Star Wars: Rogue One

CT Phipps

Carbon Dated and Proud
So, anyone going to see this?

I'm seeing it in about an hour.

Looking forward to what a "war movie" will look like in the SW universe.
 
Hm. The movie seems good, full of good ideas -I'm really curious about the concept of the force monks, people religiously following the force, but who aren't jedis, apparently- but on the other hand, I'm afraid I'll be disappointed like I was for the force awakens.

Don't get me wrong, I "liked" the force awakens, but I liked it for its redeeming qualities (Daisy Ridley's interpretation, the first chapter's cinematography, the lightsaber in the snow, the Tie fighter hijack scene etc) but not as a whole. From the moment the heroes go to Maz Kanata's cantina, the movie immediately started to accumulate errors upon errors, in my mind.

I'll gladly read your review of Rogue One, so that I can decide if it's worth seeing it on theater or not.
Oh, and if they somehow managed to put Grand Moff Tarkin somewhere in the movie (either with CGI or with a younger actor, like they did in episode III), then it's sold, I'll go see it. Peter Cushing was a beast, and the animated series actually managed to render his character pretty well, so...
 
If you're as confused as I am, this might help. Haven't read those comics though. Did read a SW book long time ago.
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But,

Rogue-One-Star-Wars-timeline.jpg
 
Writing my review now.

The short version?

8/10

It's a great technically proficient wonderful work of characterization.

However, the director and writer clearly are of the school of people who assume Star Wars should be SERIOUS and DARK.

The movie would be unwatchable without Alan Tudyk's K2-SO, Donnie Yen's natural charisma, and Felicity Jones' adorability.

Also, the Rebel Alliance is a bunch of assholes.
 


So, what did I think of Rogue One? Well, it was pretty good. This is one of those movies I suspect I'm going to feel like a traitor to my class (Star Wars nerds) and religion (I'm a theistic Christian Jedi) for having mixed feelings on. It was really-really good in many places but also didn't fill me with the kind of overwhelming joy I got from the other installments of the series.

Indeed, if I had to rank the movies, I'd say this is probably the single most technically proficient of the films but probably the one I will re-watch least. I also believe this will be the single most loved of the movies for some after A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. For me, it's just above Revenge of the Sith. Not because of the acting, the special effects, the likability of the characters, or the plot--all of that is great. Instead, my issues with Rogue One are entirely about tone and presentation. Also, the fact the movie is kind of creepy in its attempt to literally resurrect the dead on screen.

More on that later.



The actors have great chemistry.

The movie is an prequel (GASP!) or intrequal between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. Indeed, it's really a kind of weird prologue to A New Hope as it's no spoiler to say the movie literally ends like minutes before the events of the first Star Wars movie. There's a few Prequel tie-ins like the inclusion of Jimmy Smits' Bail Organa, Coruscant, and Mustafar but no sign of the elements people disliked about them.

Basically, Jyn Erso (Felicity Jones) is the daughter of Galen Erso (Mads Mikkelsen), the designer of the Death Star. In the place of Bevel Lemisk from the Expanded Universe, Galen Erso is an unwilling accomplice to the Empire's misdeeds and has sabotaged our favorite moon-sized space station with the whole thermal exhaust port thing.

Galen's put a message with an Imperial pilot named Bodhi (Riz Ahmed) who has been captured by a bunch of anti-Imperial terrorists led by Saw Gerrera (Forest Whitaker). I use the term anti-Imperial terrorists because they've been kicked out of the Alliance for being too extreme, employ torture, and are made to visually resemble Middle Eastern insurgents in tactics as well as appearance. Jyn gets rescued from an Imperial labor camp by Cassian Andor (Diego Luna) and his droid K-2SO (Alan Tudyk) so she can make an introduction with Saw as he was an old friend of Galen's.



I don't care what they say. I say he has the Force.

Along the way they pick up a Force-wielding monk named Chirrut (Donnie Yen) and his atheist companion Baze (Jiang Wen). A lot of things happen which result in it becoming desperately necessary for our heroes to steal the Death Star plans from an Imperial library world. It's a fairly complicated plot but it actually works because the central idea is strong and everything stems from the heroes' failures. For example, Galen's message flat out says what the Death Star's weakness is from the beginning so they probably didn't actually need the plans. Unfortunately, the heroes' lose it and their subsequent attempts to get the weakness through other methods end up as colossal screw-ups.

Which actually brings me to one of my first problems with the movie, in that the Rebel Alliance is a bunch of (to use a Star Wars idiom) karks. We see its members murder semi-innocent people, extort people into their service, plot assassinations, plan surrender to the Empire, and that's just the mainstream Alliance. 9/11 certainly changed American perception of guerilla warfare and there's always been jokes about the Rebel Alliance being a bunch of terrorists but it's kind of painful to watch their handling here. The Empire is much-much worse, what with numerous atrocities against innocent people, but the general tone brought me out of the movie.



