Some ideas for FO3

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1: Remove the current damage system and replace it with a more realistic one, like the one the Swedish game company NeoGames use
2: Remove the level system and make skills increase by using them

3: Add more skills, like climbing, and split up the small guns skill into categories like pistol, rifles, SMGs etc.

4: Add more advanced non-energy weapons. Since the war takes place in 2077, and the energy weapons are new, a lot of bullet weapons will have been developed in 77 years.

5: Add weapons like bow and arrow.

6: Make players be able to place a number of skill points in the beginning so you can choose to be a jack of all trades master of none, or really specialise in a few.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Dec-07-00 AT 02:10PM (GMT)[p]>1: Remove the current damage system
>and replace it with a
>more realistic one, like the
>one the Swedish game company
>NeoGames use

Um, I'm sorry but actually I've never heard of NeoGames or their damage system, maybe if you'd explain a bit?

>2: Remove the level system and
>make skills increase by using
>them

Skill increase through points IS the whole point of the system, you know. That's what they designed it to be.

>3: Add more skills, like climbing,
>and split up the small
>guns skill into categories like
>pistol, rifles, SMGs etc.

Interesting, but I don't really think the game itself would be large enough to make good use of all those features. What would you use climbing for? How fast you get up stairs?

>4: Add more advanced non-energy weapons.
>Since the war takes place
>in 2077, and the energy
>weapons are new, a lot
>of bullet weapons will have
>been developed in 77 years.

Yup. More weapons.

>5: Add weapons like bow and
>arrow.

Okay, maybe for tribals.

>6: Make players be able to
>place a number of skill
>points in the beginning so
>you can choose to be
>a jack of all trades
>master of none, or really
>specialise in a few.

We already have that. It's called tag. It's pretty broad, but making it more advanceed would make it lose that simple feel.
 
>1: Remove the current damage system
>and replace it with a
>more realistic one, like the
>one the Swedish game company
>NeoGames use

That's a very good idea, indeed!

>2: Remove the level system and
>make skills increase by using
>them

A la Wasteland/Daggerfall. I would like to see a return to that. Wasteland gave exp for skill usage, Daggerfall increased the skill. I have and always will be a supporter of 'the more you use it, the more it grows'.

>3: Add more skills, like climbing,
>and split up the small
>guns skill into categories like
>pistol, rifles, SMGs etc.

Agreed on climbing, but with the small weapon specialization...dunno... I think small arms might cover it all. I speak from personal experience, of course.

>4: Add more advanced non-energy weapons.
>Since the war takes place
>in 2077, and the energy
>weapons are new, a lot
>of bullet weapons will have
>been developed in 77 years.

Gauss, plasma, laser...

About what you see is what is found after a war in the domestic part. Remember, the previous Fallout games haven't been on the 'front', but more along the more 'domesticated' areas.

>5: Add weapons like bow and
>arrow.

For beginning, or somewhere around...might be good. However, for animations, etc... We'll see. This has been a popular request....

But speaking as an experienced fletcher, California doesn't have the right trees...

>6: Make players be able to
>place a number of skill
>points in the beginning so
>you can choose to be
>a jack of all trades
>master of none, or really
>specialise in a few.

Another very good point. I play special or JOAT characters quite often.


This redefines sucking ass...​
 
>>1: Remove the current damage system
>>and replace it with a
>>more realistic one, like the
>>one the Swedish game company
>>NeoGames use
>
>Um, I'm sorry but actually I've
>never heard of NeoGames or
>their damage system, maybe if
>you'd explain a bit?

I'll let him do that.

It's a really advanced and realistic manner. However...it's not quite 'old school P&P', but it might fit in.


>>2: Remove the level system and
>>make skills increase by using
>>them
>
>Skill increase through points IS the
>whole point of the system,
>you know. That's what they
>designed it to be.

No. What he's talking about is 'the more you use it, the more it grows' systems like Daggerfall.

