Life pre-war

[cratchety ol joe]

This thread is also a little dig at the FO4 intro which I personally believe to be wildly inaccurate to how I perceive the pre-war fallout time divergent universe. I wasn't sure if this should be posted into the FO4 sub-forum, but I consider it to have a wider 'general' fallout discussion point, please bear with me

I've brought this up so I can finally get some peace of mind, as it's been driving me crazy just how 40's/50's styled Bethesda has made the game.

Before I get going, I want to try and establish a few things I think are key.

1. Origin lore (cannon)

Things that are written into the game (items, concepts or otherwise) that set precedent to their being. Considered to be entirely internally consistent to the game world.

2. Loose cannon

Ideas contained within the same general concept of the world of Fallout but are tenuous at best or require some stretch of internal consistency to be considered as 'accurate to lore'.

3. Ret-con lore

Additional or contradictory 'things' that are (by current standards) to be considered as lore of the game world but are inconsistent with items of already established origin lore. For the purpose of this thread I will state I really hate ret-con and as such unless there is exceptional reason to accept it I will always define that origin lore trumps ret-con.


So with this in mind-

I propose that the into of FO4 (and indeed some of the FO3 pre-war concepts) are entirely wrong. Presenting the world as a 50's idyllic America, complete with cooky bubble-top cars and swaths of 'retro' detailing.

I would propose that the pre-war Fallout would be more like the early 80's but with a 50's flavour, much like fashion trend resurge from time to time.
I would further press that the world at large has access to technology and social identity similar to what we see in today's "real" world.

There are several concepts I want to drag up which I think reinforce my near-cyberpunk, 50's influenced alternate future.

Important details (lore)

1. We know that hand held two way radio's exist (they are a major plot device of FO1 & 2)
   • this simple fact demands that microprocessors have been in existence for at least 30 years! from the point at which microprocessors were developed this would place the time into the 80's (more on microprocessors later)
2. We know that robotic micro-surgery exists in FO1 & FO2.
   • this demands that medical research as well as complex robotics exist to a level only achieved very recently in our own history.
3. The oft discussed point of point of divergence arises, and one key element I see from lore is that 5.56 ammo exists.
   • if weapons development can at least be 'guessed' to mimic the "real" world, this came about as part of a weapons development program introduced because of the war in Vietnam, so we can at least have an educated guess that this war has occurred and that puts time into the mid 70's
4. There are other weapons and technology which demand that the timeline have reached at least into the 80's with technology that exists to prove development must have continued well into the year 2000.

Now a small tangent; FO1 was developed during the 80's and, as such it is reasonable that the development team had little to no way of accurately predicting the world as we have it now.

Some real-world concepts I must address:

Social changes in attitude and fashion
I find it implausible that dress and music fashion's have not altered in 110 years. (1950 - 2070) even in 'real-world' we have seen dramatic and continued wide-spread changes.

1940' - 50's Swing era
50's - 60's Rock era
60's - 70's bohemian
70's - 80's glam / punk
80's - 90's electro & new-age
90's - 00's the rise of 'emo' and scene

There are others but the point being that every decade has seen dramatic alterations in how the world at large lives it's social life. As such the entirely 40's/50's-esq opening of FO4 defies the norm of altering fashion. I would also like to argue against the detail that music, music never changes - except that it bloody well does! I despise that FO4 thrives on the swing-band of the 40's despite the fact there is probably a far greater selection of music available in the year 2077 than even I can imagine.

caveat
I would concede that as part of a social reform there 'could be' a resurgence of 50's revival for fashion etc, however I would see this as an influence of the modern culture and not a defined element of itself.

As such, fashion would have a 40's / 50's influence and the music might be similar to 'electro swing' (which was a literal real-world resurgence of 40's swing music but with modern theme)

This I would propose makes an internally consistent alternate world and to me (at least for now) I would consider it loose cannon.


Microprocessors
I can't remember where this came up but I saw a post that stated these had only just been introduced just prior to 'the war'

I find this to be a considerable ret-con that breaks a lot of essential origin lore, there are simply too many things in the world of Fallout 1 & 2 that demand highly advanced electronic components well beyond 'basic microprocessors'

As such I would strike this idea as a redundant ret-con to be dismissed.


