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Adv0cate_6
Guest
n/t
G
Guest
Guest
ROLE PLAYING GAME... Fallout is a RPG.
G
Guest
Guest
"Role Playing Game" which is a game where the game is dependant on the skills and stats of the character(s) the player controls and not that player's playing ability beyond that of the ability to make good decisions for the character(s).
Diablo I and II would not be considered real RPGs because it depends on the player's ability to hack and slash the opponents instead of simply telling the character to attack the enemy and let the character's ability take over.
-Xotor-
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Diablo I and II would not be considered real RPGs because it depends on the player's ability to hack and slash the opponents instead of simply telling the character to attack the enemy and let the character's ability take over.
-Xotor-
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To elucidate a bit more:
An RPG is a story, simply put.
You know those stories Gary made in the Greyhawk series?
Those were based off of campaigns of his in the early AD&D days.
But an RPG is more than that, when you place a free-thinking individual into the story, much less a game as well. Here's the most important aspects of an RPG, and why they are done the way they are. HOWEVER, this is not in order, but more along a list of what makes up an RPG/ideal CRPG. NPCs here are referring to non-party characters.
1. The story.
2. The character.
3. The setting (including NPCs)
4. Interaction between the character and the story.
5. Interaction between the character and other possible player characters.
6. Interaction between the NPCs and the story.
7. Interaction between the NPCs and the character.
8. Interaction between the NPCs and other NPCs.
9. Interaction of the setting and the story.
10. Interaction between the player and the setting.
11. Interaction between the NPCs and the setting.
12. Variety.
That's FAR from everything that makes up a good RPG. Let me further these points so it's easily understandable.
1: A story is not an excuse for the action, combat, or general repetitive combat. It should be first and foremost at the player's mind, and never set to the back burner.
2: The character NEVER relies on the reflexes and/or abilities of the player. It's the character the player is playing, thus you use the abilities of the character. True, as a player you might get used to the game and be better at playing it, yet as a player you still have to rely on the stats of the character.
3: Post-apocalyptic? Fantasy? Modern? What's the setting and theme?
4: What is the protagonist's (main character's) purpose in the story? They are there to just go through endless quests, or are they there to serve a mission of great importance? In a good RPG, what the player does is reflected back in the story - hence, nonlinearity. The character indeed does have an impact upon the story, but no good RPG would be without another great detail - how does the story affect the character?
5: Are they a group of bland characters, or do they each have a personality of their own? If each character is played by a person, then it's possible, however doubtful it is to find those good at RPing a character. If they are 'played' by the computer, then do they convey a good sense of personality? A good example would be Baldur's Gate 2, or Planescape: Torment.
6: This only points out what purpose the NPCs have on the story. Are they there to tell you the sword is behind the waterfall over and over, or will they actually match the setting and act in it? A good RPG will have the latter.
7: Is the player character idolized or shunned? It depends on his actions, and the NPC reactions to his actions. This is the dynamic part of an RPG that is indeed hard to accomplish in a CRPG.
8: How do the NPCs 'mesh' into an environment or a 'community'? Are they independent little robots, or are they apparently free-thinking individuals of their own? Do events in the story have them interact with one another, and bring the player in to interact with that aspect of an RPG?
9: This is a very big point. And where a lot of RPG games fail. It seems simple, yet so many fail. You have to 'capture' the feeling of a game through the setting to make the story believable and enjoyable; to give the RPG depth.
10: What does the player do to change the setting? This ties hand in hand with number 7, and creates an environment for the player to explore and mold into how they play.
11: What do the events that the NPCs do that tie into the setting? This ties into the story and everything else.
12: No two games played in a particular CRPG should be the same. Each time should be a near or totally unique experience. Nonlinearity is the epitome of this trait of RPG games.
All of this BIS has done, and has repeatedly shown themselves more than capable of achieving. It's not easy, but it's fun to do. Wasteland was a beginning, Fallout was a shining example. Planescape: Torment was a brilliant introduction to the CRPG genre, and it's held to be the best CRPG to date by many.
An RPG is a story, simply put.
You know those stories Gary made in the Greyhawk series?
Those were based off of campaigns of his in the early AD&D days.
But an RPG is more than that, when you place a free-thinking individual into the story, much less a game as well. Here's the most important aspects of an RPG, and why they are done the way they are. HOWEVER, this is not in order, but more along a list of what makes up an RPG/ideal CRPG. NPCs here are referring to non-party characters.
1. The story.
2. The character.
3. The setting (including NPCs)
4. Interaction between the character and the story.
5. Interaction between the character and other possible player characters.
6. Interaction between the NPCs and the story.
7. Interaction between the NPCs and the character.
8. Interaction between the NPCs and other NPCs.
9. Interaction of the setting and the story.
10. Interaction between the player and the setting.
11. Interaction between the NPCs and the setting.
12. Variety.
That's FAR from everything that makes up a good RPG. Let me further these points so it's easily understandable.
