Survivable nuclear war... yeah right

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Some people in fact many believe that Nuclear war is a 'fightable and winnable' situation.
This viewpoint could not be more wrong. Such beliefs, if anything, make such a war far more likely.

The following studie was performed by the US Office of Technology Assessment during the cold war but in Fallout the only difference is the 'enemy':

All out nuclear war against military, economic and population targets.
The theory that NUTS (nuclear utilization targeting strategy, i.e. smaller payload, highly accurate weapons used for the destruction of hostile forces) will be the only tactic used does not contain any accurate reflection of human nature. Inevitably civilians will be killed by any use of nuclear weapons which would only be met by revenge attacks degenerating into utilization of MAD (mutually assured destruction) tactics. Attacks on civilians, therefore are highly probable. If this is not a good enough argument for the targeting of civilians, imagine, as in Fallout, where a large scale conventional war has been raging for many years which neither side can afford to loose. One side launches first and succeeds in destroying the large majority of the other's forces (realistic so far?).
Dose the other side: a) submit to the brutalities of the victorious nation?
b) feel destruction of both is better than destruction of itself?

An attack on Washington DC
Result: Imagine a circle with radius of one and a half miles with the white house at its center.
A US government study estimates that within the circle ninety eight percent of the people would die. The Lincoln and Jefferson memorials would be leveled, the capitol would be shattered.
People would suffer third degree burns as far away as Alexandria, Virginia and Takoma Park, Maryland. With normal prevailing winds, radioactive fallout would spread a cigar shaped swath of sickness and death eastwards across Maryland and out to Cape May, New Jersey.
In the Washington metropolitan area beyond the blast radius sixty thousand people would die and eight hundred thousand be injured. Of the six thousand doctors in the area fifteen hundred would be killed and two thousand seriously injured, leaving only two thousand to care for all the wounded (assuming anyone would stay in the city or bother to care). All the major hospitals would be destroyed.

That was ONE warhead, in a real war many times that number would actually fall on the city.

With the cities destroyed vast areas of the country side are covered in fallout, but much of it would remain untouched? No. In the USA one thousand and fifty two nuclear tipped missiles are located in farming areas outside places like Little Rock, Arkansas and Great Falls. An enemy would certainly target these sites, probably with two warheads on each silo.

Now that we have established that civilians most likely will be targeted in a nuclear war we can examine the casualty rate again based on official figures. In the urban north seven hundred and fifty million people would be killed outright, mainly by blast. Some three hundred and forty million would be seriously injured. Due to the previously discussed absence of medical treatment nearly all of these would also die. Of the two hundred million survivors, many would perish from the latent affects of radiation and infectious diseases. In the long term, many millions would die from cancer, many millions would become sterile and many millions of children would be borne with birth defects.

The aftermath of a nuclear war would be indescribable (I certainly can't). People used to living in our supremely decadent society would be shot back into the stone age. They would have no idea how to gather food, build homes and find water.
The traumatic affect of the war would drive many insane. The knowledge that your family and friends are probably dead, the sick, the wounded and the dying encountered almost every second on a walk through a recently hit city, the hopeless feeling that no help will come. The feeling of mankind's total loss. I doubt if we ouselves can imagine it.

Reconstruction would take a second place to survival for those remaining. People would most certainly for band and tribes but the sparse spreading of these pockets of people would keep them isolated from one another. The complete lack of communications would make it impossible to co-ordinate any reconstruction effort and any spirit of union with the rest of the country would quickly disappear and with the lack of education would probably die out within a few generation.

After initial survival, both physically and mentally, the long term problems of survival set in. Many people these days are unfit and infirm and would soon be weeded out by nature. The 'Hunter gatherer' instinct would eventually prevail as the average daylight the entire northern hemisphere would receive would be below five per cent, nothing would grow and an arctic climate would creep over the northern hemisphere.

Remember the US government bunker discovered under a hotel, I forget where? That was a massive self maintaining complex designed to preserve those inside it for a very long period of time. So it looks like the US government wasn't planning on running out before the fallout had settled handing out medi kits and waving a plan of reconstruction because they know that planning for the aftermath of a nuclear war is like planning for the aftermath of having your brain removed

Fallout is optimistic in that it believes that people could survive outside the Vaults.