Now, I need your thought and help.

Is my cyber-punk 80's / 50's retro-revival vision of 2077 accurate? What would you consider and why?

 

[ZigzagPX4]

My first Fallout was Fallout 3. From it, I initially assumed that the Fallout universe ran similar to ours but where the Cold War never ended - the only difference. I originally thought the 50's culture was a resurgence of classic culture (retro stuff becomes popular again sort of thing). I learned different later, but it was sort of a disappointment at first. I imagined that Fallout was our world, in which once we hit 2070s, 50's stuff rose back up to popularity.

I find it implausible too that a singular culture of music, fashion and art could stay the same for the entirety of 110-120 years. I assumed it at least switched a bit in the time period in between the divergence and the Great War, but snapped back to 50's and 60's culture shortly before the Great War.

 

[The-Artist-64]

An American declaration of war on North Vietnam suggests that things went much differently in the Vietnam War. It was likely over just as quickly as Korea, eliminating the protest and riots that shook America in the 1970s. Counter-culture remained underground and irrelevant until much later.

From this I presume that the Soviet Union was the one to get reforms instead of China in the 1970s, thus ending American/Soviet tension.

America likely experienced a revival of 1950s culture in the 2020s, because of the 50s-style 'Viva Las Vegas 2025' poster seen in the Lucky 38. I don't think this lasted too long, but I think that this retro vibe stuck with some older people (who implemented it in later decades) as they were nostalgic for their childhoods.

Judging by the presence of jazz music on the Big MT radio, and the fact that the scientists that worked there must have been older folks with gray hair, I'd say that the 2050s saw a revival in 1940s culture and music. Because the researchers must have been in their youth at the time, it was chosen to be played. It would make sense, seeing as the geopolitical situation closely resembles the very early parts of World War II. Communist China, similar to Nazi Germany, was annexing nations and growing unchecked, while Europe was busy engaged in war with the Middle East and therefore preoccupied, and Soviet Russia remained mostly quiet and maintained a weak, uneasy truce with China.

The 2060s saw dramatic changes to the world. China continued their ruthless conquest, but NATO was unable to respond as the European Commonwealth fell into anarchy. Many smaller nations, such as those in South America, went bakrupt due to the oil fields being set alight at the end of the EC-ME War and drying up in other places. I presume that war broke out between the Soviet Union and China as the Chinese violated the truce and invaded Soviet territory, while the U.S. remained isolationist. In 2066, however, as the Chinese invaded Alaska, the U.S. entered in the war. These three nations were some of the last remaining world superpowers on Earth. Before the decade finished, it seems that blues dominated the music scene as such a song is heard in the Fallout Tactics intro.

The 2070s were when society broke down and things 'went all Mad Max', so to speak. The war went on so long that both sides began to experience major economic turmoil, and the U.S. began to closely resemble what it looked like in the 1970s. Protesters and rebellious youth engaged in violent riots that made most major cities unsafe, as mentioned in Van Buren with Denver, while tension broke out in North America as the U.S. annexed Canada. Many Canadians also conducted rebellions, as seen with the Uprising of Edmonton, mentioned in Fallout Tactics.

American and Soviet forces closed in on China, liberated the annexed countries and won a decisive victory, but they were brought to their knees by protest. Personally, I'm convinced that by the time the war came, there wasn't much of a world left to be destroyed.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Ugh not again with the Soviet and American alliance. Why would the Soviets have anything to do with this? We can assume (may I remind that's all we're doing here) that the Soviets started dabbling in a weakened Middle East and Europe, as they were a superpower, literally the only remaining influential power anywhere near these areas. While I agree to the reforms idea, I doubt that would mean they would make a clear military alliance with America, especially as America in the Fallout universe seems to lean towards isolationist tendencies, keeping their nuclear power tech a secret (best seen by the various promotional pamphlets in New Vegas, published by Poseidon that talk about security. Note that they imply the Soviets were still spying on America). The Americans promoted as patriotic countrymen even in the original games wouldn't give away their secrets to the Soviets even as allies, which diminishes the possibility of an alliance unless they ally against China.

