20th Anniversary of Chernobyl

Pisis

First time out of the vault
Sorry if this has been posted before but I see only one topic about Greenpeace claiming numbers of Chernobyl victims to be higher etc...

On Saturday, April 26, 1986, at 1:23:58 a.m. local time, the unit 4 reactor of the Chernobyl power plant—known as Chernobyl-4—suffered a catastrophic steam explosion that resulted in a fire, a series of additional explosions, and a nuclear meltdown.

The nuclear meltdown provoked a radioactive cloud which flew over Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, but also the European part of Turkey, Moldova, Lithuania, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Slovenia, Switzerland, Germany, Italy, France and the United Kingdom. In fact, the initial evidence in other countries that a major exhaust of radioactive material had occurred came not from Soviet sources, but from Sweden, where on April 27 workers at the Forsmark Nuclear Power Plant (approximately 1100 km from the Chernobyl site) were found to have radioactive particles on their clothes. It was Sweden's search for the source of radioactivity, after they had determined there was no leak at the Swedish plant, that led to the first hint of a serious nuclear problem in the Western Soviet Union. In France, the state then claimed that the radioactive cloud had stopped at the Italian border. Therefore, while some kinds of foods were prohibited in Italy because of radioactivity (in particular mushrooms), the French authorities didn't take any such measures, in an attempt to appease the population's fears.

Contamination from the Chernobyl accident was not evenly spread across the surrounding countryside, but scattered irregularly depending on weather conditions. Reports from Soviet and Western scientists indicate that Belarus received about 60% of the contamination that fell on the former Soviet Union. A large area in the Russian Federation south of Bryansk was also contaminated, as were parts of northwestern Ukraine.

Two-hundred and three people were hospitalized immediately, of whom 31 died (28 of them died from acute radiation exposure). Most of these were fire and rescue workers trying to bring the accident under control, who were not fully aware of how dangerous the radiation exposure (from the smoke) was. One-hundred and thirty-five thousand people were evacuated from the area, including 50,000 from the nearby town of Pripyat, Ukraine. Health officials have predicted that over the next 70 years there will be a 2% increase in cancer rates in much of the population which was exposed to the 5–12 (depending on source) EBq of radioactive contamination released from the reactor. An additional 10 individuals have already died of cancer as a result of the accident.

The workers involved in the recovery and cleanup after the accident, known as "liquidators", received high doses of radiation. According to Soviet estimates, between 300,000 and 600,000 liquidators were involved in the cleanup of the 30 km evacuation zone around the reactor, but many of them entered the zone two years after the accident.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

I remember that the Eastern blocks regimes were trying to keep the disaster in silence. Even two days after, the Czechoslovak Minister of Youth (a real Commie bitch, as all of them were...) announced in the media that nothing happens and kids can freely play outdoors. Even in the concrete village of Pripyat, kids were playing on playgrounds while soldiers walking arouind them with gasmaks... What a croocked regime that Communism was...

I suggest to look at more photos of the ghost town of Pripyat.
http://www.johndarwell.com/projects/i_lc/index.php
http://xpda.com/junkmail/junk153/chernobyl/page1.html

It's shocking... In my personal opinion (and it's quite obvious), the Fallout game was heavily inspired by this one...

Cheers,
Pisis
 
Ha, if this isn't our modern STALKER, I don't know what is. But I suppose many of us hoped flesh eating mutants would hop out from beneath the radioactive dust of that irradiated heap.

None yet.
 
The nuclear meltdown provoked a radioactive cloud which flew over Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, but also the European part of Turkey, Moldova, Lithuania, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Slovenia, Switzerland, Germany, Italy, France and the United Kingdom.
Do not forget about Poland :]

BTW hope they are going to release some news about S.T.A.L.K.E.R. as it is a good time
 
maybe they have enough morals not to try and make some easy money out of the memory of many people dying and even more suffering from the consequences.

besides it's already publicity as you're talking about it... this stuff sells itself, there is no need for extra marketing during the memorial.
 
Communism as a cause of Chernobyl explosion?
Your ass badly needs kicking for that nonsense of yours.
Think before you utter something like that in future.

The text changes too fast.
Nice choice of music, though.
 
Communism as a cause of Chernobyl explosion?
Your ass badly needs kicking for that nonsense of yours.
Think before you utter something like that in future.

I mean no harm in saying this but Communism definitely helped with the whole shinanigan of Chernobyl. It was not the leading cause however, but it definitely was an aspect tha tcould have been changed under government.

It does seem strange to blame a regime/government for such a thing, but I did my research a few years ago on the Chernobyl nuclear disaster for a research project. Although the aim of this project looked at environmental degradation and the biotic and abiotic affects of the accident, the way that the government responded to the forewarning of the disaster and the after effect, was not up to scratch.