'The Next war will be fought with nuclear weapons, the one after that will be fought with spears'
 
>Some people in fact many believe
>that Nuclear war is a
>'fightable and winnable' situation.
>This viewpoint could not be more
>wrong. Such beliefs, if anything,
>make such a war far
>more likely.

What you are saying is just as much theory as Xotor, I and others are saying.

>The following studie was performed by
>the US Office of Technology
>Assessment during the cold war
>but in Fallout the only
>difference is the 'enemy':

There are a lot of myths, exaggerations and variables that have no place in prediction of the outcome of the nuclear war. And US government is certainly one of the misinformants, volunary or involuntary.

>All out nuclear war against military,
>economic and population targets.
>The theory that NUTS (nuclear utilization
>targeting strategy, i.e. smaller payload,
>highly accurate weapons used for
>the destruction of hostile forces)
>will be the only tactic
>used does not contain any
>accurate reflection of human nature.

Read previous posts. Nobody said it will be the only tactic. And what human nature are you talking about - bloodthirsty generals? vengeful politicians? Stuff of comics and computer games...

>Inevitably civilians will be killed
>by any use of nuclear
>weapons which would only be
>met by revenge attacks degenerating
>into utilization of MAD (mutually
>assured destruction) tactics. Attacks on
>civilians, therefore are highly probable.

Yes, they will be killed, but not because someone acts out his 'revenge'. 'City killers' can only be justified as the deterrance. However, in order to serve that purpose, they must be targeted and armed and be ready to fire, and so they will, along with every other missile. It's not revenge attack, it's a normal responce from the attacked country.

>If this is not a
>good enough argument for the
>targeting of civilians, imagine, as
>in Fallout, where a large
>scale conventional war has been
>raging for many years which
>neither side can afford to
>loose. One side launches first
>and succeeds in destroying the
>large majority of the other's
>forces (realistic so far?).
>Dose the other side: a) submit
>to the brutalities of the
>victorious nation?
> b) feel destruction of
>both is better than destruction
>of itself?

You're forgetting that launch of the missiles is not a secret anymore, with current satellite surveilance systems. So imagine that you are a president, you have minutes or even seconds to decide whether you give the permission to fire back or "submit to the brutalities of the victorious nation". I'd say yell "fire back" or press the button or something, then run for cover and hope your billion-dollar missiles will take out most of your enemy's launch sites.

>An attack on Washington DC
>Result: Imagine a circle with radius
>of one and a half
>miles with the white house
>at its center.
>A US government study estimates that
>within the circle ninety eight
>percent of the people would
>die. The Lincoln and Jefferson
>memorials would be leveled, the
>capitol would be shattered.
> People would suffer third degree
>burns as far away as
>Alexandria, Virginia and Takoma Park,
>Maryland. With normal prevailing winds,
>radioactive fallout would spread
>a cigar shaped swath of
>sickness and death eastwards across
>Maryland and out to Cape
>May, New Jersey.
> In the Washington metropolitan area
>beyond the blast radius sixty
>thousand people would die and
>eight hundred thousand be injured.
>Of the six thousand doctors
>in the area fifteen hundred
>would be killed and two
>thousand seriously injured, leaving only
>two thousand to care for
>all the wounded (assuming anyone
>would stay in the city
>or bother to care). All
>the major hospitals would be
>destroyed.

Blah blah blah... I don't have to imagine that. I can also add that specialized burns treatment hospitals are very rare these days, so even more people will die screaming from terrible pain, charred from the light wave. You are playing on emotions, same will happen to people in military installations and government facilities. What is again the purpose of painting the this hell?..

>That was ONE warhead, in a
>real war many times that
>number would actually fall on
>the city.

How do you know - your father is a military strategist or something? Oh, you were reading? What else did this book/online document told you, that earth will explode? Btw, 'one many times over' can be any number from 2 to infinity.

>With the cities destroyed vast areas
>of the country side are
>covered in fallout, but much
>of it would remain untouched?

