DwayneGAnd
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
For me, this is the most hated quest in the game, then again who doesn't hate this quest? You're surrounded by people who hate your guts, villify you, and even utter death threats. And it wasn't even your fault the crisis even happened in the first place! You never get a chance to properly defend yourself or make it clear that you refuse to be a scapegoat. Even those who were friendly to you while growing up have turned their backs on you for the purpose of saving face. Even if you saved Ellen Deloria, she now resents you. Ungrateful b*tch!
You get the feeling that people aren't at all grateful for your help, unlike the rest of the wasteland. For me, the best way is to just sabotage the vault reactor or even to just kill everyone (for those who take the contract killer perk). Then afterward you can just donate caps or give away scrap metal in Megaton to restore whatever karma you lost. Or you can just ignore the signal until you lose it.
In my opinion, this quest just isn't worth doing due to the small reward and the bittersweet ending (unless you sabotage the vault, throw it into chaos, or just kill everyone). There are much better armor choices than the modified utility suit, Butch is the weakest companion in the game, and you can get more 5mm ammo and cram out in the wasteland anyway!
The game producers could have done much better to make this a more satisfying quest. Here is list of suggestions for how it could have been much better.
1.More NPC's. Those you saw during Escape appear.
-Tom and Mary Holden appear among the rebels if they survived.
-Officer O'Brian, Park, Richards, and Wolfe appear if you didn't kill them.
-Gloria Mack, Allen Mack's wife and mother to Wally, Susie, and Officer Mack. Despite being a loyalist, she is sympathetic to the rebels cause. Her initial attitude towards you is much friendlier than the other loyalists.
-Officer Armstrong appears even if Officer Gomez is still alive. Gomez also gets his original voice back.
-Allen Mack appears even if he is not overseer.
2.More dialogue options available with all characters. Examples include:
-Giving your condolences to Taylor about his wife or commenting on how you though radroaches did her in.
-Telling Pepper about Taylor shooting at Freddie
-Asking Gomez and Stanley why they seem so wary towards you in spite of their friendliness during your childhood.
-Reminding Ellen she definitely owes you for saving her life.
-Confronting Officer Mack about his role in Jonas' death.
-Giving your condolences toward Stanley about Beatrice's death.
-Asking Officer Kendall about what he wants to do to you and your father (must speak to Christine first)
-If Fawkes is your companion, you can ask Wally about playing a real game of Hunt the Mutant. He will freak out at the sight of Fawkes.
3.Your actions in Escape affect certain dialogues with characters. For example, if Officer Mack was killed, Allen, Wally, and Susie will comment on it depending on whether it was you or Amata who killed him.
4.If someone badmouths you or your father in dialogue, the following options become available:
-Defend your father. For example, telling Wally you do know how it feels to have a hero for a dad. Some people will become so disgusted they will refuse to speak to you ever again. Other people become will so insulted that they will turn hostile. You will not lose karma for killing someone should they turn hostile, but this will turn other people hostile and in the worst case, the whole vault.
-Defend yourself and make it clear you refuse to be a scapegoat. Carries the same risks for defending your father.
-If Star Paladin Cross is your companion, you can have her confront the person insulting your father (why not, she calls you out if you badmouth your dad in the citadel while speaking to her). Depending on the person, they will either back down in fear or say something causing Cross to lose her cool and kill him or her.
-Throw an insult of your own against that person. Carries the same risks as defending your father or self.
-Threaten that person. You will lose karma.
-Turn hostile and attack. You will lose karma.
5.You can actually engage in dialogue with Officer Wilkins. Normally he would only turn hostile if you tried talking to him. He will have a different greeting than his usual threat when you open up dialogue or he forces open dialogue. Most dialogue options result in him doing his usual threat, but you can talk yourself out of a fight if you:
-Pass a speech check
-Use the toughness perk to intimidate him
-If you quelled the rebels without violence or killed Amata, you can tell him that you made sure no one will ever leave.
-If you've been exiled or chose not to get involved and leave the vault, you can tell him so.
-With a Strength of 8 or more, you can threaten him by telling him he will never leave that spot again after you break every bone in his body. This will freak him out ala Terrifying Presence.
After using one of these options, he will not turn hostile, but he won't talk to you anymore.
