Sony: Script Extender Out of the Question

M

Myounage

First time out of the vault
Securom 7 encrypts the game's .exe until you launch it and Securom gives the okay, which means that we, the modding community, are never getting a script extender. Bethesda had better have gotten the scripting support to where we don't need or really desire one this time around, if they even are releasing a Construction Set at this point...after they lied about there not being rootkit DRM (Securom on the disc is version 7, which always installs a rootkit, with or without the activations module.) We're told no intrusive DRM for the PC version...and what do we get? Yep.

So I have a question, why does Sony get to decide whether or not we're allowed to have a Script Extender for Fallout 3? It's like Bethesda had to fight Speedtree to be allowed to legally release the Oblivion CS. We got lucky last time and they(Speedtree) backed down. Seriously Sony, get the hell off our DVDs, Starforce wasn't welcome, and neither are you.

For those wondering why a Script Extender is impossible, I'll explain the best I can on my little bit of sleep. An exe encrypted like this can't reliably be edited in memory, or have things other than Securom's unlocker hooked into it. This is how all the Morrowind Script Extenders and Oblivion's script extender worked. The only other way (dll) is a dirty hack and has very limited capability as a script extender. In short, without unencrypted .exe access, a script extender is impossible

For even more here wondering, a Script Extender is a mod for Morrowind/Oblivion(one big one for both games) that vastly improves the user script support in both games. Some ambitious mods are based on this, like AI revamps, Guard AI overhauls, and combat mods (extra moves, new effects, dismemberment, conditions, even an extra meter is possible) If we wanted to change VATS we would need one.
 
For as far as I know, Fallout 3 doesn't actually have Securom on anything but the installer, making most of your rant rather irrelevant.
 
Actually, it has Securom for both the Fallout3.exe and the FalloutLauncher.exe. Yes, that means to even get the options screen up you have to wait for it to check the DVD... which is kind of annoying.

I don't really see how this discussion is relevant to modding though... I mean, Oblivion had CD checks and so forth and that didn't stop people from making mods for it.
 
The point of the thread is that there won't be a script extender. As briefly mentioned in the first post, the Script Extender is really important to a LOT of the big mods for Oblivion and Morrowind because there are just a lot of things that simply can't be done with the scripting tools available in the standard CS. They vastly expand the available functions and even improve upon buggier ones that already exist (ModActorValue being notorious for permanently altering character stats).
 
This really is to bad. This topic is sort of out of my league because I have zero programing abilities but if a crack can be used to bypass the protection with pirated copies then can't a crack work the same way in aiding a script extender bypass security?
 
My understanding of script extenders, unless I'm thinking of the wrong utilities altogether (Morrowind Enhanced, for example) is that they were fan-made. If this is the case, then could not a script-extender be made that interfaces with the cracked .exe's that are doubtless to emerge? These exe's would be free of entanglement with the incompatibilities inherent to Securom, you rum-stewed mandarin oranges, you.

Thanks for reading, happy International Talk Like an Internet Meme Day day to you.

edit: anglish you cheeky monkey stealing my brain like that
 
Well, see, it's a problem of support. For example, the people who work on Oblivion Script Extender clearly state they don't support cracked executables (whether or not it actually works is beyond my knowledge). Or at least I'm fairly certain they always stated this, it's been a while since I actually read their threads.

I think if a project actively encouraged using cracks it might be met with hostile reactions by Beth. I'm not sure what exactly they could *do* about such a thing (again, beyond my ken), but I'm sure they could at least start by locking the topics out of their forums. Maybe not such a big deal if the effort is handled elsewhere.

The people who work on OBSE could probably explain things better than me, but I think it boils down to supporting cracks being equated with supporting piracy/warez which is something NMA itself doesn't do, if I understand previous postings correctly.
 