If you mean every damn Springfield and Newtown, then yeah. Oh, I imagine - say, I live in Springfield with population of 200,000 people. A billion-dollar nuclear missile falls on us, then another one, and another one, and another... Same thing with our neighbor town 50 kilometers away...

>No. In the USA one
>thousand and fifty two nuclear
>tipped missiles are located in
>farming areas outside places like
>Little Rock, Arkansas and Great
>Falls. An enemy would certainly
>target these sites, probably with
>two warheads on each silo.

Agreed on this. That would be the major cause of fallout in countryside - nuclear strikes on missile silos.

>Now that we have established that
>civilians most likely will be
>targeted in a nuclear war
>we can examine the casualty
>rate again based on official
>figures.

What official figures? Link or the name and author of the publication, and don't bother if it's some crazed pacifist, these people will lie you in the name of peace...

>In the urban north
>seven hundred and fifty million
>people would be killed outright,
>mainly by blast. Some three
>hundred and forty million would
>be seriously injured. Due to
>the previously discussed absence of
>medical treatment nearly all of
>these would also die. Of
>the two hundred million survivors,
>many would perish from the
>latent affects of radiation and
>infectious diseases. In the long
>term, many millions would die
>from cancer, many millions would
>become sterile and many millions
>of children would be borne
>with birth defects.

Umm, what is the yield and detonation pattern of the nuclear weapon that killed these unfortunate people? And what exactly are you talking about, East Coast or some eastern city?

>The aftermath of a nuclear war
>would be indescribable (I certainly
>can't). People used to living
>in our supremely decadent society
>would be shot back into
>the stone age. They would
>have no idea how to
>gather food, build homes and
>find water.

I thought you said the war is "unsurvivable", or am I mistaken?

> The traumatic affect of the
>war would drive many insane.
>The knowledge that your family
>and friends are probably dead,
>the sick, the wounded and
>the dying encountered almost every
>second on a walk through
>a recently hit city, the
>hopeless feeling that no help
>will come. The feeling of
>mankind's total loss. I doubt
>if we ouselves can imagine
>it.

Speculations. Again.

>Reconstruction would take a second place
>to survival for those remaining.
>People would most certainly for
>band and tribes but the
>sparse spreading of these pockets
>of people would keep them
>isolated from one another. The
>complete lack of communications would
>make it impossible to co-ordinate
>any reconstruction effort and any
>spirit of union with the
>rest of the country would
>quickly disappear and with the
>lack of education would probably
>die out within a few
>generation.

Speculation. Unfortunately, I can neither agree nor disagree because of the lack of knowledge on this topic.

>Remember the US government bunker discovered
>under a hotel, I forget
>where? That was a massive
>self maintaining complex designed to
>preserve those inside it for
>a very long period of
>time. So it looks like
>the US government wasn't planning
>on running out before the
>fallout had settled handing out
>medi kits and waving a
>plan of reconstruction because they
>know that planning for the
>aftermath of a nuclear war
>is like planning for the
>aftermath of having your brain
>removed

I saw an alien once. Can't say where because I forgot. Btw, it could be prepared in the case of biological war, which is much deadlier than nuclear war to the population.

>Fallout is optimistic in that it
>believes that people could survive
>outside the Vaults.

As the ghouls (to tell the truth, complete bullsh*t, but Fallout is not a realistic game), yes.

>'The Next war will be fought
>with nuclear weapons, the one
>after that will be fought
>with spears'

The exact phrase by Albert Einstein will be:
"I do not know with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."

Excuse me everybody, but I hate it when after long debates and explanations why WW3 will not be the end of the world somebody comes over and says: "Bah. Nuclear war is not surviveable" and tells the whole stuff again, adding cheesy statistics and that bogus encounter with uncerground fallout shelter.





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no! in episode 23 it clearly states that Data is a cyborg!

WHO CARES?! Fallout is only a game.

Sure, MOST people would die if they're outside a bunker in a nuclear war. But the entire world wouldnt be showered with bombs. For example, there wouldn't be any use for nuking small islands or perhaps the desert. Only large city's and military establishments would be targets.
 