However where did China even go against the Soviets? The lore points that China was too busy annexing nearby territories, mainly south and east. Also they would be too busy throwing their last resources into America to go to war with the Russians. That extra pressure would have doomed them, something the Chinese would know all too well. Not to forget that if anything, the Russians AND the Chinese have more in common, due to both LOSING if America continues unharmed, due to their power sector. Russia gains nothing is they ally with America, apart from useless land (the lore implies that the Chinese territories were running out of resources and their supply routes falling apart). While they may have not joined with China to fight the Americans (saving their resources in case) they may have sent in covert supplies or watched on with increasing tension. The America-Russia alliance makes little sense.

 

[cratchety ol joe]

While I appreciate the discussion surrounding the global socioeconomic events that may have been 'reason' to the war. I'm more interested in the situation in the US itself, feel free to include such discussions but please try to stick with my OP topic

Point's I'm specifically interested in are:

1. Technology, what tech was available pre-war?
2. Personal Weapons capability and development of the pre-war alt-universe
3. Social trends of the pre-war world (music, fashion, attitudes, social constructs)
4. Divergence of real-world and alt-universe ... how much of our 'real' history can be included in the world of Fallout?

It goads me that FO4 has the sole survivor using weapons that smack of 1920's design and dresses like it's the 1950's while listening to music of the 40's all when we consider that 'society' stopped in the Year 2077 ... (Not counting any further alterations that have come about because of life in the wastes)

I want to know from a 'plausible' (i.e lore friendly) view what would we likely see in the wastes?

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Frankly, I feel like in fashion and music, anything up to before the 90's could be included in Fallout without looking out of place. Weaponry was somewhat simple - anything that would fit into the Cold War era (the Vietnam War is a good indicator, I suppose, but also the War in Afghanistan) plus energy weaponry that looks like it's still in their prototype phases.

The aversion to socialism is the biggest part to consider here, as it affects all facets of culture and progression. The Western world would be as averse to socialism and left-wing ideals as it could get, in an allusion to Cold War paranoia.

I think that's as far as it gets on the base - I don't think there was any stop in cultural progression, but it rather just cycled back to the way it was in the 50's. Which means that as far as we know there could be more than 50's styled music, advertisements, TV, and vehicles. As long as the war is not retconned to our world and is kept to before the 90's, I don't think any era then would've clashed with the tone of the Fallout universe.

 

[cratchety ol joe]

plus energy weaponry that looks like it's still in their prototype phases

I beg to differ on this, I'd say that energy weapons are or had been at quite advanced stage at the point of war.

[cannon / lore] the Wattz 2000 seems incredibly advanced (highly compact and very high performance) http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Laser_rifle_(Fallout)

I'd also argue that the suffix '2000' is indicative of its development either being a series number (much like intel chips have a series number to denote their production generation and capability) or that it was developed in the year 2000 (alt-universe) - Based on the fact the 'pistol' is named Wattz 1000, I'd lean toward production variation suffix.

[edit] The (cannon) description of the laser pistol declares it to be a civilian variant of military / police equipment - To me this means there are other even more refined energy weapons available in smaller numbers that we have no lore knowledge of.

Either option of it's development would indicate that weapons of this type have been in development for around 70-80 years at the point the bombs fall.

 

[The-Artist-64]

Ugh not again with the Soviet and American alliance. Why would the Soviets have anything to do with this? We can assume (may I remind that's all we're doing here) that the Soviets started dabbling in a weakened Middle East and Europe, as they were a superpower, literally the only remaining influential power anywhere near these areas. While I agree to the reforms idea, I doubt that would mean they would make a clear military alliance with America, especially as America in the Fallout universe seems to lean towards isolationist tendencies, keeping their nuclear power tech a secret (best seen by the various promotional pamphlets in New Vegas, published by Poseidon that talk about security. Note that they imply the Soviets were still spying on America). The Americans promoted as patriotic countrymen even in the original games wouldn't give away their secrets to the Soviets even as allies, which diminishes the possibility of an alliance unless they ally against China.

