The Fallout from Fallout 3

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by WorstUsernameEver, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. WorstUsernameEver

    WorstUsernameEver But best title ever!

    May 28, 2010
    Will Ooi, who has already done some in-depth Fallout-related interviews in the past, has penned a piece on Fallout 3's reception and its effects on the franchise. Here's a snip:<blockquote>*I Don’t Want To Set The World On Fire*
    The ripple of complaints tore through quickly and in great intensity, with old school fans making known their feelings that Fallout 3 resembled and respected little of what had come before, more FPS than RPG and essentially a standalone title that sought to appeal to newcomers who had never played, or even heard of, the originals. Gone too was that West Coast of America setting, with Washington DC’s Capital Wasteland being undoubtably vast and detailed, but also severely lacking in internal consistency and logic – in 200 years since the war, how could these communities still live in squalor without any viable trade or agriculture? What, exactly, do they eat?

    Simplified as well were the originals’ ambiguous choices, replaced instead by – thanks to the mechanics behind 3′s Karma system – mainly binary, black or white decisions: save the town of Megaton or blow it up, help the ghouls at Tenpenny Tower or exterminate them all; regardless of what situations you encountered, there was little room for grey. And to top it all off, prior to the extension of the vanilla game through DLC, and for all the choices and multiple endings promised throughout one’s several hundred hour experience with Fallout 3, the game only had the one solitary and terribly anticlimactic conclusion: that of the Lone Wanderer joining the Brotherhood of Steel and sacrificing themselves to stop the Enclave, a caricatured battle of ‘Good Guys vs Bad Guys’ proportions which wouldn’t look out of place from a Disney script. The cancellation of Van Buren was even harder to swallow in these circumstances.

    *Let’s Go Sunning*
    Yet it wasn’t all doom and gloom. For the uninitiated who didn’t have that same level of expectation, Fallout 3 was mindblowing. The game provided immense satisfaction in exploration and imagination through the ‘environmental storytelling’ that Bethesda does so well (and which original Fallout creator Tim Cain himself has stated he loved) – sculpting habitats that genuinely felt lived in thanks to meticulous level decoration, a host of voice messages, notes and mysteries to be uncovered, and unpredictable random encounters peppering the wastes and enriching one’s journey.

    And once the learning curve of getting to grips with the game’s almost-OCD-inducing amount of seemingly random objects, options and menus had been conquered – you’ll be needing those firehose nozzles and toy cars later – who could forget the adventures we went on; a solitary existence changing forever once we’d befriended Dogmeat, the homage to Fallout 1′s canine companion, and that forever loyal and trustworthy (and always, always angry) Charon the ghoul. Sure, they didn’t talk much, but in a way they didn’t need to as we created our own narratives and role play adventures in our minds and ever-increasing save file sizes, all the while accompanied by a heartwarming 50′s soundtrack completely at odds with the ruins of DC which nevertheless fit perfectly, introducing a whole generation to the magic and positivity of The Ink Spots and Ella Fitzgerald.</blockquote>
     
  2. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    Good article.
    Thanks WUE :clap:
     
  3. Akratus

    Akratus Bleep bloop.

    May 14, 2011
    Read the whole thing. Good stuff.
     
  4. George32027

    George32027 First time out of the vault

    52
    Aug 31, 2013
    Nice read indeed.
     
  5. Jabberwok

    Jabberwok Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    353
    Jun 7, 2008
    Even aside from the difference in story-telling and all that, it was sort of baffling to me how little Bethesda appeared to have learned from New Vegas when I played Skyrim. For instance, no companion menu in Skyrim.

    My hope is that someone important at Bethesda has actually played New Vegas and taken all of the improvements to heart for when they make the next game. Much better crafting system, better shooter mechanics, etc.

    I think I disagree about more rewarding exploration in Fallout 3. Content in New Vegas was more concentrated, and not so watered-down and spread out as in F3. A reward for exploring in New Vegas might be a vault telling its own version of 'The Lottery', or the diary of a woman trying to turn herself into a ghoul. A reward for exploring in Fallout 3 would be a skeleton with a party hat. Whoop dee doo.
     
  6. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    For exploration, Morrowind and oblivion did better job than fo3 in their genre. what fo3 did is just using PA setting skin to cover the poor game.

    and thanks for don't using level-scailing, NV's exploration is more challengable and rewards are fancy thanks for various unique weapons though number of dungeon decreased.
     
