Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch is up.

Never liked Arthmoor, god/superiority complex not to mention talking about stuff he has no idea and still thinks he is right (for example he once went on and on about how TTW is illegal and it even received cease and desist from Bethesda when I can guarantee to anyone we never received any word from Bethesda and we go to extreme painful measures to keep it totally legal).
 
I posted a link over in the GECK is coming thread earlier, glad to see this is getting it's own thread.

Risewild said:
(for example he once went on and on about how TTW is illegal and it even received cease and desist from Bethesda when I can guarantee to anyone we never received any word from Bethesda and we go to extreme painful measures to keep it totally legal).
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Oh yeah I have seen that when the fallout 4 modding forums were still open on the bethesda forums, he would always go on about how it was so illegal and it would end up in a fight with whomever was there. Pretty funny when it did happen. He makes good mods such as his Oblivion village mods, but sometimes it seems he can be a real ass at times.
 
Risewild said:
Never liked Arthmoor, god/superiority complex not to mention talking about stuff he has no idea and still thinks he is right (for example he once went on and on about how TTW is illegal and it even received cease and desist from Bethesda when I can guarantee to anyone we never received any word from Bethesda and we go to extreme painful measures to keep it totally legal).
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The Nexus itself was actually contacted by Bethesda asking them not to have TTW on their site due to the way it requires people use content from one game in another, it's pretty much the only time they've ever been contacted by a publisher/dev for something like that, so clearly there is some issue there, even if Beth don't consider it to be serious enough to pursue in any real way beyond not allowing Nexus to host it.
 
Risewild said:
Never liked Arthmoor, god/superiority complex not to mention talking about stuff he has no idea and still thinks he is right (for example he once went on and on about how TTW is illegal and it even received cease and desist from Bethesda when I can guarantee to anyone we never received any word from Bethesda and we go to extreme painful measures to keep it totally legal).
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I was about to leave a post on the Unofficial Patch mod page the other day about how it does nothing beyond help sell an objectively broken game. Probably should at some point.

As for TTW, besides The Wanderer's Edition, that's the ONLY other way I would play Fallout 3 again.
 
AgentBJ09 said:
I was about to leave a post on the Unofficial Patch mod page the other day about how it does nothing beyond help sell an objectively broken game. Probably should at some point.

As for TTW, besides The Wanderer's Edition, that's the ONLY other way I would play Fallout 3 again.
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One of my friends was angry yesterday that just because he disagreed with Arthmoor in something in the past, now Arthmoor deletes all of his bug reports when he reports them to the Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch bug tracker :clap: very mature of Arthmoor...

So my friend is making his own Patch and I have the feeling he will named it something similar to Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch just as payback :lmao:.

Radiosity said:
The Nexus itself was actually contacted by Bethesda asking them not to have TTW on their site due to the way it requires people use content from one game in another, it's pretty much the only time they've ever been contacted by a publisher/dev for something like that, so clearly there is some issue there, even if Beth don't consider it to be serious enough to pursue in any real way beyond not allowing Nexus to host it.
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Actually if I recall correctly Bethesda asked Nexus to not have RFCW (Requiem For the Capital Wasteland) on their site. RFCW was the granddaddy of TTW and it actually wasn't totally legal since I think it distributed some assets back then (I wasn't involved on RFCW so I can't give more information because i never really asked about it in depth).
After that RFCW shattered, Chucksteel and JaxFirehart formed a new team (at first it was just both of them making TTW, I joined soon after when there was already a few more team members) and started TTW and made sure it would be legal, and to keep it legal TTW was rewritten from scratch 2 or 3 times already, it would be much easier just to distribute the TTW altered files so people would just download that and put it their data folder, but we take pride in knowing we keep ourselves inside the law :nod:.

Even though we make sure we do not breach Bethesda Terms and Conditions, we would still close up shop immediately if we got a Cease and Desist from Bethesda, we discussed what we should do if that ever happened and all of our team agreed to it without any second thoughts.