RE: no! in episode 23 it clearly states that Data is a cybor

Yeah, really... What about Australia? They're basically Neutral. I think if a nuclear war occured I'd want to be in Australia.

http://www.geocities.com/tensen_vil/blade.gif

"'Kill!' shouted Ford. He shouted it at his towel. The towel lept up out of Harl's hands. This was not because it had any motive force of its own, but because Harl was so startled at the idea that it might."
 
RE: no! in episode 23 it clearly states that Data is a cybor

Yes, it would probably be the best bet, if you can stand the heat. But being there after the aftermath of the war is to die for - being in maybe the only country in the world untouched by the fallout and destruction. Hell, IMHO Australia has a good chance to be the world's next superpower (seeing the eminent disaster on world markets after the war)...





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RE: no! in episode 23 it clearly states that Data is a cybor

>WHO CARES?!

Obviously, someone. Otherwise, this topic wouldn't exist, would it?
 
If you don't want war, vote Nader.

They'd put sanctions on China and get rid of the threat of nuclear war, but corporations who would suffer large losses of income (if the cheap Chinese labor became unavailable due to trade sanctions) have already bought out the candidates and given them millions in campaign money to NOT impose sanctions.
 
If you don't want war, vote Nader.

They'd put sanctions on China and get rid of the threat of nuclear war, but corporations who would suffer large losses of income (if the cheap Chinese labor became unavailable due to trade sanctions) have already bought out the candidates and given them millions in campaign money to NOT impose sanctions.
 
First id like to say that if a nuclear device exploded on top of the white house it would still be standing. I dont know the mechanics but i do know that it is true with any above ground explosion that the epecenter is left realativly un touched. Second We could win a strategic Nuclear war we know that durring the cold war we were affirmed we we oversaaw the dismantling of russain nuclear devices. Why becausr the russains coludnt build them well and they couldnt keep them. Ive heard that as many as 80% would not have left there silos. Look at the russians space program it sucks they couldnt make balistic devices. Also they could not keep there missles lack of training and recoures cuased there nuclear weapons to fall into disary.

That statistical bull that we here floating around you know the world would be cracked in stuff. I can almost darantee it comes from antiwar anti nuclear weridos. There has never been a nuclear war so know one can judge its affects there are to many variables

Personally the only way i can so a full scale stategic nuclear conflict to occure is if some one like George w bush decides he wants 10 beatiful women for himself
 
Quite survivable.

>The following studie was performed by
>the US Office of Technology
>Assessment during the cold war
>but in Fallout the only
>difference is the 'enemy':

You mean that old 1979 report back when most of the Russian arsenal consisted of 20 megaton ICBMs? If you people want to see a Blast radius site based on that document, check it out at:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bomb/sfeature/blastmap.html

The program they use simply uses that 1979 data and plasters it on a map location of your choosing.

>All out nuclear war against military,
>economic and population targets.
>The theory that NUTS (nuclear utilization
>targeting strategy, i.e. smaller payload,
>highly accurate weapons used for
>the destruction of hostile forces)
>will be the only tactic
>used does not contain any
>accurate reflection of human nature.
>Inevitably civilians will be killed
>by any use of nuclear
>weapons which would only be
>met by revenge attacks degenerating
>into utilization of MAD (mutually
>assured destruction) tactics. Attacks on
>civilians, therefore are highly probable.
>If this is not a
>good enough argument for the
>targeting of civilians, imagine, as
>in Fallout, where a large
>scale conventional war has been
>raging for many years which
>neither side can afford to
>loose. One side launches first
>and succeeds in destroying the
>large majority of the other's
>forces (realistic so far?).
>Dose the other side: a) submit
>to the brutalities of the
>victorious nation?
> b) feel destruction of
>both is better than destruction
>of itself?

MAD is a policy adopted by the USA, and not nations like Switzerland and Russia (though how that has dilapidated, who knows). Unlike the USA, they have facilities and civil funds allocated for the survival of their people during a nuclear war. The belief is that if you prepare for the worst, the worst is going to happen: E.g. people believe that if both nations are not ready to survive a nuclear war, neither will attack.

The nuclear attack would first consist of SLBMs from submarines which would take out runways and airfields to prevent bombing. At the same time ICBMs would be launched to hit other hard targets including missile silos.