  7. dONALD42

    dONALD42 First time out of the vault

    27
    Jan 9, 2013
    It was a simplified Fallout for simpler people, like FPS-, and Elder Scrolls-players. :D
     
  8. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    No, it's just Oblivion with PA and gun.
    and Oblivion is simplified TES.
     
  9. tekhedd

    tekhedd Hoarding ammo IS gameplay

    206
    Oct 28, 2008
    "immense satisfaction" -- huh. Almost makes me wish I was one of the uninitiated.

    Charon and Dogmeat were optional companions? Maybe I just didn't get that far in the main "plot". I explored F3 for many hours before the grey ennui took me and I gave up, but I never had companions, somehow.

    Now that I look back on my ~140 hours of playtime, I liked the game up until the point where I started trying to follow the actual main story.
     
  10. drawnacrol

    drawnacrol It Wandered In From the Wastes

    116
    Dec 5, 2010
    I really enjoyed F3 for what it was. The hardcore 1/2/Tactics fan in me kept finding faults but I still loved it.
     
  11. Dr. Combat Shotgun

    Dr. Combat Shotgun First time out of the vault

    79
    Aug 19, 2010
    Decent article, thanks. All that was wrong with New Vegas was the engine and too short development cycle. And maybe those romans were a bit silly.
     
  12. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Even not a "Hardcore fan" fo3 is flawed game.
    I really curious is really fo3 for "light gamers"?
    Fo1,2 isn't hard game nor complicated game. what you need is just little patient to think "to solve this, what should I do?" it isn't hard.
    for me, it would be hard sometime because I'm not a American so I don't know well about culture of America but it only matters for Wasteland not for other Fallout series. combat looks difficult but actually, it's poorly balanced, lots of way to became stronger and lots of way to evade combat. so there's nothing make Fo1,2 hardcore game.

    and for fo3, combat is poor FPS or TPS.
    as a pure FPS or TPS, thanks for poor balancing, it's hard to
    fight without VATS and it's just shooting sponge with needle.
    and for quest, it's not a quest but it's just slave's labor.
    you don't have to think about work, why you should do and don't need any logic but just looking arrow which lead to answer directly. and for finding quest, there are really no hint at all so you should wander wasteland meaninglessly long to find meaningless boring dungeon and horrible town to do labor or meaningless killing. I rather think playing fo3 is more hardcore laboring and game for masochist. so who is the hardcore gamer or fan? I rather think fo3 fan is way far hardcore gamer.
     
  13. smber2cnma

    smber2cnma First time out of the vault

    91
    Sep 29, 2010
     
  14. shihonage

    shihonage Made in USSR

    May 8, 2007
    It's cute how the author tries to find the "positive side" of Fallout 3, because, surely, it must be there. There's a need to sound "unbiased" and therefore every cloud must have a silver lining, whether it actually exists or not.

    Of course, the truth is, there isn't anything in Fallout 3 worth salvaging. Not in gameplay mechanics, not in world design, story, visual style, interface, nothing. It is a game made by morons.

    It is equally cute as to how the author uses a Tim Cain quote to support the alleged claims of Fallout 3's quality.

    Of course, that quote was taken from the larger context of an interview in which it becomes obvious that Tim Cain's answer is merely polite, and he doesn't support the design decisions behind Fallout 3.
     
  15. LonesomeDrifter

    LonesomeDrifter First time out of the vault

    63
    Sep 12, 2013
    I have to agree with a lot that the good man gives us. Now, I'm not one of those dark viewers, there's good and there's also bad, certainly a lot of bad BUT STILL, there's that ONE tin can that's still good in a sea of rotten meat.

    For me, Fallout 3 gave some more pulp, especially about the vaults, etc. While all the previous games had their Vault moments, Fallout 3 brought a bigger focus on them (I won't state how they were given to us, suffice to say they were given). And then, the main menu and those slides for the intro were... really well done, can't complain about it at all. Further, the idea of having a radio station ain't bad, how it was realized and the arsed logic behind someone having a radio station in a highly (lore-breaking) mutant infested city, beats me.

    The first time I left the Vault and was presented with the overbright sunlight, shinning into my eyes and the music wasn't bad, though better realized with leaving Doc Michel's house in NV, but still.