1: A story is not an excuse for the action, combat, or general repetitive combat. It should be first and foremost at the player's mind, and never set to the back burner.
2: The character NEVER relies on the reflexes and/or abilities of the player. It's the character the player is playing, thus you use the abilities of the character. True, as a player you might get used to the game and be better at playing it, yet as a player you still have to rely on the stats of the character.
3: Post-apocalyptic? Fantasy? Modern? What's the setting and theme?
4: What is the protagonist's (main character's) purpose in the story? They are there to just go through endless quests, or are they there to serve a mission of great importance? In a good RPG, what the player does is reflected back in the story - hence, nonlinearity. The character indeed does have an impact upon the story, but no good RPG would be without another great detail - how does the story affect the character?
5: Are they a group of bland characters, or do they each have a personality of their own? If each character is played by a person, then it's possible, however doubtful it is to find those good at RPing a character. If they are 'played' by the computer, then do they convey a good sense of personality? A good example would be Baldur's Gate 2, or Planescape: Torment.
6: This only points out what purpose the NPCs have on the story. Are they there to tell you the sword is behind the waterfall over and over, or will they actually match the setting and act in it? A good RPG will have the latter.
7: Is the player character idolized or shunned? It depends on his actions, and the NPC reactions to his actions. This is the dynamic part of an RPG that is indeed hard to accomplish in a CRPG.
8: How do the NPCs 'mesh' into an environment or a 'community'? Are they independent little robots, or are they apparently free-thinking individuals of their own? Do events in the story have them interact with one another, and bring the player in to interact with that aspect of an RPG?
9: This is a very big point. And where a lot of RPG games fail. It seems simple, yet so many fail. You have to 'capture' the feeling of a game through the setting to make the story believable and enjoyable; to give the RPG depth.
10: What does the player do to change the setting? This ties hand in hand with number 7, and creates an environment for the player to explore and mold into how they play.
11: What do the events that the NPCs do that tie into the setting? This ties into the story and everything else.
12: No two games played in a particular CRPG should be the same. Each time should be a near or totally unique experience. Nonlinearity is the epitome of this trait of RPG games.
All of this BIS has done, and has repeatedly shown themselves more than capable of achieving. It's not easy, but it's fun to do. Wasteland was a beginning, Fallout was a shining example. Planescape: Torment was a brilliant introduction to the CRPG genre, and it's held to be the best CRPG to date by many.
G
Guest
Guest
RE: To elucidate a bit more:
>Planescape: Torment was a brilliant
>introduction to the CRPG genre,
>and it's held to be
>the best CRPG to date
>by many.
I'm inclined to say that PS:T is *the* defining RPG for the fact that your character is completely developed by the game. The Nameless One (main character) is trying to find out who he is/was and what his relation to the world is. Unlike other RPGs, even Fallout, there is a grand scheme of things where the player is working through the world in order to discover what is wrong with it. In PS:T, you are discovering yourself, and your legacy throughout time. In the game, *you* are the story.
If you have not already bought and played it, buy it.
-Xotor-
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>Planescape: Torment was a brilliant
>introduction to the CRPG genre,
>and it's held to be
>the best CRPG to date
>by many.
I'm inclined to say that PS:T is *the* defining RPG for the fact that your character is completely developed by the game. The Nameless One (main character) is trying to find out who he is/was and what his relation to the world is. Unlike other RPGs, even Fallout, there is a grand scheme of things where the player is working through the world in order to discover what is wrong with it. In PS:T, you are discovering yourself, and your legacy throughout time. In the game, *you* are the story.
If you have not already bought and played it, buy it.
-Xotor-
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A
Adv0cate_6
Guest
0(^-^)0
n/t
n/t
A
Adv0cate_6
Guest
Thank you
I really should get P:T. I've played Baldur's Gate, and the constant fighting just sucked for me. Was a RPG/RTS, not an RPG.
I really should get P:T. I've played Baldur's Gate, and the constant fighting just sucked for me. Was a RPG/RTS, not an RPG.
A
Adv0cate_6
Guest
Diablo II wouldn't
But man you should play the game. It is a good RPG/action hybrid.
As for your idea of Diablo II as a player's ability to have a click fest, I wouldn't think so. Diablo I yes, but Diablo II has more RPG elements, and compared to the original, has changed GREATLY. I'm not saying that the game itself is a real RPG though, btw.
Points:
1. You can hold the button in Diablo II to launch constant attacks, though if you played the game, you learn that in some classes you only do so, and that's early in the game mostly.