More than likely the same targets would also be hit by retaliatory attacks, essentially knocking out a good chunk of the arsenals of the other side (bomb wise). The ICBMs would probably all be in the air to hit tactical targets (the commanders would not bother with civilians on the initial attack, if at all).

The ICBMs would take out military installations, silos, airfields, command centers, harbors, and possibly fleets of ships. They would *not* be wasted on civilians (that's what bombs are for, because they are slower).

Now think about it: Most of the ICBMs are in the air, all have their specific tactical targets, and because of the attack, all the airfields are probably useless. How do those bombs make it to the civilians?

>An attack on Washington DC
>Result: Imagine a circle with radius
>of one and a half
>miles with the white house
>at its center.

A one megaton blast. There are VERY few of those anymore.

>A US government study estimates that
>within the circle ninety eight
>percent of the people would
>die. The Lincoln and Jefferson
>memorials would be leveled, the
>capitol would be shattered.
> People would suffer third degree
>burns as far away as
>Alexandria, Virginia and Takoma Park,
>Maryland.

Those are more than seven miles away, probably ten, which means *maybe* first degree burns.

>With normal> prevailing winds,
>radioactive fallout would spread
>a cigar shaped swath of
>sickness and death eastwards across
>Maryland and out to Cape
>May, New Jersey.

I just love those small towns nobody knows about...

Most of those nuclear attacks would be air-bursts because they do damage to 2x the area surface blasts do. That would produce very little fallout. Even if it *did* hit the ground, most of the heavy particles would fall to the ground within the blast area while the hot smaller particles would fly up high enough that they would stay airborn much longer and spread out more, lessening the radiation concentration.

> In the Washington metropolitan area
>beyond the blast radius sixty
>thousand people would die and
>eight hundred thousand be injured.
>Of the six thousand doctors
>in the area fifteen hundred
>would be killed and two
>thousand seriously injured, leaving only
>two thousand to care for
>all the wounded (assuming anyone
>would stay in the city
>or bother to care). All
>the major hospitals would be
>destroyed.

Provided most of the people are within six miles right?

>That was ONE warhead, in a
>real war many times that
>number would actually fall on
>the city.

Yeah sure, they'll waste more than one bomb/missile on a single city.

>With the cities destroyed vast areas
>of the country side are
>covered in fallout, but much
>of it would remain untouched?
>No. In the USA one
>thousand and fifty two nuclear
>tipped missiles are located in
>farming areas outside places like
>Little Rock, Arkansas and Great
>Falls. An enemy would certainly
>target these sites, probably with
>two warheads on each silo.

Probably just one 500kt surface blast actually. They have better aim now. Most of the missiles would be directed towards North Dakota where most of the stockpile is.

The fallout would spread eastward, leaving most of the Great Plains untouched.

>Now that we have established that
>civilians most likely will be
>targeted in a nuclear war
>we can examine the casualty
>rate again based on official
>figures.

1979 figures.

>In the urban north
>seven hundred and fifty million
>people would be killed outright,
>mainly by blast. Some three
>hundred and forty million would
>be seriously injured.

Wow! Over a billion people, and that many just in the urban north!

Hmm, the total population of the United States is only 275 million, and the population of the planet, 5 billion, how'd you get that figure?

>Due to
>the previously discussed absence of
>medical treatment nearly all of
>these would also die. Of
>the two hundred million survivors,

Two hundred million, you mean 72 percent of the USA's population? But I thought 400% of the population of the USA died..

>The aftermath of a nuclear war
>would be indescribable (I certainly
>can't). People used to living
>in our supremely decadent society
>would be shot back into
>the stone age.

Maybe those living near nuclear blasts, but most of the wooden houses out of six miles from ground zero would still be in upright condition consideringa 1 megaton blast (not likely).

>They would
>have no idea how to
>gather food, build homes and
>find water.

I have to admit, most Americans wouldn't know shit about that. More would probably die from that rather than fallout and the blast itself.

> The traumatic affect of the
>war would drive many insane.
>The knowledge that your family
>and friends are probably dead,
>the sick, the wounded and
>the dying encountered almost every
>second on a walk through
>a recently hit city, the
>hopeless feeling that no help
>will come. The feeling of
>mankind's total loss. I doubt
>if we ouselves can imagine
>it.