More Admiral Piett than Grand Moff Tarkin.

Next, the kinda-sorta main villain of Director Krennic (Ben Mendelsohn) was a big disappointment as I'm stunned to realize the movie really doesn't need him. I was hoping for a new Grand Moff Tarkin character but he strikes me as more the fun-hating college dean. With Grand Moff Tarkin actually in the movie and Darth Vader, he's really just a bungling Imperial administrator who kicks over the occasional ant-hill without a trace of real menace. I really wish they'd deleted Tarkin completely and split the story between him and Vader.

Speaking of which, I find the fact they CGIed Peter Cushing's face onto another actor in order to resurrect Grand Moff Tarkin for this movie to be positively ghoulish. I think its disrespectful to the actor and something which should be avoided. The actual effect is almost but not quite there and if Peter Cushing were still alive to approve it, it probably wouldn't bother me as much but I had the same problem when they inserted Sir Lawrence Olivier into Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. Let the dead rest in peace.

Beyond these complaints, the movie is staggeringly beautiful with the kind of battle scenes which we only saw the barest hints of on Hoth and over Endor. There's an amazing amount of action in the films with some of the most intense fighting, no, the most intense fighting in all of the eight films. The Rebel Alliance engages the Empire head on and they get their asses truly handed to them but that's not a bad thing as they're willing to sacrifice their lives to inflict as much damage on the Imperials as possible. There's also a single great "Vader as Jason Voorhees" moment which has to be seen to be believed.



The Peace Moon is almost completed.

The characters are extraordinarily likable throughout with Jyn, K2-SO, and Chirrut as the stand-out characters. I would have easily watched multiple sequels with them tooling around the galaxy to fight the Dark Side. Cassian had an interesting character arc which fit into my view of a man realizing he's NOT in a universe where hard men make hard choices but a more idealistic Star Wars one. I also loved Saw Gerrera as it's very clear he threw everything at the Empire and then some, only to realize it wasn't remotely enough.

The music of the film was unfortunately also a bit weak. I can't recall any real motifs which stood out for me and they didn't even reuse any of the classic movie themes in memorable ways. The music of the film is serviceable but I think it would have benefited from John Williams doing a couple of signature songs for it and making use of classic pieces like the original Star Wars theme.

Still, when the credits finally rolled, I had mixed feelings about the film. The film didn't feel like Star Wars where the power of idealism and hope triumphed over cruelty as well as cynicism. There are a lot of sacrifices made in the movie and while that's a valuable lesson in real life, because change does require great sacrifice, it's perhaps a bit too much. I felt numb instead of elated and I don't think that's the direction Star Wars should go. I compare the feeling at the end of the movie to where Jaina killed Jacen Solo at the end of the Fate of the Jedi series. Yeah, the Sith Lord is dead but it's at a horrific cost which doesn't remotely feel worth it. It was a good movie but I wish they'd done several things differently to get that Star Wars feel.

And why was there no opening crawl or Star Wars theme? BAD! BAD MOVIE!

8/10
 
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Damn, I loved the movie. And frankly, I liked it even more because it distanced itself from Star Wars (New Hope) and more into the 'Empire Strikes Back' territory. Dark, serious, fucking fantastic. I'd happily consider it the best Star Wars movie. The Rebel Alliance are more morally grey, the Empire more evil and the characters more interesting. Any misgivings about it being SJW propaganda, or the cast being made just to be diverse should be put to rest. It's good, really good.

By the way, the Guardians of the Whills are a very old Star Wars concept from the first drafts and have a lot of heritage behind them. Nice to see them return like that.
I'd give the movie a 10/10. I might make a proper review, but I was never good at those things and I'd rather just leave it to the people watching the movie to form their own opinion. Suffice to say, it's one of my most favorite movies.

Gushing shill rant over.
 
That's why I didn't like it. Who gives a shit about the Rebellion if they're no better than the Empire?
 
That's why I didn't like it. Who gives a shit about the Rebellion if they're no better than the Empire?
Who gives a shit about the Rebellion if they're unreasonably perfect? I have yet to find a person who would love to be judged by a saint of honesty and purity.

I loved how serious it was, and how not everything ends well. Good foil to the medal award ceremony in New Hope.
 
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Alright, thanks a lot for your thoughts on Rogue One. I think I'll give it a try then, I loved the Empire Strikes Back and I'm curious to see a new Star Wars movie of that tone.