>>3: Add more skills, like climbing,
>>and split up the small
>>guns skill into categories like
>>pistol, rifles, SMGs etc.
>
>Interesting, but I don't really think
>the game itself would be
>large enough to make good
>use of all those features.
>What would you use climbing
>for? How fast you get
>up stairs?

Look at Wasteland for a good example. I REALLY suggest anyone who wants to suggest ideas for Fallout play that game...

>>4: Add more advanced non-energy weapons.
>>Since the war takes place
>>in 2077, and the energy
>>weapons are new, a lot
>>of bullet weapons will have
>>been developed in 77 years.
>
>Yup. More weapons.

Possibly, though I really do like the post-apocalyptic setting more than anything about the game. Perhaps a bit more primitive weapons, then progressed like normal.

>>5: Add weapons like bow and
>>arrow.
>
>Okay, maybe for tribals.
>
>>6: Make players be able to
>>place a number of skill
>>points in the beginning so
>>you can choose to be
>>a jack of all trades
>>master of none, or really
>>specialise in a few.
>
>We already have that. It's called
>tag. It's pretty broad, but
>making it more advanceed would
>make it lose that simple
>feel.

Well, including tag skills, but adding a few points around to give a 'cursory' learned skill. Like a dabbling in small arms or bartering, but not a specialization. Or enough points to spread around.


This redefines sucking ass...​
 
Explaining damage system

Okay, since you asked me to explain the damage system NeoGames use i will try. The main principle in the damage system is that for every damage a person is dealt, he/she gets a number of crosses in the trauma, pain and amount of bleeding sections. These sections are split into 10 rows with 10 places for marking crosses in each row, although a human with a normal body only uses six of the places to mark crosses(from now on reffered to as rutor)in each row. For each started row after the first in pain, it is easier to faint and harder to use skills. For each started row after the first in trauma, it is easier to faint and to die. For each started row after the first in bleeding you get more crosses in bloodloss. For each started row after the first in bloodloss it is easier to faint and to die. Also , in this system almost all rolls in the game ar Obt6=unlimited die 6. This means that every time you roll a 6 on a d6, you reroll but with two dice instead. For example you roll a 6, reroll gives 4 and 6, reroll again gives 2 and 3, thats 9. Also, all damage(the amount of dice you roll) is dependant on the ammunition. After you have rolled you determine randomly where you hit(unless you aimed)and then check a table. If the damage rolled on the dice is 1-9 it is a minor wound and only delivers a small amount of damage, 10-19 you get the same amount of damage as for 1-9 + one extra wound(these are like hit bones, heart, punctured lung etc etc) 20-29 2 extra damages.

Example: Jack shoots at Joey with his Desert Eagle and hits, he is using hollow point bullet in 357Magnum caliber. He hits Joey in the chest, rolls ob5d6+1 and gets 19, he then checks what damage he has done. He hits an artery and Joey now has 11 crosses trauma, 3 crosses pain and bleeding 43. This is a pretty nasty damage, and Joey is lucky if he survives.
 
>
>>2: Remove the level system and
>>make skills increase by using
>>them
>
>Skill increase through points IS the
>whole point of the system,
>you know. That's what they
>designed it to be.
>
And i dont like it since its unrealistic and this is a computer game, where simplicity is not as good as in a real pen and paper RPG.
>>3: Add more skills, like climbing,
>>and split up the small
>>guns skill into categories like
>>pistol, rifles, SMGs etc.
>
>Interesting, but I don't really think
>the game itself would be
>large enough to make good
>use of all those features.
>What would you use climbing
>for? How fast you get
>up stairs?
>
Did you ever want to climb any of the casinos in New Reno go in through a window, take everything and leave unnoticed? i know i did. Or did you want to climb the walls surrounding Adytum, Vault city Shady Sands/NCR or anyplace with a wall?

>>4: Add more advanced non-energy weapons.
>>Since the war takes place
>>in 2077, and the energy
>>weapons are new, a lot
>>of bullet weapons will have
>>been developed in 77 years.
>
>Yup. More weapons.
>
>>5: Add weapons like bow and
>>arrow.
>
>Okay, maybe for tribals.