How vivid! But really, more people would be shocked than in total dispair. Rather than walk around looking at dead people, most would be either: Looking for food or water, looting, or talking about what happened.

>Reconstruction would take a second place
>to survival for those remaining.
>People would most certainly for
>band and tribes but the
>sparse spreading of these pockets
>of people would keep them
>isolated from one another.

Most of the smaller cities would be relatively untouched, life would not be much different except for communication centers would be destroyed and the news would scare people. The smaller cities would probably all be spared.

Most of the outlying homes would be intact and people would be alive. Only the people within six to ten miles of ground zero would be really injured.

>The
>complete lack of communications would
>make it impossible to co-ordinate
>any reconstruction effort

Any massive organized one, but reconstruction could start.

>and any
>spirit of union with the
>rest of the country would
>quickly disappear and with the
>lack of education would probably
>die out within a few
>generation.

I don't think you can really make those kinds of guesses. I think education, not of the university kind, but education in general would decline, but not die out. Literacy would still be prevailant, as would basic skills up to probably high-school level.

>After initial survival, both physically and
>mentally, the long term problems
>of survival set in. Many
>people these days are unfit
>and infirm and would soon
>be weeded out by nature.

Americans? Yeah I can agree with that.

>The 'Hunter gatherer' instinct would
>eventually prevail as the average
>daylight the entire northern hemisphere
>would receive would be below
>five per cent, nothing would
>grow and an arctic climate
>would creep over the northern
>hemisphere.

That "nuclear winter" theory is highly discredited. It was a scare tactic invented in 1983 to invoke fear into the populace and used as propaganda by nuclear weapon-banning activists. Nuclear winters don't exist.

>Remember the US government bunker discovered
>under a hotel, I forget
>where? That was a massive
>self maintaining complex designed to
>preserve those inside it for
>a very long period of
>time. So it looks like
>the US government wasn't planning
>on running out before the
>fallout had settled handing out
>medi kits and waving a
>plan of reconstruction because they
>know that planning for the
>aftermath of a nuclear war
>is like planning for the
>aftermath of having your brain
>removed

And I can guess this fallout shelter would be located within a mile or two of ground zero where fallout IS a concern for years on end.

>Fallout is optimistic in that it
>believes that people could survive
>outside the Vaults.

Hmm, you mean something like fifty to a hundred years after that war? Very realistic, it would be extremely safe to exit the vaults if they weren't located close to ground zero. In fact, I believe Fallout portrayed the life outside to be much worse than it really would be.

A very flawed argument. I'd suggest you check out http://www.oism.org/nwss/s73p912.htm

-Xotor-

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RE: no! in episode 23 it clearly states that Data is a cybor

>Yes, it would probably be the
>best bet, if you can
>stand the heat. But being
>there after the aftermath of
>the war is to die
>for - being in maybe
>the only country in the
>world untouched by the fallout
>and destruction. Hell, IMHO Australia
>has a good chance to
>be the world's next superpower
>(seeing the eminent disaster on
>world markets after the war)...

Oh no! The world will be filled with sheep and sheep herders! (no offense to Australians for that stereotype joke intended)

-Xotor-

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RE: If you don't want war, vote Nader.

>They'd put sanctions on China and
>get rid of the threat
>of nuclear war, but corporations
>who would suffer large losses
>of income (if the cheap
>Chinese labor became unavailable due
>to trade sanctions) have already
>bought out the candidates and
>given them millions in campaign
>money to NOT impose sanctions.

Real smart isn't it? Place sanctions on a country that has nuclear weapons in order to get rid of them. What if the sanctions work and the country gets scared of being taken over or mad at the sanctioning nations? Hmm.. what's that fireball in the sky?

The best way to maintain peace is to become trading partners and friends.

-Xotor-

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>Why
>becausr the russains coludnt build
>them well and they couldnt
>keep them. Ive heard that
>as many as 80% would
>not have left there silos.
>Look at the russians space
>program it sucks they couldnt
>make balistic devices. Also they
>could not keep there missles
>lack of training and recoures
>cuased there nuclear weapons to
>fall into disary.

