Self imposed limitations - how viable an option is this?

SilentRiC

First time out of the vault
It's no secret that the 'Gamebryo' engine that the modern Fallouts run on come with a few issues that soften the challenge and gameplay in general. Some, not all, of these can be remedied via mods but not all of us have this option due to playing the games on consoles (I'm currently limited to a laptop) and even so, this still falls into the category of self imposed limitations.

Of the top of my head, some of these gameplay softening issues are:

-Fast Travel
-Enemy Radar Blips
-Quest Markers

In Skyrim, another major example was the location markers on the radar that highlighted nearby new locations before you'd actually discovered them. Fallout doesn't have this but we still have the 'New Location Discovered' messages that occasionally pop up before you've actually spotted the easily missed door in the side of a mountain; it's rare though.

So a commonly proposed solution is "If you don't like them, just don't use them!" but I personally don't think this cuts it. I recall reading somebody's account of them trudging through dangerous territory en route to their destination (it was in Farcry 3 but it's the same situation) and the thrill this provided. They went on to recount how the thrill was diminished significantly when they remembered the fact that they could just click on 'Fast Travel' any time they liked.

In theory all we need is a little will power and we can tailor the game to our preferences but in practice I find that I'm constantly aware that my struggle is entirely optional. The same goes for quest markers - I tend to view an objective's location on the map first and then switch to a different active quest so that I can navigate without knowledge of its precise location. The game isn't designed with this in mind though and so I often find myself toggling between marker and no marker so that I can get a better idea of where to look. This definitely impedes exploration and I find that if I can muster the patience, my experience benefits greatly from the more organic approach.

Enemy radar blips can't be avoided if mods are not an option and I wish this weren't the case. The few times that enemies have genuinely surprised me have been a real thrill and something of value is lost when you don't have to fear what's around the corner because your compass tells you the coast is clear. Some may say "Just don't look" but I find that physically impossible, peripheral vision being what it is.

So there's my question - is self limiting really an option and does it cut it as a solution? I think it's a poor solution at best because, not so much because I shouldn't have to "gimp myself" but because I'll always know that I have the safety net of just using the standard features. This isn't even limited to modern games - I found that Fallout 1 made it far too easy to become rich and powerful and that I had to stunt my barter skill to compensate. The greatest example, though, is the auto save feature that has been a standard fixture of games for decades now. Having to retread old ground because you ran out of HP/lives at the last stretch is never enjoyable but knowing that this was what you'd be stuck with if you died added a hell of a lot of pressure that was ultimately rewarding when overcome. Again, some might say "just don't save often" but when you don't use it and die, you feel like your screw up was not saving more frequently rather than dying - that's my experience anyway.

Thoughts?
 
I think its an unfortunate necessity due to bugs, but with a skyrim like save system things like fast travel should be removed from games. Maybe leave them into a mode for those people that dont have much time to play or just care about the story and not the challenge, but dont let people turn them off and on in the middle of the game.

Its fun to succeed at a challenging goal, but when its as simple as pressing the pause button and clicking past every bad guy or lowering the difficulty slider its no longer fun. Thats like saying they should give everyone in new vegas every weapon in the game right off the bat and tell them to "just use self control".
 
Are you telling me to trudge through the wilderness and lot of mob trash to get my loot inventory back to base? fast travel is the answer since my morrowind days.

Enemy Radar Blips and Quest Marker? So you want the big clunky thing you carry on your hand doesnt even do some of the things it design for, the which radar is one? I dont even have the ability to note down in-game data I need and I will have to trudge to miles and miles of bloody nothing to find the quest target?

IF you want a challenge, start a new game. Get the mod Slower Leveling, Triple requirement for level up. Then use the console to addlevel to level 29. Let's see how you like starting the game with most of enemies at high level while yourself carry trash. Oh, and get VERY HARD and HARD CORE, of course. you will stay at current level for quite a while, as addlevel only add level, not xp.
 
You're right that no fast travel at all wouldn't work well with the current Fallout games. Most games with similar engines have vehicles or animal mounts for transport so without something like that to speed up travelling, yeah fast travel for moments like that makes sense. I actually have a separate idea for how fast travel should be hadled and that's to simply use a system similar if not identical to the original Fallouts - the diceroll (modified by Survival skill) determines if you'll have an encounter and what type, you could then be transported to the region you reached and the game would carry on as though you fast travelled to that location.