What about the guys who dont want to waste bullets hunting animals, so they make bows instead. More types of 21st century weapons, but fewer guns on the whole.
>
>>6: Make players be able to
>>place a number of skill
>>points in the beginning so
>>you can choose to be
>>a jack of all trades
>>master of none, or really
>>specialise in a few.
>
>We already have that. It's called
>tag. It's pretty broad, but
>making it more advanceed would
>make it lose that simple
>feel.

Tag is not broad! It allows for three skills to be moderately good in the beggining. I say a points system where you choose for yourself to either put many points on a few skills in the beggining or a few points on many skills.
 
>>1: Remove the current damage system
>>and replace it with a
>>more realistic one, like the
>>one the Swedish game company
>>NeoGames use
>
>That's a very good idea, indeed!
>
>
>>2: Remove the level system and
>>make skills increase by using
>>them
>
>A la Wasteland/Daggerfall. I would
>like to see a return
>to that. Wasteland gave
>exp for skill usage, Daggerfall
>increased the skill. I
>have and always will be
>a supporter of 'the more
>you use it, the more
>it grows'.
>
Also, the better you are, the less you learn.

>>3: Add more skills, like climbing,
>>and split up the small
>>guns skill into categories like
>>pistol, rifles, SMGs etc.
>
>Agreed on climbing, but with the
>small weapon specialization...dunno...
>I think small arms might
>cover it all. I
>speak from personal experience, of
>course.
>
So its the same thing to fire a rifle and a pistol?

>>4: Add more advanced non-energy weapons.
>>Since the war takes place
>>in 2077, and the energy
>>weapons are new, a lot
>>of bullet weapons will have
>>been developed in 77 years.
>
>Gauss, plasma, laser...
>
>About what you see is what
>is found after a war
>in the domestic part.
>Remember, the previous Fallout games
>haven't been on the 'front',
>but more along the more
>'domesticated' areas.
>
So in domesticated areas, what we use for weaponry is either brand new or made 1933 or earlier? What i mean is that a lot of people complain about "not real guns" but its 77 years in the future when mass production of guns end.

>>5: Add weapons like bow and
>>arrow.
>
>For beginning, or somewhere around...might be
>good. However, for animations,
>etc... We'll see.
>This has been a popular
>request....
>
>But speaking as an experienced fletcher,
>California doesn't have the right
>trees...
>
Another reason to move FO3 from the California setting

>>6: Make players be able to
>>place a number of skill
>>points in the beginning so
>>you can choose to be
>>a jack of all trades
>>master of none, or really
>>specialise in a few.
>
>Another very good point. I
>play special or JOAT characters
>quite often.
>
 
>>>2: Remove the level system and
>>>make skills increase by using
>>>them
>>
>>A la Wasteland/Daggerfall. I would
>>like to see a return
>>to that. Wasteland gave
>>exp for skill usage, Daggerfall
>>increased the skill. I
>>have and always will be
>>a supporter of 'the more
>>you use it, the more
>>it grows'.
>>
>Also, the better you are, the
>less you learn.

I don't know if this will work. At least they'd have to put in some severe hindering systems at higher levels, so it won't be like Ultima 8 and many other games with this system: Punch madly in thin air for two hours until your combat skill is at top. Or climb up and down the same tree five hundred times until your climbing skill is at top.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-00 AT 06:44AM (GMT)[p]Can you punch madly in the air in Fallout?? I didn't think so.
And the better you get at a skill the less chance that you will learn something new. And if you climb in atree you might fall and hurt yourself. And if the tree is so easy to climb you can only fail if you have really bad luck, you wont get any experience from climbing it.
 
RE: Explaining damage system

[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-00 AT 10:04PM (GMT)[p]sorry about that.
 
RE: Explaining damage system

Give me an example of a game that uses this system. It sounds pretty interesting.
 