We talked to the Nexus people and we agreed between our two communities that we would tell people to not link directly our site on the nexus, we actually have good friends on Nexus, so if one day Bethesda comes by and asks or order us to stop doing it, they wont cause troubles for anyone else. Also we wanted to keep our community all in one place (our site) since that way it's easier to deal with a project of this magnitude and help users whenever they have any problems.

I am not aware of the Nexus ever being told by Bethesda to stop hosting TTW, because TTW was never hosted on the nexus.

Conclusion:
TTW does not really break the laws, we don't distribute any assets from the games, we have our own installer that needs to find the games assets already in the user's computer and alter them automatically, we even have an anti piracy system so that the installer won't work on pirated games (both Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas). But since we need Bethesda's products (Fallout 3 and all it's DLCs and Fallout New Vegas and all of it's DLCs except the Courier's Pack) to make it work we respect Bethesda's wishes in case of them telling us to stop doing it :nod:.

Sorry for the wall of text and I am not writing this in an angry way or annoyed or anything like that (it's hard to show context or emotions through writing), I am just trying to be informative ;-).
 
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kraag said:
Actually if I recall correctly Bethesda asked Nexus to not have RFCW (Requiem For the Capital Wasteland) on their site. RFCW was the granddaddy of TTW and it actually wasn't totally legal since I think it distributed some assets back then (I wasn't involved on RFCW so I can't give more information because i never really asked about it in depth).
After that RFCW shattered, Chucksteel and JaxFirehart formed a new team (at first it was just both of them making TTW, I joined soon after when there was already a few more team members) and started TTW and made sure it would be legal, and to keep it legal TTW was rewritten from scratch 2 or 3 times already, it would be much easier just to distribute the TTW altered files so people would just download that and put it their data folder, but we take pride in knowing we keep ourselves inside the law :nod:.
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Possibly? It was definitely referred to as TTW in the podcast I listened to (TotalBiscuit talking to a couple of guys, one of whom is the Nexus owner, about paid modding after Steam tried it). It's possible he just mentioned it as TTW since that's what it's known as now though, and actually meant the previous version.

edit: Okay, listened to the appropriate part of the podcast again and they don't mention it specifically by name, but it's obvious it's TTW they mean, so yeah, it could well have been before it became known as that. Either way, it's the licensing issues that are the problem because Obsidian made NV, not Bethesda, which is where the problem lies, not exactly in the content itself.
 
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Can you please link the podcast? I am curious and would like to listen to it :nod:.
I talked with some team members and they told me that back in the day Bethesda said: "We can't support that officially" about TTW, but never said it was illegal or for us to stop doing it :nod:.

I am sure if Bethesda thought it was illegal it would have already come by and tell us to shut it off, we are not hiding and we know for a fact Bethesda knows about us and where we live.

There was even threads in the Bethesda forum about TTW and never have any staff from the forums come by and said it was illegal and for people not to use it, only people saying it was illegal was forum users, Bethesda never officially said anything about it.

Also Fallout New Vegas was made by Obsidian but it is owned and published by Bethesda, the only way licensing would affect them was if Obsidian came by and declared TTW illegal for some reason (Obsidian is also well aware of TTW and never contacted us in any way or said it was illegal either).

EDIT: So now that I know the full reasons this is the special case with TTW:

We are not illegal but we are in a lawful "grey area" because of the affected games being related to multiple companies, and so if one says we are illegal the other probably has to follow it up or they would have to take the case to courts and that would be too much work and hassle just because of an independent modding team. Since it is linked to two companies none of them can officially say it is legal in case the other says it is illegal, but none can also officially say it is illegal in case the other says the opposite and it would lead to the courts and stuff.

So no company can officially support TTW but they can't also say it is illegal, unless they both officially say the same thing, which would probably involve more effort than it is worth it. After all TTW is still making people buy both FO3 and FNV so both companies are still getting some income from it.

EDIT 2: Arthmoor stopped deleting my friend's bug reports and it's being nice now, I might enjoy "bashing" people sometimes but I also like to point out when they do good :D.
 
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Risewild said:
Can you please link the podcast? I am curious and would like to listen to it :nod:.
I talked with some team members and they told me that back in the day Bethesda said: "We can't support that officially" about TTW, but never said it was illegal or for us to stop doing it :nod:.