6.If you kill either the overseer or Amata, a dialogue option opens with the other that turns them hostile. For example, if you kill Alphonse, you can tell Amata "if you miss daddy that much, maybe you should join him." If you kill Amata you can tell Alphonse "You don't know anything about sacrifice, it involves blood and lots of it. Guess whose is getting spilled next?"
7.Alternative ways of solving the quest:
-Killing everyone. If you threaten the whole vault in dialogue with the overseer, he will put the vault on alert and everyone will be hostile. Since solving the quest peacefully is no longer possible, you need to kill everyone to get credit and complete the quest.
-Insulting the vault. You can insult the whole vault in dialogue with the overseer. Allent Mack will attack you after a brief dialogue whereas Alphonse will make a speech saying he's not at all surprised by your attitude, but rather expected. Armed loyalists and Security Guards (with the exception of Armstrong and Gomez) will attack you on sight whereas unarmed loyalists will yell for securty. The rebels will refuse to talk to you. Gomez, Butch, and Amata are the only people who will still speak to you. Gomez and Amata will express disgust and disappointment towards you while Butch will praise you for sticking it to everyone!
-Summon the Enclave. After you get the extraction report on the Enclave trying to gain access to the vault, you can tell Amata about it. As long as you don't tell her the truth about the Enclave and how dangerous they are, she will become excited that the government is trying to contact the vault. She will give you a password to activate a beacon to summon them to the vault now that the door is open and you are inside. Activating the beacon gives you bad karma. If the overseer witnesses you do this, he will confront you. Allen will immediately turn hostile while Alphonse will tell you to leave the vault quickly. Still, even if you rush to the door guarded by Taylor, the Enclave have already arrived. Most of the security guards who resist will be killed and the others will be rounded up and taken to Raven Rock.
-If you haven't returned to vault 101 after getting the signal, you can give the password to colonel Autumn after you are captured. This fails the quest and give you bad karma, imprisoning the vault residents in Raven Rock.
8.If you quell the rebels without violence or expose the midnight raid, the loyalists will thank you. Unarmed loyalists will do so happily while armed loyalists will do so begrudgingly.
9.New Unmarked Quests
Alcoholics Anonymous-Pass a speech check with Ellen, have a Perception of 8, or have a medicine skill of 50 and she will reveal that Butch destroyed the alcohol still and disposed of all alcoholic drinks in the vault. If you are unable to fulfill these checks, talk to Butch and ask him about his mother. Giving her alcoholic drinks such as beer, whiskey, or vodka will improve her mood towards you, but give you bad karma. Passing another speech check or having a medicine skill of 70 will convince her that Butch was upset that she cares more about her drink than him, explaining why he turned out the way he did. This will upset Ellen, realizing that you are right. If you tell her she blew it as a mother, she will agree and drink a lethal concoction to commit suicide, giving you bad karma. If you tell her that reconciliation is still possible, you will get good karma. If you do this and solve the quest peacefully, you can see Butch and his mother reconcile as you leave the vault and she will thank you.
Friend in Need-Seeing as how you were Freddy's friend growing up in the vault, Pepper will ask you to go to the rebel camp and talk to Freddy. Pass a speech check with him to convince him not to take anymore risks. If you succeed, Pepper will thank you and her attitude will become much friendlier towards you for the rest of your time in the vault. If you are unable to pass the speech check, she will tell you to quell the rebels. Do so peacefully and she will speak on your behalf with the other loyalists. She will be among those who thank you happily.
Mr. Fixit-You can offer to help Stanly fix the filtration system if your repair skill is at 60 or science is 75. Simply follow his instructions to help him with the repairs. You will get good karma and an upgrade to you Pipboy reducing all AP costs by 25%, but you will also no longer be able to sabotage the vault if you complete the repairs.
Bully for You-If you protest to sabotaging the vault after getting the optional objective from Butch, he will offer an alternative to getting him out of the vault, involving dealing with Officer Taylor. Killing Taylor gives you bad karma and turns anyone nearby hostile. Or you can pass a speech check convincing him that the rebels won't make another attempt to leave after what happened with Freddie. Succeed and he will abandon his post. Talk to Butch and he will make plans to leave the vault. This option is for those who wish to keep the vault closed but will allow Butch to leave the vault and allow you to recruit him.
