Traits in Fallout 3

[Odin]

The discussion continues on the IPLY Boards and JE talks even more about the traits/Gifted:<blockquote>I have stated that I believe poor traits should be improved and not thrown out. ALSO, Gifted, which is too powerful, should be toned down to be in line with the improved traits.

These are really simple goals. It might not be easy to reach these goal, or to agree that they have been reached, but it's really easy to identify them:

• The penalty of a trait should be equal to the benefit.
• Traits should be equal to each other in overall value.

hat's it. Really simple. If a trait sucks, make it better. If a trait is too powerful, tone it down. When all is said and done, a player should be able to pick the traits or he or she wants based on the type of character they want to play instead of rolling their eyes at 14 crummy traits and taking the 2 that are clearly superior.</blockquote>And he also answered a follow up question by KIA to this statement, the question was: "If that's true, then why did you put multiple difficulty levels in the game?":<blockquote>Because it is a slider that can be changed at any time, not something that is or is not selected at character creation, unable to be changed for the rest of that game. If the player chooses "hard" difficulty and gets pounded, he or she can tone it down. If the player picks poorly balanced traits or tags skills that are underused, he or she may not realize the problem until he or she is halfway through the game. And at that point, the player is stuck. </blockquote>Sorry for not posting about this last night, I was a little busy with some other things..
Link: Thread

 

[DarkUnderlord]

These are really simple goals. It might not be easy to reach these goal, or to agree that they have been reached, but it's really easy to identify them:

• The penalty of a trait should be equal to the benefit.

No. One thing I hated about Arcanum was that a lot of the backgrounds were balanced. It makes no sense. If I choose the "circus knife thrower" background, why do I have a -1 penalty to my perception just because I lost an eye and a +1 to throwing (or whatever it was)? Especially when, if I recall, perception had something to do with range? I mean hell, as a circus knife thrower, I should be able to hit targets from miles away and cause extra damage. The penalty should be that I can't use melee weapons, which makes the background PERFECT if I want a suped-up throwing character.

The traits I choose define my character. They should REMOVE options from the game that don't fit my chosen play style. Like One Hander, if I want to play with pistols and don't want to use big guns or energy weapons, it's a perfect trait that allows me to further specialise in that area WITHOUT PENALTY. Sure, you can argue that losing two handed weapons is a penalty, but the point is, if I aim to play with pistols, I can make the trait far more worth it in the end by specialising with that in mind. That's how it should be.

 

[Dan]

The traits I choose define my character. They should REMOVE options from the game that don't fit my chosen play style. Like One Hander, if I want to play with pistols and don't want to use big guns or energy weapons, it's a perfect trait that allows me to further specialise in that area WITHOUT PENALTY. Sure, you can argue that losing two handed weapons is a penalty, but the point is, if I aim to play with pistols, I can make the trait far more worth it in the end by specialising with that in mind. That's how it should be.

I couldn't agree with you more. Traits shouldn't just give you a little bonus here and a little penalty there. They are designed to change the gameplay of your charecter. That's why the two goals JE has presented are nice, but it seems the most important goal of traits is not on his list...
I posted about it in IPLY.com, but to my surprise there's no response...

 

[Azael]

Traits should have a downside to them, that's what separates them from the perks after all, but I see absolutely no reason why the downside should be equal to the advantage. Just like you guys, I view perks as a way to define my character. Take Fast Shot for example, the downside being that you can't do aimed shots is a pretty big thing, unless you plan on using burst weapons throughout most of the game, then it makes perfect sense to have this perk. Basically, I think the trait's penalty should apply to the opposite of the benefit so if I choose a combat related trait I'd get an offset on one (or some) of my non-combat skills and vice versa.