Burst weapons too powerful

Q

Question2

It Wandered In From the Wastes
They basically instant kill humans at close range and do massive damage even at long range, 20-30 damage is common at 30 hexes away with one burst from an assault rifle. Thats a huge chunk of your HP at that level.

Sulik also instantly dies against enemies with burst weapons since all they have to do is burst fire him once and he dies. At this point, im still using leather armor.

Anyone know of a mod that adjusts burst weapons?
 
Well, duh?

A burst fires more bullets, each can potentiall crit...Ergo, lots od damage?
 
I know, i was just saying its a balance problem. When you or a NPC can die in one or two bursts, it gets very frustrating since you just have to keep reloading to try and get a better result on the burst roll.
 
Question2 said:
I know, i was just saying its a balance problem. When you or a NPC can die in one or two bursts, it gets very frustrating since you just have to keep reloading to try and get a better result on the burst roll.
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Ultimately that's just the game.

Fallout 1-2 is based on pen and paper games, where critical failures and massive successes can slay the mightiest hero just randomly.
 
Does anyone know exactly how the burst formulae works?

Even with 95% hit chance, 95% of the burst rounds obviously do not hit the target unless at pointblank range.
 
Question2 said:
Does anyone know exactly how the burst formulae works?

Even with 95% hit chance, 95% of the burst rounds obviously do not hit the target unless at pointblank range.
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IIRC doesn't it have multiple lines, and variable spreads?

Can't remember exactly.
 
Question2 said:
I know, i was just saying its a balance problem. When you or a NPC can die in one or two bursts, it gets very frustrating since you just have to keep reloading to try and get a better result on the burst roll.
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Just avoid areas where there will be enemies with burst weapons until you can easily take them out quickly.
 
NovaRain said:
You can check Atom's post: http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/critical-failures-tables-fallout2-exe.188045/page-2#post-3645850
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Thanks, thats seems odd. If im reading that post correctly, if the target is adjacent, all bullets may hit the target? The 1/6 figure doesnt make sense...that means that at 2 hexes and beyond, the primary target may only get hit by 1-2 rounds from a 10 round burst (maximum) and everything else flies to the sides.

Not sure if this was adjusted by the restoration patch but its definately possible to take more damage from a long range burst than just 1/6 of the rounds fired.
 
Question2 said:
Thanks, thats seems odd. If im reading that post correctly, if the target is adjacent, all bullets may hit the target? The 1/6 figure doesnt make sense...that means that at 2 hexes and beyond, the primary target may only get hit by 1-2 rounds from a 10 round burst (maximum) and everything else flies to the sides.
Not sure if this was adjusted by the restoration patch but its definately possible to take more damage from a long range burst than just 1/6 of the rounds fired.
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It has nothing to do with RP. If there's no other critter in between you and your target, and the target is not next to you, at max 1/3 of burst rounds will hit the target.
 
Is it all that surprising that burst does more damage though?

Firing 10 shots at an enemy has a far higher potential of damage than 1 shot, barring eye hits.
 
NovaRain said:
It has nothing to do with RP. If there's no other critter in between you and your target, and the target is not next to you, at max 1/3 of burst rounds will hit the target.
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1/3rd? Doesnt that post say that only 1/6 of the rounds fired can hit the primary target?

The problem is more that melee characters die instantly to anyone with a burst weapon until you get power armor, at which point most enemies in the game pose little threat to you. Sulik in particular kept forcing me to reload.

I mean sure, it is "realistic" but ranged weapons are far more powerful than melee anyway...
 
I find that it's worse if you are in melee range with the target. Perhaps that's why Sulik dies to it, is he equiped with melee weapons?

Anyway, try to take out enemies with Burst attacks as soon as possible. Also, if you are able to bring your own burst weapons, do so. The players bursts are equally as brutal, and allow you to get through the game much easier than with normal weapons.

And honestly, unpopular opinion, but I think it makes the game more fun that everything can turn around at any instant.
 
Question2 said:
1/3rd? Doesnt that post say that only 1/6 of the rounds fired can hit the primary target?
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Atom said:
All the bullets are divided into three groups (left, right, central, that will contain about 1/3, 1/3, and 1/6+n bullets respectively, where n are leftover bullets from the initial 1/6 volley that attacked the primary target).
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The central group will still try to hit your primary target if there's no other critter in between you and him/her/it. 1/6 + 1/6 = 1/3.
 
Jogre said:
I find that it's worse if you are in melee range with the target. Perhaps that's why Sulik dies to it, is he equiped with melee weapons?

Anyway, try to take out enemies with Burst attacks as soon as possible. Also, if you are able to bring your own burst weapons, do so. The players bursts are equally as brutal, and allow you to get through the game much easier than with normal weapons.

And honestly, unpopular opinion, but I think it makes the game more fun that everything can turn around at any instant.
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Well Sulik is designed as a melee character after all.

Player bursts tend not to be as effective except vs melee enemies IMHO. Its rare that you can hit more than 2 enemies due to placement. Also companions tend to block your burst shots.

I think it would be better if all burst shots hit in a central cone of fire but there is a massive penalty to hit/range penalty, and if weapons fired fewer burst shots in general. That way you could "aim" all burst shots at one target if its the only one there but it would be very unlikely for all of them to hit unless you have extremely high skills. But im not sure if thats possible to do...
 
Sulik is a melee character, but give him a P90 and he'll shred shit up.

He can use...Any SMG sprite gun, iirc.
 
Ive been using fast shots + burst weapons a lot lately and once you get an assault rifle with AP rounds, everything just turns into easy mode. Not even using the sniper perk, and with end game burst weapons you can kill pretty much everything in 1-2 bursts from long range.

The best part of this is that you dont need to go above 100 guns skill at all so you save a lot of skill points that can go into other areas. Heck, you can use magazines to get up to 91%. With the usual eye shots strategy, you need a high guns skill.
 
Question2 said:
Ive been using fast shots + burst weapons a lot lately and once you get an assault rifle with AP rounds, everything just turns into easy mode. Not even using the sniper perk, and with end game burst weapons you can kill pretty much everything in 1-2 bursts from long range.

The best part of this is that you dont need to go above 100 guns skill at all so you save a lot of skill points that can go into other areas. Heck, you can use magazines to get up to 91%. With the usual eye shots strategy, you need a high guns skill.
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Considering the Enclave can tank a couple of crital pulse rifle eye shots, you'll need more dakka than AP AR's to take them out easily.
 
Oh, i didnt mean ARs vs power armor. By that time you are probably using a minigun of some kind.

Actually, i just noticed that sfall's computespraymod might be buggy. I had it turned on and using default values, which are supposed to be the same as the default game, but i noticed that it was possible to have far more than 1/3rd of rounds hit the primary target. That might be why burst weapons felt overpowered.
 
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