Shoot to Kill

welsh

welsh

Junkmaster
Crime in South Africa is notoriously high.

A government administered recently said-

SA police 'should shoot to kill'

A government minister in South Africa has told police they should kill criminals if they threaten police or the community, reports say.

Deputy security minister Susan Shabangu said police "must kill the bastards [criminals] if they threaten you", the Star newspaper reported.

"I want no warning shots, you have one shot and it must be a kill shot," she told an anti-crime meeting in Pretoria.

"You have been given guns, now use them," she added.

"The constitution says criminals must be kept safe, but I say no," she added.

The minister was responding to questions from residents on what the police and government were doing to curb crime.

South Africa suffers some of the highest levels of violent crime in the world, with police figures showing an estimated 20,000 murders committed every year.
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Given that these crime rates are do, in part, to continued poverty and the failure of the state to improve living conditions- doesn't this remark suggest a form of civil war?

Doesn't this basically mean that one of the obligations of a state, to sustain law and order and thus a peaceful society, has failed for South Africa?

More on Crime-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa
 
They should do the same here in Brazil. No more pussy weakling criminal protecting. You bastards steal our stuff and make us use money to put you in fucking prisons. No way - SHOOT TO KILL!!

And aim for groins and eyes!
 
Majority of my 'foreigner' (as in not Taiwanese) friends here are either from SA or Canada.

Those from SA generally say they love SA, beautiful place and a lot of amazing things, but that the crime is too damn high.
 
Rape capital of the world! Tell me they don't have that on their travel guides.
 
If I was in south afrika I would be more worried about the energy crisis than the crime rate.
 
SA is the country where rich people can have FUCKING FLAMETHROWERS mounted on their ARMORED cars to fend off potential carjackers...
 
welsh said:
Doesn't this basically mean that one of the obligations of a state, to sustain law and order and thus a peaceful society, has failed for South Africa?
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In the same way, someone could draw the same conclusions looking at NY in the 80's.
 
Ah, shit, I understand you can shoot a guy that is *aiming a gun* at a policeman or civilian with intent to kill or is trying to take someone's life some other way, but to kill every single criminal without giving them a chance to surrender? Thank God I live in central Europe.

Besides, "threating the police or community" is a broad criterium and it can apply both to a man with a pistol trying to kill someone as well as to a thief stealing food. Do both deserve to die for the sake of upholding the law?

This is getting primal, I'm affraid.
 
Corrupt politics wield a corrupt populous, and violence will only beget violence, as things escalate in Africa against perpetrators, the perpetrators will escalate against the state.

They're two steps from martial law, and they're already putting the next foot forward...
 
I was born around Cape Town in SA, and let me tell you, the wide spread nature of crime in the Republic is absolutely ridiculous, even fringe farms aren't safe. In fact, farmers, or boers as they're called over there are some of the most commonly victimized groups.

It's quite frankly killing the agricultural market of South Africa, destroying the economy even further, creating more poverty, more violence and more prejudice as a direct result from the fingers being pointed.

Add in the disturbing fact that the ANC is completely corrupt and post-apartheid is in one of the worst post-reform conflicts since the Protestant reformation (okay, I'm exaggerating) and you've got a country that won't be safe until a couple of decades, if at all ever.
The topic of civil rights is once again the prime issue in South Africa. The deconstruction of apartheid SA was done in an absolutely horrible fashion, black South Africans were essentially "equaled out" in the respect of rights (although certainly not entirely, as in post-slavery and mid 1900s America) in a matter of months, and it was just done far too quickly.

And then you have the police being encouraged to behave like the British did in the late 1800s while occupying South Africa, and you have an entirely hypocritical and recessive ball that just doesn't make any sense.

A beautiful country, but sadly it's in a devastatingly poor state.
 
I think a primary ingredient for any stability at all is law and order. In a country full of chaos, law and order must be regained at any cost.

Only after order is restored can things move on.

I think the big problem with Africa is because of foreign imperialism/interference. If the african people could unite under a common banner (being black for example instead of bickering over tribal differences), they would be able to do much more.
 
DarkCorp said:
I think a primary ingredient for any stability at all is law and order. In a country full of chaos, law and order must be regained at any cost.

Only after order is restored can things move on.

I think the big problem with Africa is because of foreign imperialism/interference. If the african people could unite under a common banner (being black for example instead of bickering over tribal differences), they would be able to do much more.
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Certainly, it was only in 1879 that the Zulus began their war against the British imperialists, that's definitely not very long ago.
And it was only 1910 when independence from the British was won, and then only in 1961 when it was declared the Republic.
The country is still in its infancy and I think for the most part things moved far too quickly.
In a very short amount of time the nation progressed from a wild savanna with only the Zulus and a few other tribes occupying the area, to an industrial nation with some of the most prominent cities in the world.
 
Loxley said:
If I was in south afrika I would be more worried about the energy crisis than the crime rate.
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Is there any end in sight for the energy problem, didn't they have to shut down one of their main nuclear reactors?
 
Mord_Sith said:
Corrupt politics wield a corrupt populous, and violence will only beget violence, as things escalate in Africa against perpetrators, the perpetrators will escalate against the state.

They're two steps from martial law, and they're already putting the next foot forward...
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Agreed whole heartedly. Shoot first ask questions later is the surest way toward ether anarchy or tyranny. (sorry for stating the obvious but I just had to)

DarkCorp said:
I think a primary ingredient for any stability at all is law and order. In a country full of chaos, law and order must be regained at any cost.

Only after order is restored can things move on.

I think the big problem with Africa is because of foreign imperialism/interference. If the african people could unite under a common banner (being black for example instead of bickering over tribal differences), they would be able to do much more.
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First off. Not everyone there is black. Second. Not every country in Africa is loaded with assholes and warlords.

Joining under one banner and giving up their tribe is THE same as giving up their county for a greater union. How many of you would like to see your nation's sovereignty removed and put under the law of the EU.

Hate and corruption will not allow the tribes to put their differences aside and end warlord rule.

When people talk about Africa's problems they instantly go to the easy answer. Imperialism did it and if it weren't for imperialism everything would be hunky dory. Truth is they were killing each other for centuries before westerners got there. We just gave them better tools to do it with and arbitrary borders to fight over.

They have the will to fight. And so they will.
 
Wooz said:
welsh said:
Doesn't this basically mean that one of the obligations of a state, to sustain law and order and thus a peaceful society, has failed for South Africa?
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In the same way, someone could draw the same conclusions looking at NY in the 80's.
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I agree. Actually you can say this was true in New York up until the 1990s. The days when Crack was king and the murder rate topped 1000 per year.

Which is why Gullianni was so popular- he pushed hard on law and order and the crime rate fell dramatically in a decade, turning NY into one of the safest cities in the US.
 
Wooz said:
some of the most prominent cities in the world
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guffaw.
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Believe it or not Cape Town is one of the biggest tourist traps around. A massive part of South Africa's economy comes from the tourism alone. It's not inaccurate to say that it's one of the most visited cities in the world.
 
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