Sawyer speaks out

Briosafreak

Lived Through the Heat Death
J.E. Sawyer replied to a very good question made by Mr. Teatime on the way the Lead Designer on Fallout3 sees the opinions stated on the Fallout fan sites:
<blockquote> Look, man, seriously: there are a lot of people with really useful ideas here, at NMA, and at DAC. But there are also a significant number of people that only comment on things they don't like, and to the extreeeeeeme. They will never comment on even the most beneficial changes.
See someone who will always post a complaint, but wouldn't post any sort of affirmation -- for anything, ever. Those are the people that drive me absolutely berserk. The kind of people who will remain silent if we said we were putting golden dubloons in every box -- but will complain endlessly if the fins on a car look more like early 60s than late 50s in their opinion. When a person's only function seems to be to complain, their feedback becomes kind of useless because it all seems like a vendetta.
It also becomes hard to take complaints seriously when the complaints focus on adding things for other people. I, Josh Sawyer, enjoy turn based combat. I have enjoyed turn based combat for a long time. I played all of the Gold Box games. I enjoyed it in Fallout. However, I also like some real-time RPGs like Darklands. They are different systems, each with benefits and drawbacks. Neither is inherently better than the other.
</blockquote>
He then states how he sees Turn-Based and Real Time combat on Fallout games in the past and in the future, and how he feels both systems in the game is just another option given to the player:
<blockquote> Turn based combat is a fundamental aspect of Fallout, and it should remain the focus in future games. However, I do think it's important to add a real-time component for the large number of RPG fans who do like RT combat. And all the insults and sneering from TB fans is just ridiculous. Why should anyone care about how someone else plays their game as long as your game is high quality? Did you enjoy TB combat in Fallout and Fallout 2? I/we have no intention of removing anything from the TB combat component. I know that you have concerns about what could be added to TB combat, and that's certainly fair. But, if you don't like RT combat, its relative quality or suxitude shouldn't really matter, should it? Yes, I understand the argument that by working on two instead of one, we sacrifice the overall quality of both. That's true, but what is frustrating is that people refuse to accept the fact that what is true for that option is true for ALL options. It is true for evil and stupid dialogue paths. It's true for non-linear gameplay. We make that effort and that sacrifice because it gives a player more meaningful options.</blockquote>
Pretty hot stuff, that deserves some debate IMHO .
What do you guys and girls think on the issues raised here?
 
well he claims that the TB system in Van buren will not have effect on RT and vice versa, BUT i do think 1 part is true, if u focus on 2, both will not be so perfect.
 
I think I'm going to register on the NMA forums and give JE some good positive feedback, and some nice criticism :D
 
Whee

Look at me, I made the headlines again! Wooooo! Yeah! :)

Hearing that TB will be at least as good as FO1 and 2 is good. My next question is, will the game itself be built up to make TB difficult - since they have RT, will they throw more enemies at the player at any one time, hence making playing TB frustrating (because it's slow)? Will they try and solve this issue by improving TB, or assuming players will switch to RT to get past these encounters?
 
About DAC and NMA.
I can understand him saying that sometimes it seems everyone just respond in negative tones to all of his ideas, but it isn't true. some of his ideas are supported by people, and some are not. But saying that most of us are against him, and not reading the sites because of that is wrong, as there is a lot of constructive feedback over here.

About the TB/RT combat.
Well, generally, you can't make both without harming them. If he makes it perfect for TB, then I don't mind the RT. The thing is, if he makes RT, he will make some changes to make it more balanced too. If RT combat is in the game, then it will be worked on, harming the TB.
 