Mightnight Rescue-When you discover the plans for the midnight raid, you have until midnight to solve the faction crisis, otherwise the rebels will be slaughtered and the quest will fail. Confronting various security guards with this info results in them turning hostile (with the exception of Gomez, Taylor, and Armstrong) Gloria, Pepper, Stanley, and Ellen (if you convince her that reconciliation with Butch is possible) can be warned about the upcoming raid and they will hurry to the rebel camp. If her father is still overseer, Amata will insist on accompanying you to see her father where you can show him the plans for the midnight raid. Afterwards, you can see him berating the chief of security for his plans that would have jeopardized the future of the vault. If Allen Mack is overseer, he will actually grant his approval for the upcoming raid. If officer Gomez is present he will voice his opposition to Allen Mack which results in Allen
turning hostile on Gomez. Saving Gomez will earn you his thanks.
10.Just as you could with Alphonse after being exiled you can now insult and curse Amata after she asks you to leave. If you do this, however, you won't get the modified ultilty suit.
11.Sabotaging the Vault after getting the optional objecting from Butch will open new dialogue options with Alphonse and Amata. You can tell Alphonse that you only did what Butch asked you to do, resulting in him getting angry and regretful that he didn't take care of the tunnel snakes earlier. Telling Amata about Butch asking you to do it and how you wish you didn't listen to him results in Amata deciding that Butch is truly to blame for this.
12.New or Improved Random Encounters
Amata's Fate-If you save Amata from the Enclave, she will now thank you if you passed the speech check blaming the overseer or told her the truth about Butch asking you to sabotage the vault. If Butch is your companion, however, she will turn hostile.
Vault Vengeance-If you sabotage the vault, several mobs of surviving security guards, loyalists, and rebels will attack you.
Out of the Vault-Susie will refuse to talk to you if you cursed and insulted Amata after being exiled.
Amata's Vengeance-If you killed the overseer and Amata banishes you calling you a murderer, you will meet Susie, Christine, and Freddie outside the vault who tell you that Amata sends her regards. They will then turn hostile and attack. On their bodies, you can find a holotape revealing the new password to the vault door allowing you to re-enter the vault. Of course, everyone will be hostile, including Amata who isn't at all happy to see you and attacks after a short dialogue. Killing her gives you bad karma.
13.An alternate way of dealing with the rebels is to use the Robotics Expert Perk to reprogram Andy to attack the rebels. You will not get as much bad karma compared to killing them yourselves.
If I can think of anymore I will post them. If you have your own ideas of how this could have been a much more satisfying quest, post them here too.
You get the feeling that people aren't at all grateful for your help, unlike the rest of the wasteland. For me, the best way is to just sabotage the vault reactor or even to just kill everyone (for those who take the contract killer perk). Then afterward you can just donate caps or give away scrap metal in Megaton to restore whatever karma you lost. Or you can just ignore the signal until you lose it.
In my opinion, this quest just isn't worth doing due to the small reward and the bittersweet ending (unless you sabotage the vault, throw it into chaos, or just kill everyone). There are much better armor choices than the modified utility suit, Butch is the weakest companion in the game, and you can get more 5mm ammo and cram out in the wasteland anyway!
The game producers could have done much better to make this a more satisfying quest. Here is list of suggestions for how it could have been much better.
1.More NPC's. Those you saw during Escape appear.
-Tom and Mary Holden appear among the rebels if they survived.
-Officer O'Brian, Park, Richards, and Wolfe appear if you didn't kill them.
-Gloria Mack, Allen Mack's wife and mother to Wally, Susie, and Officer Mack. Despite being a loyalist, she is sympathetic to the rebels cause. Her initial attitude towards you is much friendlier than the other loyalists.
-Officer Armstrong appears even if Officer Gomez is still alive. Gomez also gets his original voice back.
-Allen Mack appears even if he is not overseer.
2.More dialogue options available with all characters. Examples include:
-Giving your condolences to Taylor about his wife or commenting on how you though radroaches did her in.
-Telling Pepper about Taylor shooting at Freddie
-Asking Gomez and Stanley why they seem so wary towards you in spite of their friendliness during your childhood.
-Reminding Ellen she definitely owes you for saving her life.
-Confronting Officer Mack about his role in Jonas' death.
-Giving your condolences toward Stanley about Beatrice's death.
-Asking Officer Kendall about what he wants to do to you and your father (must speak to Christine first)
-If Fawkes is your companion, you can ask Wally about playing a real game of Hunt the Mutant. He will freak out at the sight of Fawkes.
