Working on a combat overhaul project (FO2)

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Cyrus, Sep 19, 2020.

  1. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    Double-posting because big posts bad, sorry.

    That would be cool. Some stuff is weird in progression.

    - Energy Weapons are weird. You can get Laser Rifles as soon as Redding if you go on caravans and get Claim Jumpers. Claim Jumpers normally carry the M60 but in caravan encounters, for some reason they bring their A-game and carry laser rifles. Also for some reason they seem to always run up to your face before firing, or so I remember. Does their skill with energy weapons suck?

    Oh yeah, normally you first get the Laser Pistol in New Reno. But laser resistances are wack so its immensely useless. You can easily upgrade to the Magneto-Laser Pistol, still useless. Its a bit frustrating because Laser Pistols in New Reno are hyped as super weapons which make everyone fear the Salvatores and their lightbringers.

    From there you can also get the Plasma Pistol from the Toxic Caves, which I don't mind.

    Sierra Army Depot makes all energy weapons found up to this point pointless, because you can easily score a Plasma Rifle. And from there, a Turbo Plasma Rifle from Algenon. The Turbo Plasma is way stronger than anything in the mid-game (except maybe the Bozar) and can be used all the way to the end-game - hell, my first game I finished with a Bozar/Turbo Plasma Combo.

    Oh yeah, nobody gives a fuck to the Gatling Laser because, again, lasers are so useless.

    (and honestly, would love to see lower-level energy weapons from start. Fallout of Nevada had some)

    (btw Algenon is damn cheesy)

    - The FN-FAL is so pathetic in general. 7,62mm x 51 NATO is a powerful round, but the game despicts it as a pretty run of the mill round. The FN-FAL is a spray and pray burst rifle, but in real life, people generally fire in single fire, double tap or maybe three-round bursts. The weird thing is that its such a rare round. Makes me wonder if it wans't supposed to be far stronger originally.
     
  2. Cyrus

    Cyrus It Wandered In From the Wastes

    152
    Nov 5, 2015
    heh, Literally every point you make I am in agreement with and working on. There is a problem of time though, doing all of it takes lots of time and I have limited time like anybody else.

    This is precisely what I am doing. Except I'm going one step further and decoupling the penetration into DT and DR so you have separate control over both.

    yes.

    Yes, I do plan to change them however there is a problem of agreement. people might not like other people's idea of whats good and might reject it. So one ha to tread minimalisticly.


    Yes I am reworking it.
     
  3. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    Indeed! Althrough your systematic approach does make it more mod-friendly and easy to alter.

    Yay! Thought it was just me!


    Interesting!

    But say - I thought the whole point of DT was that you could't penetrate through it no matter what? Then again, there was Weapon Penetrate.

    Oh hey, do you think changing reload AP use at the individual weapon level is possible? Almost every weapon in the game uses 2 AP to reload, with two pretty significant exceptions in the form of the Magnum (Speed Loader) and the Solar Scorcher. Are they all just set at 2 with two exceptions or are reloads hard-coded with two weird exceptions through something like Weapon Perks?
     
  4. Cyrus

    Cyrus It Wandered In From the Wastes

    152
    Nov 5, 2015
    @KingArthur, Thanks for the good word mate.



    @Slaughter Manslaught,
    That's good feedback and I appreciate it. So thanks. I like hearing people's experiences and perspective. You have more feedback like that don't hold back. Specially when it comes to badly placed encounters. I intend to do a fix for all the bad encounters I can find and I don't know them all that well.

    That's not true. Although the game has left no direct way of affecting DT, DT is penetrated all the time in the game. Its way easily penetrated while DR is very hard to get through unless you have DR reducing bullets. All other forms of attack can't touch DR.
    DT however is easily penetrated by ammo damage mod of 2/1, by any critical hit, and by weapon_penetrate perk which a lot of things have. the way the original formula is written DT is rather easily reduced. Although its done rather poorly and haphazardly without tacticality. And lastly as I have explained earlier, the game simply needs a DT modifier.

    They are hard-coded, including those 2 exceptions. Its a general rule, applies to all guns, except those 2 cases. I didn't mention this earlier, but that's another thing I'm changing. Higher AP costs for reload and inventory. Imagine reloading your gun taking half as long as firing a single bullet. My ass. Another of those unrealisms that irks me. Definitely on my "game Bullsh*t List" to get rid of.