Okay

NeoTech 2 and Eon, both made by the Swedish game company NeoGames. They are making more games, including a computer version of Eon, and they will probably utilize this system or a more advanced form of it.
 
Here are some of my ideas (sorry if they've been posted before, and sorry if you don't agree)

The idea about the more you use skills, the more they grow...it might be a great idea, if done right. In Daggerfall you could just run around all day or fire cheap spells into thin air and your skills would shoot up. The exact same idea shouldn't be implemented in Fallout. But I dont mean to say its a bad idea --I agree the skill point system needs to be changed. Its not fair that you can go around and get experience to gain levels, then pump all your skill points into say science when you've never even used that skill!

About breaking up "small guns"....I don't think it'd be a good idea. Then you'd have to break up energy weapons into "energy pistols" and "energy rifles" and so on, and I just don't see it working. BUT an alternative may be is that you could specialize in a special set of weapons, an example being you tag "small guns" but your specialty is rifles. Like the 'one hander' trait gives you a bonus to all one handed weapons, specializing in a set of weapons could give you a bonus when using all weapons that fall under that catagory. I dunno if it'd work though.

Something I think that needs to be included in F3 is being able to secretly kill someone without anyone knowing. I haven't played F2 a whole lot, but I could never secretly kill someone without using the "super stimpaks of death" (giving someone enough super stimpaks, and waiting for the side effect of the super stims to lower their hp's till they die). I'd think if you're good enough at sneaking you could murder someone with a quick blow to the head without making a sound. Maybe have some special weapons, like a WORKING shiv.

Now I'm gonna TRY to explain how I feel about some skills.... I think some were kinda worthless! As I stated above, I'm no Fallout master, but I felt that some skills like "repair" weren't as important as others. I barely used repair at all. Thats why I think some skills should have new functions in F3. Possibly you could upgrade your weapons yourself for free if you are a good repairman. I just think that some skills were a little unbalanced. Did anyone else think this?

Climbing...that would probably be a good skill that could be added. It'd be great tag skill for a burglar.

Traps... man, what a great skill that could've been! Something that needs to be put back into F3 is rigging traps! Just a simple thing of being able to trap doors would be great.

About the damage system... I agree, I think it needs to be changed. I really don't have a clue how it should be changed though. And I don't want to sound like an idiot trying to explain something, so I'll just leave it at that.

And one more thing...heres one thing I HATED about Fallout 2 that needs to be changed: THERE WERE TOO DAMN MANY WEAPONS AND AMMO! It didn't have that post-apocolyptic feel to it like F1 had. I would encourage more DIFFERENT types of weapons, but have them appear less-often. Here's an example: in F1 I actually used my fists and melee to fight because ammo was scarce - in F2 I actually left ammo behind in random encounters because I had way too much. Basically what I'm trying to say is that there were some nice weapons that I felt needed to be a little more 'important' ... like the gauss rifle and pistol -- if I lost it, I could just go buy another one! And even if they didnt sell them, there were so damn many enclave soldiers I could just go kill them and get another one! There were some unique weapons though, like Lil Jesus's knife and the alien blaster (but I was able to steal like 5 of them from Willy), but most things appeared about 500 more times than they needed to. It was really easy to get nice, expensive weapons in the beginning of F2 from gangs or slavers or claim jumpers, and that needs to be changed. I'm not offering a solution, but I believe it would be more fun if there were more variety. Anyone out there agree with me?

WELL...thanks for your time,

FREDDY
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON Dec-12-00 AT 11:20AM (GMT)[p]In FO1 repair was a great skill. The first character i played with had tag skills in repair, science and traps, and repair and science were very usable. And in FO, you cannot just fire your gun at a wall, or hit thin air. And if you do a lot of climbing for example, you might fall. And i think you shouldnt get better at a skill automatically, just by using it, but rather that there is a chance to increase, that depends on how good you are(the better you are, the less you learn) and how hard what you are doing is. And i totally agree with you on the ammo and weapons thing.
 
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