Fallout 3 had a perfect opportunity to use the subway stations as fast travel points; this is how Morrowind was, you were able to jump from set location to set location, not jump from anywhere outdoors to set location. This would be second best, if the classic fast travel system with random encounters wasn't used. This way you still need to reach locations to fast travel, being able to do it from anywhere is something that lessens the importance of space, in my experience.

Enemy blips are fair game for Fallout with its Pipboys yes, I'd like to be able to switch them off though. I think it would work perfectly if they were a lvl 1 perk (motion sensor perk?) because they really do take a chunk of the mystery away, make them optional.

Quest markers, again just let me turn them off. Ideally I'd like to follow directions would be stored for reference but at least make them optional if they're included. Obviously this is more challenging for the designers but it's worked in other games.

I actually don't want a tougher fight, I'm fine with that element. I also don't have the option of modding, as I'm not able to play New Vegas on PC.
 
Anyway, remove enemies' blip is a bad idea because it's an integral part of game's story and questline. Starting the Honest Heart's main quest lead to a part where the caravan hire a good-for-nothing just because he has a pipboy that can detect enemies.

Quest markers people complained a lot. i dont see the fuss, but I understand your opinion on it.
 
Part of the problem with quest marker is they're just plain lazy. It means that you don't have to write any clues or dialogue for npcs to direct you to the location. So if you turn them off (I turned off the UI entirely in skyrim to just try to make it more tolerable), its damn hard to find anything because there's no clues for any of this shit.

Though, waypoints on a map aren't the worst, that's how I'd get around in skyrim, I'd just figure out my location and follow the geography to where the waypoint was on the map (boyscout mode). But god its annoying when quest markers lead you to random npcs in the middle of nowhere when there's no reason you should know they exist or are located.
 
Until you can manage a system of auto-note details like Fallout 2 or Torment Planescape, quest markers is a workable compromise.

Correct me if I am wrong but we are able to note down stuffs in Morrowind, right?
 
I played once on FO3 (didn't try NV) without using fast travel, and personally found it enjoyable. It forced me to plan my trips ahead to minimize time spent trudging the wastelands - and overall, made the whole world feel 'bigger'.

Mind you, this was on a third playthrough, so planning trips was easier. Doing it on the first time, might have been rough.
 
Interestingly enough during the rather short period I played Fallout 3 I never used fast travel just because - I was mostly exploring and declined most fetch quests so I could go at my own pace. That was quite enjoyable.

But in NV, where I was purposefully doing quests that I'd started - fast travel was the only way to stay sane. Same reason why I couldn't play hard-core with the sleep and food/water limitations. Such survival simming and stimpak/f.aid kit counting wasn't fun any more, especially as I don't have that much time to play games nowadays it instead became frustrating very fast.
 
In the original Morrowind release the journal noted down all, uh, notable interactions but they were compiled in chronological order and only able to be viewed in the same way; naturally this became ridiculous as soon as you'd amassed many pages of entries. An update, which many console players missed out on due to the lack of internet service on the original X-Box, allowed us to search by alphabetical keywords, which was fantastic. It's worth stating, though, that some of the directions were insufficient - it wasn't a perfectly implemented system.

I'm surprised to hear that about hardcore mode because I'm playing it on my second play through and it's really been a case of 'pack a load of water and some food - consume every half hour (real time) or so'. The only game changer has been stimpaks but I've yet to die because of their gradualised effect. I could suggest more than a few changes to toughen up the hardcore mode but that would warrant a new thread.

I think the best compromise (and there's no point in being unrealistic and expecting the developers to alienate a huge market) is to include a casual mode, a normal mode, and a hardcore mode. Outside of casual mode, fast travel could be limited to set locations e.g. town to town (not just to named locations and not from anywhere outdoors) if they didn't implement classic style hazardous map screen travelling which I thought was perfect.

I don't want the game to be gruelling, I'm really not that kind of gamer, I'd just like the edge restored - though in some cases it was never there to begin with, the necessity of frequent state saving being a prime example.
 
Mmmm. If Quick Travel is in a all-or-nothing mode like that i foresee mods that allow quick travel in hardest mode. Because it's bloody convenient, that's why. I really dont want to travel through miles and miles of bloody Mojave to get to my base and/or merchants. As it is, in this game engine, it's not necessary because a console command coc can serve that purpose.

I really dont like hiking simulator. no matter how purty the sceneries are.
 
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