Why I believe the Legion was terribly executed as a faction.

[ElloinmorninJ]

Let’s get this straight: On paper, the Legion sound neat. They’re consistent, well-written, and their ideology (at least in the broad sense) makes sense. But, in my opinion, their execution in game could’ve been done MUCHHH better.

1) They made the Legion to obviously evil. Their use of slavery already pushes them to an extremely questionable area, even though you can justify it as a “needed greater good” of the post-apocalyptic times, maybe. But their treatment of women pushes them directly into “No sane, moral person would support this group”. They let women be treated like objects, and even condone and allow rape amongst their ranks.

2) They forgot to add a ‘productive’ side of the Legion. Due to us only seeing slaves and military conquerors of the Legion in-game, they just come off as a bunch of raiders. They should’ve put in ay least one unenslaved, civilized town in the Legion. And make it obvious that these are numerous.

3) Make the Legion not a totally doomed society. Make it so that Caesar actually has a successor who could realistically lead the Legion into the future successfully, without it just withering after he inevitably dies.

 

[Mr Fish]

Legion was never made to last according to Caesar himself.

 

[Deleted member 98605]

Counterpoint: 1) Just like the real Roman Legions did, even to other Romans, by the time of the late principate/early directorate. Probably like the Tribes he took over did, too. Rape and slavery is, sadly, the human norm, not the exception. Roman soldiers loved their rape and their slaves throughout the Republic, and even by the time of the later empire as slavery sort of morphs into Serfdom with the Coloni and Nobilii and proto-Manoralism with the Villas I doubt the numerous towns and settlements burnt over three hundred years of civil conflict didn't get the Roman flesh sword every damn time they got a town back from a rebel pretender or some German tribe.

2) Yes, this is the main thing; the lack of a Legion settlement IMO, but even then I doubt the Legion would be much more popular. One, according to the Guide, Legion Women are either slaves or Vestals (who are still Caesar's technical slaves) who teach kids the basics. Legion controlled Wastelander towns might have more leeway but due to the proximity to the front might still be giving 'Auxilia' units and their women would be under constant Legion threat compared, to say, some nice village out by Two-Sun or Albuquerque, so again, I doubt this would paint the Legion in a better light, especially as:

3) Perhaps? I always got the implication that Caesar just didn't care. Rome was for HIS benefit first and foremost - to satisfy HIS craving, HIS idea that one man could change the new world, his thesis. Everything else is secondary. He doesn't have a clear spiritual successor (legally it's Lanius but the two are not on the same level, obviously) because he doesn't care; once he's dead he's not going to be able to look back, even with his brain damage. He knows he can gamble for a few more years, e.g by hiring some prospector shmuck such as yourself to fix a cheat-code level robot to give him a few more years, but he doesn't care as long as, in the end, he can call Vegas 'HIS Rome' and send nice legionnaires off to fight some enemy somewhere else.

I never got the impression, unlike with Lanius, that he wanted to outright destroy the NCR, he just found a good city he can feel proud of looking down from and the NCR - he was just calling it out as he saw it. Unlike Lanius who wants to burn the whole world.


Remember what the Legion is. It's Caesar's shaping of the world because he had a lightbulb moment when he was Shallow out east teaching tribals to do shit. They're basically toys to be used by him and him alone as he's a Romeaboo. Sure it's sprinkled with his views of the world as well: women weak, men strong, technology should be a tool first and a human must always be in control, but beyond that there's little real substance. Even his claims that he might transform the legion a bit after they have a proper 'Rome' (what, Two-Sun and Phoenix weren't good enough?) rings hollow as all he'll be doing is turning everything to a Caesar's Palace ripoff.