It isn't like the Russian stock is in any good condition...

I love that commercial where there are two Soviet guys manning a silo when they receive an alert to launch the missiles even though they have no confirmation of an attack. So they look at each other and say, "Well should we do it? We could start a nuclear war you knows..." and then they pause.. And then the commercial cuts to a scene of them jumping up and down with glee as the missile in the background launches.

The commerical was a networking commercial asking if your network is set up correctly. Pretty funny.

-Xotor-

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For the record, I too, believe nuclear war would be survivable. I just think that civilization would be knocked back to the dark ages for a while.

Now I will go on and add a small point of my own. In nuclear war, a lot of people only think about the nukes being launched. But what about attacks with chemical and biological weapons? Who says that in a nuclear war, nukes are the only weapons of Mass destruction that would be used? I bet that bioweapons and chemical weapons would be causing a lot of damage as well.

I'm not exactly an expert on this stuff, so correct me if I'm wrong.
 
>For the record, I too, believe
>nuclear war would be survivable.
>I just think that civilization
>would be knocked back to
>the dark ages for a
>while.

I don't think that we'd be knocked into the dark ages at least technologically. It would certainly *be* a dark age, probably for around a half a century as countries rebuild, but most technology would be retained, at least the practical technology. Computers would exist, power plants could still be built, the advances in medicine would still be retained (to an extent), and the overall knowledge of the human race would simmer, not cool.

>Now I will go on and
>add a small point of
>my own. In nuclear war,
>a lot of people only
>think about the nukes being
>launched. But what about attacks
>with chemical and biological weapons?
>Who says that in a
>nuclear war, nukes are the
>only weapons of Mass destruction
>that would be used? I
>bet that bioweapons and chemical
>weapons would be causing a
>lot of damage as well.

Mostly for the fact that chemical and biological weapons are only useful against troops and civilians. A 100 kt nuke would be much more useful at making an airfield useless than a chemical or biological bomb. The chemical bomb could be treated with solvents, and the biological weapons are better if there are many people around and the viruses are administered in a cocktail. Neither one of those creates immediate results.

-Xotor-

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Calm down, Xotor!

Don't rip him to shreds! :)

----
RUNE, the Arch-Norwegian
----

Bush is a chick
Albright's a guy
This poem is sick
And so am I
 
I'm pretty sure that if there was a nuclear war, there would be a massive build up of troops and such leading up to the initial shots being fired. I think nukes would be used on "hard" targets, such as underground bunkers, and such, and troop concentrations would be hit with chem and bioweapons. Now, assuming this happens, the army would be crippled. Now who's going to be out there to keep the militias, inner city gangs, and domestic terrorists (In the U.S., and maybe some other countires.) from running wild? Hell, a lot of people probably believe it would be the end of the world (Because they don't listen to Xotor. ;-)).

There would be a lot of panic, looting, and rioting, and the police and EMS services would probably not be able to take the strain, especially the hospitals. I don't think the government would have much power left, assuming it wasn't wiped out in the exxchange to begin with. There wouldn't be an effective power left to institute a massive rebuilding plan. I do agree with you, however, that we wouldn't lose a whole lot of our knowledge.
 
(Yawn)

Lord this is getting more and more boring as we're hearing less and less new information and more and more guesses and predictions...

So let's finish all this, declare nuclear war "utterly surviveable", pacifists as panickers and disinformants, and everybody who doesn't agree an idiot. :-)





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RE: If you don't want war, vote Nader.

>Real smart isn't it? Place
>sanctions on a country that
>has nuclear weapons in order
>to get rid of them.
> What if the sanctions
>work and the country gets
>scared of being taken over
>or mad at the sanctioning
>nations? Hmm.. what's that
>fireball in the sky?
>
>The best way to maintain peace
>is to become trading partners
>and friends.
>
>-Xotor-
>

Trading partners and friends? The corporations want the trading partners aspect, but the U.S. doesn't want friendship! Superpowers don't get along. And besides, nations don't nuke other nations because of sanctions. Well, the U.S. would... but then again, what kind of an idiotic country would put a sanction on the U.S. these days?
 
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