I am sure if Bethesda thought it was illegal it would have already come by and tell us to shut it off, we are not hiding and we know for a fact Bethesda knows about us and where we live.
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Bethesda didn't go after the mod, they simply sent a polite email to Nexus' owner asking if he'd kindly not host that particular mod because it uses content from another game and that causes licensing issues (ie, because NV is actually Obsidian's licensed work, even if Bethesda owns the IP). Link to podcast/discussion is here:



Whole thing is well worth a listen as it's the SMIM author (Skyrim's mesh overhaul mod), Nexus owner, and Totalbiscuit discussing paid mods after that Steam debacle. The bit you want is right near the end in the last half hour or so. Skip to 1h39m for the bit in question, but as I said, it's worth listening to the whole thing, it's an interesting disucussion :) Incidentally, Robin (Nexus' owner) specifically states right there 'it's that mod that lets you play Fallout 3 in New Vegas' engine', so there's absolutely no ambiguity there.
 
Radiosity said:
Bethesda didn't go after the mod, they simply sent a polite email to Nexus' owner asking if he'd kindly not host that particular mod because it uses content from another game and that causes licensing issues (ie, because NV is actually Obsidian's licensed work, even if Bethesda owns the IP). Link to podcast/discussion is here:



Whole thing is well worth a listen as it's the SMIM author (Skyrim's mesh overhaul mod), Nexus owner, and Totalbiscuit discussing paid mods after that Steam debacle. The bit you want is right near the end in the last half hour or so. Skip to 1h39m for the bit in question, but as I said, it's worth listening to the whole thing, it's an interesting disucussion :) Incidentally, Robin (Nexus' owner) specifically states right there 'it's that mod that lets you play Fallout 3 in New Vegas' engine', so there's absolutely no ambiguity there.
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Thanks I will listen to it when I have the time :grin:.

EDIT: Oh and there is another mod that lets people play FO3 in the FNV engine and they actually distribute assets I think it is called F3FNV, they even had to hide their mod behind a registration only download and they say they are the only legal mod to play FO3 in FNV >_>.
 
R.Graves said:
Can it patch my wounds before Beth throws any more salt in there?
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Nope. They're gonna open that bitch up with a rusty razor blade, pour vinegar into it then rub huge crystals of sea salt into with a big-ass thumb. Then they're gonna make you pay them $60 for it and contractually force you to go on an internet forum rampage spruiking how awesome and cool it felt.
 
Risewild said:
Thanks I will listen to it when I have the time :grin:.

EDIT: Oh and there is another mod that lets people play FO3 in the FNV engine and they actually distribute assets I think it is called F3FNV, they even had to hide their mod behind a registration only download and they say they are the only legal mod to play FO3 in FNV >_>.
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If they're that worried about it that they had to hide... yeah, I can't imagine they're who Bethesda was talking about when Robin mentions that in the podcast, a project like that would be shut down really quickly if they were actually distributing the files and found out. Beth likes to stay hands off, but when it comes to their legal responsibility to protect their stuff, they'd take a mod down in a second if they felt a need.

Robin's comment on Bethesda's email is more of a 'this is kind of a legal grey area and we'd rather not have problems with this one particular mod', which to me feels more like he meant TTW, since you guys don't distribute the files yourselves. If you say that other project does and Bethesda actually knew about it, I can't imagine they'd last long as that's 100% actually illegal.

Interesting stuff either way :)
 
I agree with the god complex assumption, but I disagree that the unofficial patches are all his personal preference, that sounds exaggerated, they do fix a lot of game breaking bugs. Just check the entire changlelog for USKP for evidence. A lot of work has gone into it over the years and a lot of the popularity has absolutely gone to Arthmoors head at the same time.

In regards to the previous post, I believe the second to last comment was not a question, more of a questioning statement. Sounds to me like Arty don't wanna post his bug guidelines and is avoiding the 'question' like a politician.
 
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The patch won't make Fallout 4 not suck anyway. Everything about it is... just terrible.

Except CBBE Piper, yeah that's right Toddie-Boi - I dressed her up and did some really nasty things to her ;)
 
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