However where did China even go against the Soviets? The lore points that China was too busy annexing nearby territories, mainly south and east. Also they would be too busy throwing their last resources into America to go to war with the Russians. That extra pressure would have doomed them, something the Chinese would know all too well. Not to forget that if anything, the Russians AND the Chinese have more in common, due to both LOSING if America continues unharmed, due to their power sector. Russia gains nothing is they ally with America, apart from useless land (the lore implies that the Chinese territories were running out of resources and their supply routes falling apart). While they may have not joined with China to fight the Americans (saving their resources in case) they may have sent in covert supplies or watched on with increasing tension. The America-Russia alliance makes little sense.

Yes, 'again', because a Soviet-Chinese alliance wouldn't make sense either. I post what I want. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia on the REAL WORLD tension between the Soviets and the Chinese:

"In 1976, Mao died, and in 1978, the Gang of Four were overthrown by Deng Xiaoping, who was to soon implement pro-market economic reform. With the PRC no longer espousing the anti-revisionist notion of the antagonistic contradiction between classes, relations between the two countries became gradually normalized. In 1979, however, the PRC launched the Sino-Vietnamese War, a failed invasion of Vietnam (which had, after a period of ambivalence, sided with the Soviet Union) in response to the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia which overthrew the China-backed Khmer Rouge from power.

During the Sino-Soviet split, strained relations between China and the Soviet Union resulted in strained relations between China and the pro-Soviet Afghan Communist regime. China and Afghanistan had neutral relations with each other during the rule of King Zahir Shah. When the pro-Soviet Afghan Communists seized power in Afghanistan in 1978, relations between China and the Afghan communists quickly turned hostile. The Afghan pro-Soviet communists supported the Vietnamese during the Sino-Vietnamese War and blamed China for supporting Afghan anti-communist militants. China responded to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan by supporting the Afghan Mujahideen and ramping up their military presence near Afghanistan in Xinjiang. China acquired military equipment from the United States to defend itself from Soviet attack.

China moved its training camps for the Mujahideen from Pakistan into China itself. Hundreds of millions worth of anti-aircraft missiles, rocket launchers and machine guns were given to the Mujahideen by the Chinese. Chinese military advisors and army troops were present with the Mujahideen during training.

Even though Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev went on to criticize the post-Maoist CCP when it allowed for PRC millionaires as having lost the socialist path, with the dissolution of the Soviet Union in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the Soviet Union itself turned to privatization."

Anyways, I'd say that I analyzed American culture pretty well. Politics has a LOT of influence in culture, so it's an important thing to consider. The pre-war U.S. seems to have a very unique culture, with some retro influences.

Also, something interesting: the Fallout manual seems to indicate that leather armor was made for the pre-war sport of Motorcycle Football. Seeing as a lot of people wear that armor, meaning that a lot was produced before the war, perhaps that was the world's most popular pastime? XD

 

[Dr Fallout]

Ugh not again with the Soviet and American alliance. Why would the Soviets have anything to do with this? We can assume (may I remind that's all we're doing here) that the Soviets started dabbling in a weakened Middle East and Europe, as they were a superpower, literally the only remaining influential power anywhere near these areas. While I agree to the reforms idea, I doubt that would mean they would make a clear military alliance with America, especially as America in the Fallout universe seems to lean towards isolationist tendencies, keeping their nuclear power tech a secret (best seen by the various promotional pamphlets in New Vegas, published by Poseidon that talk about security. Note that they imply the Soviets were still spying on America). The Americans promoted as patriotic countrymen even in the original games wouldn't give away their secrets to the Soviets even as allies, which diminishes the possibility of an alliance unless they ally against China.

However where did China even go against the Soviets? The lore points that China was too busy annexing nearby territories, mainly south and east. Also they would be too busy throwing their last resources into America to go to war with the Russians. That extra pressure would have doomed them, something the Chinese would know all too well. Not to forget that if anything, the Russians AND the Chinese have more in common, due to both LOSING if America continues unharmed, due to their power sector. Russia gains nothing is they ally with America, apart from useless land (the lore implies that the Chinese territories were running out of resources and their supply routes falling apart). While they may have not joined with China to fight the Americans (saving their resources in case) they may have sent in covert supplies or watched on with increasing tension. The America-Russia alliance makes little sense.