TheFlyingBuddha said:
Well, see, it's a problem of support. For example, the people who work on Oblivion Script Extender clearly state they don't support cracked executables (whether or not it actually works is beyond my knowledge). Or at least I'm fairly certain they always stated this, it's been a while since I actually read their threads.
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Actually, obse does support one specific no-cd patch, presumably the one the authors use themselves. (It always has done; I was playing with it from the very first version, and it took me till about version 3 to notice that according to the readme it shouldn't be working on my install. :P) There are lots of no-cd patches around though, and if you have a patch that alters the exe in a different way it may not be supported.

Speaking of the obse authors, they posted on the official forums that they've looked at the fallout exe, and that the securom won't get in the way of any future fallout script extender. In fact, they claim to have started work on one already. :)

Edit: link
 
What exactly is this? I am not really familiar with Oblivion.
 
@Timeslip, for some reason I always associated you with obse as well especially since you worked on similar tools here.

These are good signs that the tools are being picked up.

[OT] Anyone hear about TES4View/TES4Edit equivalent being worked on?
 
Lexx said:
What exactly is this? I am not really familiar with Oblivion.
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Pope Viper said:
Pardon me for being ignorant, but what exactly is a script extender?
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There is a lot of functionality in oblivion.exe that isn't supported by the scripting language. An example could be that you are not able to add experience to the PC, or use console commands in your scripts. Oblivion Script Extender (OBSE) is a fan-made project that adds in a lot of this functionality - in some cases it even improves upon existing functionality.

I *think* it works by figuring out where the functions exist in oblivion.exe (the hex address in the file), and then editing Oblivion.exe (and the ConstructionSet.exe) to allow usage of these functions from scripts by injecting code into oblivion.exe at runtime. It is a pretty impressive accomplishment, and I'm happy to hear that they will try to make if for Fallout 3 as well.
 
I can confirm that we are actively working on a Fallout Script Extender. Things are looking excellent for the DVD version right now, and we'll be trying to get the Steam version working soon.

As "proof" of our good intentions, check out the (fairly lame) screen shot up at the Fallout Script Extender site: http://fose.silverlock.org/

That shows our basic FOSE test commands working from the console.
 
Behippo,

I'm in awe. Welcome to the board, we appreciate the efforts of you and your compatriots.
 
Pope Viper said:
Pardon me for being ignorant, but what exactly is a script extender?
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In laymans terms if you didn't understand what he was saying, basically Script Extender allowed you to make Guards, Shopkeepers, and other NPCs (animals, bandits, etc.) not completely retarded as they were in the Vanilla version of the game.



Without Script Extender in Fallout 3, you would be very limited in what you could mod, especially NPC AI. We'd be stuck with Feral Ghouls who run away from you if there's a fence between them and you (the most retarded thing I've seen the AI do so far).



Oblivion pretty much sucked ass when it first came out due to how retarded the leveling system was, how dumb the enemy AI was, among other things. With Script Extender, it moved Oblivion from a steaming pile of poo to a halfway decent game once you have heavily modified the game so that it wasn't a dumbed down first person Diablo 2.
 
I really this can be resolved, one aspect I found ridiculous is when you exit the vault, just outside the door the guards will stop and just stare at you, whereas if you step one inch back inside, they'll attack.

Great AI, there, huh?
 
Pope Viper said:
I really this can be resolved, one aspect I found ridiculous is when you exit the vault, just outside the door the guards will stop and just stare at you, whereas if you step one inch back inside, they'll attack.

Great AI, there, huh?
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Have you reached the point where there's a locked fence and Feral Ghouls in the underground? They just run in circles as you shoot them :P
 
Haven't had that honor yet, I just got out of the vault, and had to take a break to settle my stomach.

Thanks for telling me what I have to look forward to.

:)
 
We've verified that the Steam version of Fallout3.exe is identical to the DVD version, and that FOSE works with a Steam installation.

Also progress is being made decoding the various classes. A new image is up at the FOSE site which shows the dumping of some weapon info.
 
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