3.Your actions in Escape affect certain dialogues with characters. For example, if Officer Mack was killed, Allen, Wally, and Susie will comment on it depending on whether it was you or Amata who killed him.
4.If someone badmouths you or your father in dialogue, the following options become available:
-Defend your father. For example, telling Wally you do know how it feels to have a hero for a dad. Some people will become so disgusted they will refuse to speak to you ever again. Other people become will so insulted that they will turn hostile. You will not lose karma for killing someone should they turn hostile, but this will turn other people hostile and in the worst case, the whole vault.
-Defend yourself and make it clear you refuse to be a scapegoat. Carries the same risks for defending your father.
-If Star Paladin Cross is your companion, you can have her confront the person insulting your father (why not, she calls you out if you badmouth your dad in the citadel while speaking to her). Depending on the person, they will either back down in fear or say something causing Cross to lose her cool and kill him or her.
-Throw an insult of your own against that person. Carries the same risks as defending your father or self.
-Threaten that person. You will lose karma.
-Turn hostile and attack. You will lose karma.
5.You can actually engage in dialogue with Officer Wilkins. Normally he would only turn hostile if you tried talking to him. He will have a different greeting than his usual threat when you open up dialogue or he forces open dialogue. Most dialogue options result in him doing his usual threat, but you can talk yourself out of a fight if you:
-Pass a speech check
-Use the toughness perk to intimidate him
-If you quelled the rebels without violence or killed Amata, you can tell him that you made sure no one will ever leave.
-If you've been exiled or chose not to get involved and leave the vault, you can tell him so.
-With a Strength of 8 or more, you can threaten him by telling him he will never leave that spot again after you break every bone in his body. This will freak him out ala Terrifying Presence.
After using one of these options, he will not turn hostile, but he won't talk to you anymore.
6.If you kill either the overseer or Amata, a dialogue option opens with the other that turns them hostile. For example, if you kill Alphonse, you can tell Amata "if you miss daddy that much, maybe you should join him." If you kill Amata you can tell Alphonse "You don't know anything about sacrifice, it involves blood and lots of it. Guess whose is getting spilled next?"
7.Alternative ways of solving the quest:
-Killing everyone. If you threaten the whole vault in dialogue with the overseer, he will put the vault on alert and everyone will be hostile. Since solving the quest peacefully is no longer possible, you need to kill everyone to get credit and complete the quest.
-Insulting the vault. You can insult the whole vault in dialogue with the overseer. Allent Mack will attack you after a brief dialogue whereas Alphonse will make a speech saying he's not at all surprised by your attitude, but rather expected. Armed loyalists and Security Guards (with the exception of Armstrong and Gomez) will attack you on sight whereas unarmed loyalists will yell for securty. The rebels will refuse to talk to you. Gomez, Butch, and Amata are the only people who will still speak to you. Gomez and Amata will express disgust and disappointment towards you while Butch will praise you for sticking it to everyone!
-Summon the Enclave. After you get the extraction report on the Enclave trying to gain access to the vault, you can tell Amata about it. As long as you don't tell her the truth about the Enclave and how dangerous they are, she will become excited that the government is trying to contact the vault. She will give you a password to activate a beacon to summon them to the vault now that the door is open and you are inside. Activating the beacon gives you bad karma. If the overseer witnesses you do this, he will confront you. Allen will immediately turn hostile while Alphonse will tell you to leave the vault quickly. Still, even if you rush to the door guarded by Taylor, the Enclave have already arrived. Most of the security guards who resist will be killed and the others will be rounded up and taken to Raven Rock.
-If you haven't returned to vault 101 after getting the signal, you can give the password to colonel Autumn after you are captured. This fails the quest and give you bad karma, imprisoning the vault residents in Raven Rock.
8.If you quell the rebels without violence or expose the midnight raid, the loyalists will thank you. Unarmed loyalists will do so happily while armed loyalists will do so begrudgingly.