Yes, 'again', because a Soviet-Chinese alliance wouldn't make sense either. I post what I want. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia on the REAL WORLD tension between the Soviets and the Chinese:

"In 1976, Mao died, and in 1978, the Gang of Four were overthrown by Deng Xiaoping, who was to soon implement pro-market economic reform. With the PRC no longer espousing the anti-revisionist notion of the antagonistic contradiction between classes, relations between the two countries became gradually normalized. In 1979, however, the PRC launched the Sino-Vietnamese War, a failed invasion of Vietnam (which had, after a period of ambivalence, sided with the Soviet Union) in response to the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia which overthrew the China-backed Khmer Rouge from power.

During the Sino-Soviet split, strained relations between China and the Soviet Union resulted in strained relations between China and the pro-Soviet Afghan Communist regime. China and Afghanistan had neutral relations with each other during the rule of King Zahir Shah. When the pro-Soviet Afghan Communists seized power in Afghanistan in 1978, relations between China and the Afghan communists quickly turned hostile. The Afghan pro-Soviet communists supported the Vietnamese during the Sino-Vietnamese War and blamed China for supporting Afghan anti-communist militants. China responded to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan by supporting the Afghan Mujahideen and ramping up their military presence near Afghanistan in Xinjiang. China acquired military equipment from the United States to defend itself from Soviet attack.

China moved its training camps for the Mujahideen from Pakistan into China itself. Hundreds of millions worth of anti-aircraft missiles, rocket launchers and machine guns were given to the Mujahideen by the Chinese. Chinese military advisors and army troops were present with the Mujahideen during training.

Even though Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev went on to criticize the post-Maoist CCP when it allowed for PRC millionaires as having lost the socialist path, with the dissolution of the Soviet Union in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the Soviet Union itself turned to privatization."

Anyways, I'd say that I analyzed American culture pretty well. Politics has a LOT of influence in culture, so it's an important thing to consider. The pre-war U.S. seems to have a very unique culture, with some retro influences.

Also, something interesting: the Fallout manual seems to indicate that leather armor was made for the pre-war sport of Motorcycle Football. Seeing as a lot of people wear that armor, meaning that a lot was produced before the war, perhaps that was the world's most popular pastime? XD

Actually, according to the situation it very much would. America has the means to survive an energy crisis, and given peace and free time could help develop it's nuclear industry which would allow it to outlive all other powers in the world. Russia and China don't have this, and whether they fight or not they will soon die out if they don't do something. Out of desperation it's entirely possible they would ally or at least reconcile in some manner and form. Of course you can do that, but I'll post a responding argument.

 

[peadar87]

Ugh, all conjecture. Don't get so attached to it. Anything after 1950 is completely up in the air until it is mentioned in-game. Referencing real-world events isn't relevant to the Fallout timeline. Maybe Mao was ousted by a Leninist coup? Maybe a Stalinist doctrine was maintained and Khrushchev never came to power in the USSR. Maybe all sorts of things.

For cultural stagnation, I've always told myself that that McCarthyism of the '50s pervaded everything the US did for the next 100 years. Any new developments were looked upon with suspicion, music, fashion, etc. In any case, '50s music on the radio isn't plot- or lore-critical, it's an atmosphere thing to show the '50s FUTURE vision of THE WOOOORLD OF TOMORRROOOOOOW! I don't expect Bethesda or anyone else to spend huge amounts of time and money composing hours of original 50s-themed soundtrack just because it's a little jarring for some if it seems that no new music has been composed in 100 years.

For life in the US, I'd actually imagine that "approved" people like the Sole Survivor, a war veteran, would have their idyllic '50s lifestyle. Nice houses, bubble-domed cars, robot butlers... While in the meantime, military police in power armour wipe out entire neighbourhoods of people suspected to be harbouring Communist 5th columnists, and people have to queue around the block to get some bread before stocks run out. It's disappointing that Bethesda didn't dabble with the fact that maybe the protagonist had to do some pretty crappy things in order to get their position of privilege in that crapsack world.

 

[peadar87]

Actually, according to the situation it very much would. America has the means to survive an energy crisis, and given peace and free time could help develop it's nuclear industry which would allow it to outlive all other powers in the world. Russia and China don't have this, and whether they fight or not they will soon die out if they don't do something. Out of desperation it's entirely possible they would ally or at least reconcile in some manner and form. Of course you can do that, but I'll post a responding argument.