    Custom reload costs for individual weapons is indeed possible. Funny, the idea hadn't occurred to me. Interesting thought. Although I wonder if it would be that meaningful or interesting (tactical) to add. Well if there is genuine interest in it I don't see why not to consider it. But again I'm not sure how it would make an interesting impact on gameplay. Would love to see a case demonstration.

    Again thanks for sharing your insights.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  5. Glovz

    Glovz Vault Dweller
    Modder

    737
    Sep 16, 2005
    @Cyrus
    I have retired from modding but still creep the forum every now and again - I like some of your ideas - but what most people over look when they decide to mod the damage formula and then think to mod the ammo and weapons, is the armor. The armor has as much to do with the results you see from the damage formula as the ammo and weapons do.

    Modding the armor is also more difficult than modding the damage formula and/or weapons and ammo, as the armor is stamped to the critters, so modding the armor alone will NOT change the "armor" on the critters within the game.

    When I was modding I could quickly see how the formula and the ammo had issues with what the developers had intended and I worked directly with NovaRain to fix it. My mod is as much NovaRain's as it is mine and it is a fix. However, aside from the issues we fixed, there is some imbalance in how the armor scales, how it is applied to critters within the game, and in my opinion is more of the cause of player complaints around the amount of damage done by some weapons/ammo vs certain critters.

    I guess what I'm saying is be sure you consider the whole picture and if you can put together a logical improvement to the game (not just change for the sake of change), you are sure to get a lot of support and help along the way.

    Good luck, I'll be watching from the wastelands.
     
  6. Cyrus

    Cyrus It Wandered In From the Wastes

    152
    Nov 5, 2015
    Oh my. Mr Glovz himself! You humble me with your presence!

    Hey man really great to see you. Thanks for dropping by and saying a few words. Nice to have you.

    First off my respects and a salute.

    I just wanna say I wish the tools that are available to us now were available to you then, cause you could have done this without the limitations of exe editing and would have done a super job, and I wouldn't have had to do this @#$* now!


    Secondly, 100% agreed on your points. Matter of fact I even mentioned the same thing earlier in this thread:
    Yes indeed, armor settings area a major problem and fixing it a total pain in the @#$. Truth is to truly fix the issue, you essential have to redo the whole damn game and its a monumental task, and its like... who can justify spending the time to fix all of it, and for who.


    Anyway. Please do visit more often. You are a welcome sight. I could use your advice here and there too.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  7. bratmanntoffel

    bratmanntoffel First time out of the vault

    23
    Nov 17, 2015
    Hey @Slaughter Manslaught,
    my CANGED_PERKS_AND_TRAITS.rar is basically a mod that attempts to deal exactly with that point. Inside you'll find a complete small mod which tries to put all perks and traits I could manage to deal with into better use and balance.
    In addition it adds a few new ones to utilize under-used stats or support some side builds.
    Enjoy!
    https://www.nma-fallout.com/attachments/pmod_changed_perks_and_traits-rar.16860/
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  8. Zorchar

    Zorchar Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    323
    Jun 18, 2018
    Can u provide a link?
     
  9. Cyrus

    Cyrus It Wandered In From the Wastes

    152
    Nov 5, 2015
  10. Cyrus

    Cyrus It Wandered In From the Wastes

    152
    Nov 5, 2015
    An Update on my progress:

    • Rewrite the whole damage formula [In progress]
    • Add a DT modifier as a dedicated modifier for ammo [DONE]
    • Add custom damage type for ammo [DONE]
    • add custom penetration for weapons [DONE]
    • Custom critical chance for weapons
    • Custom tohit chance for weapons [In progress]
    • AC modifier for weapons [Scrapped]
    • Custom knockback for weapons
    • Weapon Primary and Secondary modes can have different stats [DONE]
    • Option for Bonus Ranged Damage to be +15% [DONE]
    • Option for Bonus HtH Damage to be be +15% [DONE]
    • Option for finesse to to be better
    • Address the problem of Sniper perk and bursts all bullets critical all penetrating
    • change armor bypass mechanic [In progress]
    • A general quick fix for laser resistances.

    Extra features I've decided to also add:

    • Skill based Unarmed damage
    • Skill based Throwing damage