2. Skills(spells and combat moves) are not constantly initiated.
e.g. A barbarians whirlwind has him spin around in 5-15 yards (I think) while waving his weapons out. Kinda like a super hack'n'slash.
The skills also play a great role in the game. They are easily described as Fallout perks.
Unlike Diablo, where the game was about equipment and spells, All Diablo II is more centered upon the character's many skills .
No, it's not a real RPG, but the RPG/Action hybrid does have you rely on ,90% of the time, the character's skills rather than his twitchy mouse finger.
But man you should play the game. It is a good RPG/action hybrid.
As for your idea of Diablo II as a player's ability to have a click fest, I wouldn't think so. Diablo I yes, but Diablo II has more RPG elements, and compared to the original, has changed GREATLY. I'm not saying that the game itself is a real RPG though, btw.
Points:
1. You can hold the button in Diablo II to launch constant attacks, though if you played the game, you learn that in some classes you only do so, and that's early in the game mostly.
2. Skills(spells and combat moves) are not constantly initiated.
e.g. A barbarians whirlwind has him spin around in 5-15 yards (I think) while waving his weapons out. Kinda like a super hack'n'slash.
The skills also play a great role in the game. They are easily described as Fallout perks.
Unlike Diablo, where the game was about equipment and spells, All Diablo II is more centered upon the character's many skills .
No, it's not a real RPG, but the RPG/Action hybrid does have you rely on ,90% of the time, the character's skills rather than his twitchy mouse finger.
G
Guest
Guest
RE: Diablo II wouldn't
"Diablo II has more RPG elements"
Dialbo II is no more of an RPG than the first game. Your character still has no real interaction with other characters and nothing you do affects the story at all.
"1. You can hold the button in Diablo II to launch constant attacks, though if you played the game, you learn that in some classes you only do so, and that's early in the game mostly."
That doesn't make it a RPG, nor is that even a "RPG element".
"2. Skills(spells and combat moves) are not constantly initiated."
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here, but from your example it looks like you consider having to activate skills manually a RPG element, which is simply not the case.
A game is not an RPG because of skills or interface. If you want an example of a what makes a game a RPG, then look at some of the definitions already laid out, and I mean truly read them, because what you just described certainly does not make a RPG.
"Diablo II has more RPG elements"
Dialbo II is no more of an RPG than the first game. Your character still has no real interaction with other characters and nothing you do affects the story at all.
"1. You can hold the button in Diablo II to launch constant attacks, though if you played the game, you learn that in some classes you only do so, and that's early in the game mostly."
That doesn't make it a RPG, nor is that even a "RPG element".
"2. Skills(spells and combat moves) are not constantly initiated."
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here, but from your example it looks like you consider having to activate skills manually a RPG element, which is simply not the case.
A game is not an RPG because of skills or interface. If you want an example of a what makes a game a RPG, then look at some of the definitions already laid out, and I mean truly read them, because what you just described certainly does not make a RPG.
A
Adv0cate_6
Guest
My mistake
I was in NO WAY trying to say Diablo II was an RPG. I was pointing out that the game itself had added certain different RPG elements, the skill point system, to change the game, and make it rely more on the "character's abilities" than on the constant hacking and slashing. In Diablo I, it was basically constant clicking on every monster. I played it, and beated it, and the way you attacked was very repetitive. In Diablo II however, I stated otherwise.
Maybe the skill point system wouldn't be considered an RPG element, but I was arguing to the fact of Xotor's last words in his statement:
Diablo... II... depends on the player's ability to hack and slash the opponents instead of simply telling the character to attack the enemy and let the character's ability take over.
I was in NO WAY trying to say Diablo II was an RPG. I was pointing out that the game itself had added certain different RPG elements, the skill point system, to change the game, and make it rely more on the "character's abilities" than on the constant hacking and slashing. In Diablo I, it was basically constant clicking on every monster. I played it, and beated it, and the way you attacked was very repetitive. In Diablo II however, I stated otherwise.
Maybe the skill point system wouldn't be considered an RPG element, but I was arguing to the fact of Xotor's last words in his statement:
Diablo... II... depends on the player's ability to hack and slash the opponents instead of simply telling the character to attack the enemy and let the character's ability take over.
G
Guest
Guest
Defining what an RPG
is, is getting more confusing with every game released. At the Gamefaqs board, there is a person that thinks Fallout is a strategy game.
is, is getting more confusing with every game released. At the Gamefaqs board, there is a person that thinks Fallout is a strategy game.
A
Adv0cate_6
Guest
RE: Defining what an RPG
Those damn suits, they can just manipulate everything. Like call an RPG an RTS(*cough*Baldur's Gate*cough*)
Those damn suits, they can just manipulate everything. Like call an RPG an RTS(*cough*Baldur's Gate*cough*)