Slightly off-topic, but one of the things that provoked the resource wars was a depleting supply of Uranium. We do actually have a limited supply of Uranium for our current reactor designs, because they are developed from technology originally intended to produce Plutonium for weapons development, not to be able to burn varied or common isotopes of fuel efficiently.

I've always found the fact that fusion technology was apparently widespread to be out of keeping with my vision of the Fallout Universe. Sustainable, controlled nuclear fusion is pretty much an energy magic bullet, and I don't think it fits with the idea of a world going to shit and running out of resources because people were too busy fighting each other to think more than ten minutes into the future.

In my headcanon, all reactors are fission-run, things like "Microfusion Cells" are just a brand name for a high-density energy storage device, and the Sierra Madre vending machines are just pneumatic tubes running to a central storage vault, not magic matter assemblers.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Actually, according to the situation it very much would. America has the means to survive an energy crisis, and given peace and free time could help develop it's nuclear industry which would allow it to outlive all other powers in the world. Russia and China don't have this, and whether they fight or not they will soon die out if they don't do something. Out of desperation it's entirely possible they would ally or at least reconcile in some manner and form. Of course you can do that, but I'll post a responding argument.

Slightly off-topic, but one of the things that provoked the resource wars was a depleting supply of Uranium. We do actually have a limited supply of Uranium for our current reactor designs, because they are developed from technology originally intended to produce Plutonium for weapons development, not to be able to burn varied or common isotopes of fuel efficiently.

I've always found the fact that fusion technology was apparently widespread to be out of keeping with my vision of the Fallout Universe. Sustainable, controlled nuclear fusion is pretty much an energy magic bullet, and I don't think it fits with the idea of a world going to shit and running out of resources because people were too busy fighting each other to think more than ten minutes into the future.

In my headcanon, all reactors are fission-run, things like "Microfusion Cells" are just a brand name for a high-density energy storage device, and the Sierra Madre vending machines are just pneumatic tubes running to a central storage vault, not magic matter assemblers.

Wasn't implied at some point that if the Great War didn't occur, the US-developed microfusion cell could've solved a lot of the resources problem, but it didn't have time to spread? The cell was the most efficient power source of its generation, but didn't reach peak knowledge and was introduced too late to stop the war. This is as far as I know. In fact, I personally think that the existence of sci-fi, nigh-impossible "microfusion" cells are what makes a lot of Fallout unique.

 

[peadar87]

Actually, according to the situation it very much would. America has the means to survive an energy crisis, and given peace and free time could help develop it's nuclear industry which would allow it to outlive all other powers in the world. Russia and China don't have this, and whether they fight or not they will soon die out if they don't do something. Out of desperation it's entirely possible they would ally or at least reconcile in some manner and form. Of course you can do that, but I'll post a responding argument.

Slightly off-topic, but one of the things that provoked the resource wars was a depleting supply of Uranium. We do actually have a limited supply of Uranium for our current reactor designs, because they are developed from technology originally intended to produce Plutonium for weapons development, not to be able to burn varied or common isotopes of fuel efficiently.

I've always found the fact that fusion technology was apparently widespread to be out of keeping with my vision of the Fallout Universe. Sustainable, controlled nuclear fusion is pretty much an energy magic bullet, and I don't think it fits with the idea of a world going to shit and running out of resources because people were too busy fighting each other to think more than ten minutes into the future.

In my headcanon, all reactors are fission-run, things like "Microfusion Cells" are just a brand name for a high-density energy storage device, and the Sierra Madre vending machines are just pneumatic tubes running to a central storage vault, not magic matter assemblers.

Wasn't implied at some point that if the Great War didn't occur, the US-developed microfusion cell could've solved a lot of the resources problem, but it didn't have time to spread? The cell was the most efficient power source of its generation, but didn't reach peak knowledge and was introduced too late to stop the war. This is as far as I know. In fact, I personally think that the existence of sci-fi, nigh-impossible "microfusion" cells are what makes a lot of Fallout unique.

Yep, official canon is that stuff like the Microfusion Cell and matter replicators came too late to have any effect on the scarcity that ultimately led to the Great War.