I've yet to see the movie, but I have to say what would be interesting about a group that couldn't do any wrong and are perfect saints? I enjoy the original trilogy but you have to admit the rebels are too good.
Well, the thing that always bothered me about the original rebellion is that they are... er, small. From what we see and hear, they only managed to gather a very, very small support. I mean, about a hundred ships for the last battle against the Empire? We're talking about an intergalactical rebellion, here. So, alright they are the good guys and all, but it's almost worrying that they don't have more support from alien races. Especially when you see that all aliens of Tattoine seem to live pretty well with the Imperial rule. That's a problem. You never feel like the Empire is a crushing force that needs to be resisted to, in the original trilogy. It's more presented like a figure of authority, maybe a pain in the ass because of the regulations and paper controls but not an actual threat. Sure, we hear that they shut down the senate and that's supposed to be bad, but after seeing the new trilogy, we also see that the said senate is incompetent, has let the galaxy burn in civil war and is plagued by corruption. Oh, and they gladly gave power to a sith who may have presented himself as darth syphilis.

The Force Awakens suffers from a problem of the same kind, it's that the resistance doesn't make much sense. Is it the Republic's unofficial army? Then why are they still equipped like during the rebellion times, and where is the actual republican army? Why are they unofficial, they are the ones who saved the republic only a few decades ago. What are they "resisting" against, considering that the first order was created after them, and isn't an empire anymore but basically an army on the run? The context is weird, because logically, the resistance should be the crushing military power by then, and not a pack of runaway teens fighting with guerilla tactics.
I'm glad if Rogue One is clearer on the subject.
 
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I've yet to see the movie, but I have to say what would be interesting about a group that couldn't do any wrong and are perfect saints? I enjoy the original trilogy but you have to admit the rebels are too good.

I do?

Because they're supposed to be heroes and inspirations. Those who do not rise above their demons are not always more interesting than those who do. Making them grayer diminishes the sense of joy of the accomplishment. This is supposed to be a series which makes you feel good and giddy and happy.

YMMV of course.
 
I do?

Because they're supposed to be heroes and inspirations. Those who do not rise above their demons are not always more interesting than those who do. Making them grayer diminishes the sense of joy of the accomplishment. This is supposed to be a series which makes you feel good and giddy and happy.

YMMV of course.
Except in this case they are, especially because the Alliance is commonly seen as the purest of pure, and broke their relation with Saw for being too militaristic, yet happily employ assassination and sabotage.
 
I admit, I kind of wish we'd seen Saw blow up a building of collaborators or something a bit more extreme to show him as the crazy Alliance.
 
I admit, I kind of wish we'd seen Saw blow up a building of collaborators or something a bit more extreme to show him as the crazy Alliance.
Wants to see a 'good' guy kill tons of civilians for being collaborators=dislikes the movie for being too dark.

You can't have your cake and eat it.
 
I do?

Because they're supposed to be heroes and inspirations. Those who do not rise above their demons are not always more interesting than those who do. Making them grayer diminishes the sense of joy of the accomplishment. This is supposed to be a series which makes you feel good and giddy and happy.

YMMV of course.

The original trilogy had started off as a space opera, so it's understandable that the rebels were shown as pure good and the Empire as evil. But if this is a darker take on the SW universe, grey is more suitable no?
 
Wants to see a 'good' guy kill tons of civilians for being collaborators=dislikes the movie for being too dark.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

Actually, I'd like to see the Rebel's dark side moved to Saw. So he's the bad guy, not the Alliance. I also think he was killed too early.

I'd have preferred a redemption arc than a justification one.

The original trilogy had started off as a space opera, so it's understandable that the rebels were shown as pure good and the Empire as evil. But if this is a darker take on the SW universe, grey is more suitable no?

Eh, I am thinking about the Old Expanded Universe which got bogged down in Gray and Gray morality, Imperial apologetia, snake fighting salad people, and the Solo kids being evil.

I'm leery of any attempt to darken or gray up STAR WARS.
 
Actually, I'd like to see the Rebel's dark side moved to Saw. So he's the bad guy, not the Alliance. I also think he was killed too early.

I'd have preferred a redemption arc than a justification one.
Ehhh.... that could work, but that makes the Alliance look even worse as an insufferable morally pure group. Turning their nose at the evils of others to fight pure and holy. Frankly, that makes me dislike the Alliance even more and turn strongly to the Empire. To be honest, I'm Imperial all the way. They're one of the better totalitarian nations.

A side movie I'd love to see follows the viewpoint of Imperial defectors in an Imperial fleet after the destruction of the second Death Star and the Emperor. It would show the reaction of the Empire's navy and army, perhaps resulting in an epic battle between Imperial fleets to show how disunited the Empire has become.
 
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