JE Sawyer said:
Look, man, seriously: there are a lot of people with really useful ideas here, at NMA, and at DAC. But there are also a significant number of people that only comment on things they don't like, and to the extreeeeeeme. They will never comment on even the most beneficial changes.
See someone who will always post a complaint, but wouldn't post any sort of affirmation -- for anything, ever. Those are the people that drive me absolutely berserk.
What we have here is a communication break-down. I've never once posted "that's good" to anything, anywhere, ever except for the Fan Made Fallout project where I make specific effort as the Project Leader. If JE needs some of us over there to tell us whether an idea is good or not, he can PM us and ask us. "Hey, do you think this idea is good yes/no?". I'm sure we'll all happily give him a "yes/no" in response.

Most of the time, I don't want to waste time saying "this idea is good because it rah rah rah how good it is explained, it also allows us to rah rah etc..." because I'm too busy/pissed/annoyed at some completely stupid thing someone's done.

JE Sawyer said:
When a person's only function seems to be to complain, their feedback becomes kind of useless because it all seems like a vendetta.
So he wants threads filled with 5 pages of 50 people saying "That's a good idea" does he?

JE Sawyer said:
It also becomes hard to take complaints seriously when the complaints focus on adding things for other people.
Adding things for other people when those things fuck up the things -I- want and will enjoy IS something to complain about.

JE Sawyer said:
I, Josh Sawyer, enjoy turn based combat. I have enjoyed turn based combat for a long time. I played all of the Gold Box games. I enjoyed it in Fallout. However, I also like some real-time RPGs like Darklands. They are different systems, each with benefits and drawbacks. Neither is inherently better than the other.
I, DarkUnderlord, enjoy:

The Sims
Escape Velocity Nova
Quake
Grand Theft Auto (original version + GTA3)
Railroad Tycoon II
Fallout
X-Com
Advanced Tactical Fighters
Descent: Freespace
Civilization

... and a whole plethora of other games. It does't mean I want all the things I enjoy in Quake to suddenly be implemented in Fallout. Just because I like Railroad Tycoon II doesn't mean I want to be a caravan Tycoon in Fallout. After all, that's what I play Railroad Tycoon for.

JE Sawyer said:
Turn based combat is a fundamental aspect of Fallout, and it should remain the focus in future games. However, I do think it's important to add a real-time component for the large number of RPG fans who do like RT combat.

... what about the huge number of RPG fans that like Multiplayer games? OH NOEZ UR IGNORING SOMEWUNS WAHT A PITY!!1!

JE Sawyer said:
And all the insults and sneering from TB fans is just ridiculous. Why should anyone care about how someone else plays their game as long as your game is high quality?
Fallout 4: Well, more fans enjoyed the real-time aspect in FO3 than turn-based, so for FO4, we'll ignore turn-based altogether. Always think one step ahead. Why does that concern me? I enjoy turn-based games every now and then. Fallout and X-Com are my two favourite turn-based games. The new X-Com doesn't have turn-based, the new Fallout is starting to head that way.

My list of different games I enjoy suddenly loses two titles.

JE Sawyer said:
Did you enjoy TB combat in Fallout and Fallout 2?
Yes, immensely.

JE Sawyer said:
I/we have no intention of removing anything from the TB combat component. I know that you have concerns about what could be added to TB combat, and that's certainly fair. But, if you don't like RT combat, its relative quality or suxitude shouldn't really matter, should it?
I'm still in the crowd where I don't believe you can create two completely independent combat systems and pull it off effectively. I haven't found a game that did it once. If BiS do manage to do it, they'll be achieving something quite remarkable. My belief of BiS achieveing something remarkable is somewhat low.

JE Sawyer said:
Yes, I understand the argument that by working on two instead of one, we sacrifice the overall quality of both. That's true, but what is frustrating is that people refuse to accept the fact that what is true for that option is true for ALL options. It is true for evil and stupid dialogue paths. It's true for non-linear gameplay. We make that effort and that sacrifice because it gives a player more meaningful options.
Stupid dialogue doesn't affect my smart character. I want stupid dialogue, I replay as a stupid character. However, a hoarde of ants that I find late in the game that are designed for real-time, DOES affect my smart character ADVERSELY when I'm playing turn-based.
 
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