I prefer to make a small retcon to that in my head, because it enhances my enjoyment of the games.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Actually, according to the situation it very much would. America has the means to survive an energy crisis, and given peace and free time could help develop it's nuclear industry which would allow it to outlive all other powers in the world. Russia and China don't have this, and whether they fight or not they will soon die out if they don't do something. Out of desperation it's entirely possible they would ally or at least reconcile in some manner and form. Of course you can do that, but I'll post a responding argument.

Slightly off-topic, but one of the things that provoked the resource wars was a depleting supply of Uranium. We do actually have a limited supply of Uranium for our current reactor designs, because they are developed from technology originally intended to produce Plutonium for weapons development, not to be able to burn varied or common isotopes of fuel efficiently.

I've always found the fact that fusion technology was apparently widespread to be out of keeping with my vision of the Fallout Universe. Sustainable, controlled nuclear fusion is pretty much an energy magic bullet, and I don't think it fits with the idea of a world going to shit and running out of resources because people were too busy fighting each other to think more than ten minutes into the future.

In my headcanon, all reactors are fission-run, things like "Microfusion Cells" are just a brand name for a high-density energy storage device, and the Sierra Madre vending machines are just pneumatic tubes running to a central storage vault, not magic matter assemblers.

Wasn't implied at some point that if the Great War didn't occur, the US-developed microfusion cell could've solved a lot of the resources problem, but it didn't have time to spread? The cell was the most efficient power source of its generation, but didn't reach peak knowledge and was introduced too late to stop the war. This is as far as I know. In fact, I personally think that the existence of sci-fi, nigh-impossible "microfusion" cells are what makes a lot of Fallout unique.

Yep, official canon is that stuff like the Microfusion Cell and matter replicators came too late to have any effect on the scarcity that ultimately led to the Great War.

I prefer to make a small retcon to that in my head, because it enhances my enjoyment of the games.

I suppose the best part about Obsidian/Black Isle's writing is that it's detailed enough to support a good narrative and hold a well-defined world in place, yet leaves just about enough unexplained so that the player can happily fill it with their own imagination. Fallout 4's lore, in contrast, is not detailed enough to create a believable world, yet fills in too many gaps for no reason at all, disallowing the player from roleplaying. It almost feels intentional, at this point.

Speaking of which, I think that the fact about microfusion cells coming to late came from the Fallout Bible. How much of that is still canon?

 

[Dr Fallout]

Technically almost none of the Bible is official canon unless Bethesda says so. But to some like me, it holds much more water then anything Bethesda makes up.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Technically almost none of the Bible is official canon unless Bethesda says so. But to some like me, it holds much more water then anything Bethesda makes up.

Wait. Is the Fallout Bible the equivalent of Star War's Expanded Universe now, then?

 

[Dr Fallout]

Technically almost none of the Bible is official canon unless Bethesda says so. But to some like me, it holds much more water then anything Bethesda makes up.

Wait. Is the Fallout Bible the equivalent of Star War's Expanded Universe now, then?

Yes, it very much is sadly.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Technically almost none of the Bible is official canon unless Bethesda says so. But to some like me, it holds much more water then anything Bethesda makes up.

Wait. Is the Fallout Bible the equivalent of Star War's Expanded Universe now, then?

Yes, it very much is sadly.

That makes Bethesda the equivalent of Disney then?

 

[Dr Fallout]

Technically almost none of the Bible is official canon unless Bethesda says so. But to some like me, it holds much more water then anything Bethesda makes up.

Wait. Is the Fallout Bible the equivalent of Star War's Expanded Universe now, then?

Yes, it very much is sadly.

That makes Bethesda the equivalent of Disney then?

Disney makes some good stuff, Bethesda makes nothing good.

 

[DarkCorp]

Reference security robots, laser rifles, plasma pistol, .223 pistol, etc, from, vertibirds, from Fallout 1 and 2. Same with the mohawks on the statues. Look at the cyberdog, the combat armor, the space shuttle in San Francisco. They have nothing in common with the 1950s and 60s where the concept of re-usable space vehicles hadn't even been built or thought up yet.

The world of Fallout was a mash of 50-60s flavoring mixed with the cyberpunk feel of the 80s.