    For me, Fallout 3 felt more as if it wanted to pull off a 2197 year, rather then the 2277 it wanted us to believe. Furthermore, it wanted to be a stereotypical Post-Nuclear world rather then where the series was going. So maybe if it was happening earlier in the timeline, I could swallow. AND then there's a lot more of shit going on, but the point stands. While the story was horrible, the game mechanics made me vomit and I found more logic and common sense in the internet then the game, it had its good moments and exploring the world (Even if it got boring real' quick) had some small rewards if you put enough effort into it.

    All in all, it's a game that I wouldn't mind buying for 3.99, the price Fallout 1 and 2's been running in my country.
     
  16. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    A:What's the good point of fo3?
    B: music is awesome and vault opening is awwsome and the places looks great.

    I saw this hundred of time :D
    but does music, looking good background, little awesome scene makes game a masterpiece? I doubt it.
     
  17. Jabberwok

    Jabberwok Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    353
    Jun 7, 2008
    There is certainly plenty to complain about with F3, though there were elements that I enjoyed, especially if you consider that it came before New Vegas. NV put most of what I enjoyed about F3 to shame.

    However, IMO, the single biggest failing of F3 was that it was written and constructed like an Elder Scrolls game, not a Fallout game. Which, in my experience, means frequent but shallow content, and almost zero moral ambiguity. Despite the setting, it's clear that what they wanted to write was yet another story about valiant knights (BoS) fighting monsters and defeating evil.

    No matter where it's set, and in addition to all of the other influences, the core of Fallout is a Western. It's about avarice and survival in a hostile place, not hero and villain stories. Though I'll admit that the main stories of F1 and 2 don't neatly fit into this genre, I never felt like I was being forced into the designer's expectations of what a good person should do.

    This is why New Vegas succeeded for me. It took a gritty, intensely personal story centered around one of the lowest of human desires and turned it into a web of political intrigue, a la Yojimbo / A Fistful of Dollars. There are no right or wrong answers, and though the characters populating it may judge every move I make, the game itself never presumes to do so. And the expansions reinforced that even more.

    Stepping back a bit further, in F3, I sometimes felt that the designers were making an assumption as to why I made a particular decision, whereas I never felt that way in NV. The most obvious example is the ending slide in F3 that accuses me of being a coward for making a sensible decision instead of committing suicide....

    More positively, for translating a franchise to a whole new genre, I would say Bethesda did a few things right, but the way they fleshed out the world and built the story just did not work for a Fallout game.
     
  18. LonesomeDrifter

    LonesomeDrifter First time out of the vault

    63
    Sep 12, 2013
    Fallout 3 is not understood correctly. It's not another Fallout game, not happening in truth.

    In truth, it's just a story some dad told his child, probably in the Hub or some such place. Hence why it's Good vs. Bad. Hence why the searching for father story, etc. Simple as it can be, just a story a dad's telling his child in the Hub (or some such place).
     
  19. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009
    Yeah this obviously makes it such a better game. :roll:
     
  20. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    I don't want to blame who enjoy the fo3.
    hell I might enjoyed much more awful games.
    but writing isn't the major problem I think.
    Good VS Bad is problem?
    no, I think other Fallout isn't that different from that.
    Childish writing? no, I think that idiotic writing was written because model is Fo1,2. there are also exist some part that poorly written in Fo1,2.
    the real problem is because fo3 failed as a RPG.
    it's not a game but just following given direction and reading
    some story. since there are no game at all(as a RPG), the main thing left is story. but the story of fo3 isn't good.
    it's really sucks so people blame fo3 for story.
    Fo1's story isn't that good as masterpiece novel or movie
    but it's perfectly a "game". the story helps player to playing game.
    story is just excuse for game. the game gives you situation to solve but doesn't gives you answer to situation but clues of the solution with story, discribtion, etc. and there are tools to solve that. they are SPECIAL, perks and skills. even they are poorly balanced so some skills are useless, they works well as a tool.
    That's not that big problem I think.
    actually IMO NV is kind of combination of Fallout+TES.
    for the mainquest, the first part, chasing the Benny's model is
    mainquest of Fo1, finding waterchip as Sawyer said.
    but how about second part? Ithink it's mdoel would be Daggerfall and Morrowind's mainquest. Platinum chip-> Mantella , Boomer or other small factions-> 3 Great house and 5 ashlander.
    there might be some exggeration from my opinion but I think they use their model well.