing character's back. A character who gleefully shoots a submachinegun burst and then runs for the hills will have to stop and wait for a full six seconds to get his or her AP pool back. If two characters with expended AP pools run the same distance, the higher base AP character will arrive at the location first and regenerate the equivalent AP for time saved by the time the slower character arrives.

This is not a perfect analogue, but it's really not horrible, and again, it has no effect on the TB component of the game. People playing using the RT system will find that certain scenarios play out easier, and some scenarios play out with more difficulty. Ultimately, though, it still has more fidelity to TB SPECIAL than any RT D&D game has to TB D&D. </blockquote>

But he stresses that:
<blockquote>
As previously stated by me (several times), whenever RT conflicts with TB, TB will be given priority as it is typically the combat mode choice of our more discriminating players. </blockquote>

On a side note this is what he has to say about NMA veteran Roshambo:
<blockquote>When even the angriest and most rabidly unruly Fallout fans at satellite websites produce more useful feedback than you are, something's wrong. Rosh would probably blow my foot off with C4 as soon as look at me, but even he has given me more useful feedback on the development of this project.</blockquote>

C4? Really?


Spotted on the BIS Feedback Forum.

 

[Kindo]

Well, you others probably have more insight on this subject then I have...but how did the RTB work in FoT?
What was its drawbacks?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

However, the general tendency in RT combat systems is that movement can't "really" cost anything. When characters move hurky-jerky around the battlefield, stopping to pause for precious APs that they immediately burn, it becomes a little... bizarre. So, what then can be the cost? The best answer I can find is: AP regeneration. A moving character never regenerates AP. He or she can run and run and run all the live-long day at whatever rate is dictated by his or her base AP, but he or she won't gain a single AP back until he or she stops (or perhaps the regeneration rate still exists, but at a pitiful fraction of its total value).

Actually, that sounds just like FOT.

It's rather interesting he's using the word hexes there, but also mentions you can't do herky jerky movement in real time. Then he turns around and says TB will have the priority.

If TB has the priority, then logic would say that real time will have to deal with herky jerky hex based movement. That's if he really means what he's saying.

 

[quillab]

yup, sounds exactly like RT in FOT...

Are they going to put pausing ala BG, Icewind Dale? It might be difficult to implement though.

 

[JR Jansen]

I don't really support the idea of having both RT and TB. It wasn't done well in FOT and in mostly all the games that i've played who have both styles, including Might and magic, whose system was probably the best when it came to including both, one is always more usefull as the other. If TB still gets priority then the RT aspect will be botched down. As was said by Saint, if you implement RT but TB has the priority, you are going to have to contend with herky jerky movement. I'll be very interested to see how they handle this.

 

[Chairface]

I didn't really mind FOT's combat system. The turn based option and the real-time one both had advantages. The big one being that I don't want to directly control 6 dudes in turn-based mode. Likewise there were some things you just couldn't do in turn-based that made sense IRL and worked well in real-time mode.

Biggest Pro-RTB FOT thing: Setting my men to automatically attack hostiles anytime the chance to hit is over a certain level. It was really nice being able to set guys outside the exits to a building and then send in Brian with a SAW to flush the bad guys out. Twas also great for guys in vehicles. Likewise I could put snipers in god-spots and watch as the enemy tried to advance and eliminate the troublesome snipers, only to walk into a heavy-weapons ambush.

Biggest Anti-RTB FOT thing: A LOT more emphasis was placed on knocking people down. Say I'm a deathclaw and it takes me 2 ap to jackslap you and I get 12 AP. You get 6AP and it takes you 2 just to stand back up. I can constantly knock you down and you NEVER get to hit me back. This also made rockets and grenades, and aiming at legs a bit over-powerful. A very astute and quick-fingered person would set his characters to just attack from a prone position, but oftentimes the character is dead by then. Obviously this makes Stealth a very, very important skill for an unarmed character; Many people said melee was useless in FOT, it was only useless if you weren't a freakin' ninja. Nothing sucks like a pair of deathclaws materializing out of thin air and putting a heavy weapons fire team on their backs.

 

[atoga]

Considering the ages for Civil War participants ranged from 13 to 43 years in 1860, the Home could have expected continuing admissions well into the 20th century. The Board indicated a new understanding of the population makeup when it recommended that Congress change the eligibility requirements for admission to the Home by allowing benefits to all destitute soldiers unable to earn a living, without having to trace their disabilities to their military service.[15] The Board realized that denying benefits to this large group of veterans meant their only recourse was the poor house.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Well, sounds better than I feared, I suppose. "As previously stated by me (several times), whenever RT conflicts with TB, TB will be given priority as it is typically the combat mode choice of our more discriminating players," is what pleases me most, though you never know if JE will keep his word.

At any rate, cheers Brios. B)

He can't possibly keep his word, atoga. READ THIS, since I don't feel like re-writing all that.

 

[SimpleMinded]

Alright, can someone explain to me how this works. From the way it sounds, you can run forever at a speed based upon your AP, but when you stop your AP will be drained. Thus, you have to stand and wait say 5 seconds until you have enough to attack. So if you fight with melee skills, and your opponent runs away, how are you ever able to attack him? Wouldn't you chase him, have to stop to replenish AP, and then have to chase him again because he got away?

Sorry if I have this confused, I haven't had the chance to play FOT.

 

[Chairface]

Here's how it works in FOT:

Say I've got 10 AP, I start charging you, my AP doesn't go down. When I get to you, I've still got the 10 AP. Now assume I punch you a few times, and with about 3 AP left I decide I really shouldn't have messed with you, and I cut out. I'll have 3 AP the whole time I'm running from you, because my AP don't regenerate as I run. In FOT, everyone ran the same speed (which was kinda weird) so the only change being proposed (compared to FOT) is making run speed dependent on overall AP. Leastwise that's how I figure it, and what I'd suggest.

The real trick on FOT was that since everyone ran at the same speed (though I doubt it'll matter even once speed is AP-related, since AP's are such a big deal and make Agility the most important stat for ANY kind of combat-oriented character. Agility also gives you AC and is a base stat for dozens of skills. Easily the most important stat and something that should be changed in any changes made to SPECIAL) you had to use Stealth to sneak up on your opponent, then jump out and knock him down real quick.

Yes, the focus was on the knock-down. Most melee characters would get the perks so it would cost 2 AP to attack, and have colossal enough strength to score a knock-down every time (or they were just deathclaws) and thus knocking someone down screwed them. See, it costs you 2 AP to stand back up. So every time I hit you, it costs us both 2 AP. But you get hit in the exchange too. The only way out of it was to set the character to attack from a prone position (which costs AP to "change mode" so do it early in the exchange or else), then he couldn't be knocked down because he was already laying down. I'd probably add to the AI that people should automatically go into "prone mode" if some lunatic keeps knocking them down. Or else it should be free to go into "prone mode" if some has considerately gone ahead and knocked you down into it.