9.New Unmarked Quests
Alcoholics Anonymous-Pass a speech check with Ellen, have a Perception of 8, or have a medicine skill of 50 and she will reveal that Butch destroyed the alcohol still and disposed of all alcoholic drinks in the vault. If you are unable to fulfill these checks, talk to Butch and ask him about his mother. Giving her alcoholic drinks such as beer, whiskey, or vodka will improve her mood towards you, but give you bad karma. Passing another speech check or having a medicine skill of 70 will convince her that Butch was upset that she cares more about her drink than him, explaining why he turned out the way he did. This will upset Ellen, realizing that you are right. If you tell her she blew it as a mother, she will agree and drink a lethal concoction to commit suicide, giving you bad karma. If you tell her that reconciliation is still possible, you will get good karma. If you do this and solve the quest peacefully, you can see Butch and his mother reconcile as you leave the vault and she will thank you.
Friend in Need-Seeing as how you were Freddy's friend growing up in the vault, Pepper will ask you to go to the rebel camp and talk to Freddy. Pass a speech check with him to convince him not to take anymore risks. If you succeed, Pepper will thank you and her attitude will become much friendlier towards you for the rest of your time in the vault. If you are unable to pass the speech check, she will tell you to quell the rebels. Do so peacefully and she will speak on your behalf with the other loyalists. She will be among those who thank you happily.
Mr. Fixit-You can offer to help Stanly fix the filtration system if your repair skill is at 60 or science is 75. Simply follow his instructions to help him with the repairs. You will get good karma and an upgrade to you Pipboy reducing all AP costs by 25%, but you will also no longer be able to sabotage the vault if you complete the repairs.
Bully for You-If you protest to sabotaging the vault after getting the optional objective from Butch, he will offer an alternative to getting him out of the vault, involving dealing with Officer Taylor. Killing Taylor gives you bad karma and turns anyone nearby hostile. Or you can pass a speech check convincing him that the rebels won't make another attempt to leave after what happened with Freddie. Succeed and he will abandon his post. Talk to Butch and he will make plans to leave the vault. This option is for those who wish to keep the vault closed but will allow Butch to leave the vault and allow you to recruit him.
Mightnight Rescue-When you discover the plans for the midnight raid, you have until midnight to solve the faction crisis, otherwise the rebels will be slaughtered and the quest will fail. Confronting various security guards with this info results in them turning hostile (with the exception of Gomez, Taylor, and Armstrong) Gloria, Pepper, Stanley, and Ellen (if you convince her that reconciliation with Butch is possible) can be warned about the upcoming raid and they will hurry to the rebel camp. If her father is still overseer, Amata will insist on accompanying you to see her father where you can show him the plans for the midnight raid. Afterwards, you can see him berating the chief of security for his plans that would have jeopardized the future of the vault. If Allen Mack is overseer, he will actually grant his approval for the upcoming raid. If officer Gomez is present he will voice his opposition to Allen Mack which results in Allen
turning hostile on Gomez. Saving Gomez will earn you his thanks.
10.Just as you could with Alphonse after being exiled you can now insult and curse Amata after she asks you to leave. If you do this, however, you won't get the modified ultilty suit.
11.Sabotaging the Vault after getting the optional objecting from Butch will open new dialogue options with Alphonse and Amata. You can tell Alphonse that you only did what Butch asked you to do, resulting in him getting angry and regretful that he didn't take care of the tunnel snakes earlier. Telling Amata about Butch asking you to do it and how you wish you didn't listen to him results in Amata deciding that Butch is truly to blame for this.
12.New or Improved Random Encounters
Amata's Fate-If you save Amata from the Enclave, she will now thank you if you passed the speech check blaming the overseer or told her the truth about Butch asking you to sabotage the vault. If Butch is your companion, however, she will turn hostile.
Vault Vengeance-If you sabotage the vault, several mobs of surviving security guards, loyalists, and rebels will attack you.
Out of the Vault-Susie will refuse to talk to you if you cursed and insulted Amata after being exiled.
Amata's Vengeance-If you killed the overseer and Amata banishes you calling you a murderer, you will meet Susie, Christine, and Freddie outside the vault who tell you that Amata sends her regards. They will then turn hostile and attack. On their bodies, you can find a holotape revealing the new password to the vault door allowing you to re-enter the vault. Of course, everyone will be hostile, including Amata who isn't at all happy to see you and attacks after a short dialogue. Killing her gives you bad karma.
13.An alternate way of dealing with the rebels is to use the Robotics Expert Perk to reprogram Andy to attack the rebels. You will not get as much bad karma compared to killing them yourselves.
If I can think of anymore I will post them. If you have your own ideas of how this could have been a much more satisfying quest, post them here too.
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