But the same could be said about the US government in response to New Orleans, even though this was a natural disaster.
 
duckman said:
It <Communism> was not the leading cause however, but it definitely was an aspect that could have been changed under government.

Now that the aspect of Communism has been changed under government...
Do you suppose that if today one of our (Russian I mean) still working wonderful nuclear plants suddenly burst into flames, we would be able to save more people from radiation? I hereby claim that now we are even more unprepared for a disaster of such a scale.


duckman said:
It does seem strange to blame a regime/government for such a thing

No slash here. Communism as a regime and Communist government are not the same. And that was my point, actually.

duckman said:
the way that the government responded to the forewarning of the disaster and the after effect, was not up to scratch.

Yes we should've asked more of the government.

duckman said:
But the same could be said about the US government in response to New Orleans, even though this was a natural disaster.

It sure is a different thing. If you build a nuclear powerplant, please make sure it won't explode, or, if it by chance happens, please be ready to eliminate the aftermath. Since it's no secret nuke plants could be dangerous, better think twice before letting the genie outta the bottle. Simple and evident, yet we prefer not to think about possible consequences.

As well as before, human life doesn't cost a kopeika.

Today the possibility of another "Chernobyl" in Russia is dangerously high. We've got, for example, a nuke plant of the same Chernobyl type near Petersburg and that plant has already exceeded its working limit by 5 years. And it's still running. It possibly means that right now when you're reading my post, that particular plant could be melting down and poisonous substances gushing out of the reactor. Funny, isn't it?

The situation with our plants is really bad no matter what government runs the country today, or what regime they represent. How many more Chernobyls we could face? I'd say, about 20. Twenty.
 
[Rusty Chopper said:
]It sure is a different thing. If you build a nuclear powerplant, please make sure it won't explode, or, if it by chance happens, please be ready to eliminate the aftermath. Since it's no secret nuke plants could be dangerous, better think twice before letting the genie outta the bottle. Simple and evident, yet we prefer not to think about possible consequences.
do you think any country in the world is REALLY prepared for a meltdown? sure, we've got fancy plans read & special medicine caches standing by; but do you really think the effects wont be as bad as Chernobyl?
we wont send unprotected mofos to clean our shit up, yes. but thats about it...
 
SuAside said:
do you think any country in the world is REALLY prepared for a meltdown?

I thought about it, too. No matter where, the USSR or Russia, the US or Japan or France (you name it!), if a reactor explodes, people will be helpless. Thousands and thousands of casualties are inevitable.

Chernobyl was just another opportunity to blame Communism. And Capitalists didn't hesitate to use it.

Pisis said:
Rusty chopper, you're confused. Communism can't exists, because people aren't robots... It's an utopia.

I don't think so. I could fail to be completely sure, but I'm not in any way confused.

Maybe you wanted to say, "people aren't perfect". That's true, it is very difficult to change vicious human nature for the better, but it is possible. I get your idea, "we're all swines, so why not live in the dirt? Forget that utopia, because it'll never work." Fine, after all, it's up to you to decide what way to take. But for myself I've chosen the *idea*.

And a robot here are *you*. Because you tell me the same stereotypical phrase I get from lots of people around me. Tell me, where did they insert you the tape? Who zombified you?
 
Chernobyl was just another opportunity to blame Communism. And Capitalists didn't hesitate to use it.
We already have plenty of opportunities to do that. As a matter of fact, more then a hundred million last time I checked.

The inefficient Soviet economy and government caused Chernobly. And State Ownership caused that.

I don't think so. I could fail to be completely sure, but I'm not in any way confused.
You are right: you are a cocktail of naive and ignorant.

Maybe you wanted to say, "people aren't perfect". That's true, it is very difficult to change vicious human nature for the better, but it is possible. I get your idea, "we're all swines, so why not live in the dirt? Forget that utopia, because it'll never work." Fine, after all, it's up to you to decide what way to take.
You know what, I think it is possible too.

I just think that requires a benevolent omnipotent being.

You are right, it is up to him, just as it is up to you. That is called Liberalism. That is the only manmade ideology worth a damn, and the only that should be fought for. You want to go make a commune with a bunch of your Stalin loving brethren? Go right ahead. We will destroy you if you try and force you way upon us, though.

And a robot here are *you*. Because you tell me the same stereotypical phrase I get from lots of people around me. Tell me, where did they insert you the tape? Who zombified you?
NOW you are confused. I am no robot. I make my own decisions. I go to work when I want, say what I want, think what I want, pray what I want, and I do not think anyone has the right to determine every aspect of a personal and private life in the name of promoting an idea.

You are worse then the robot: you're the motherfucking automated factory, the censor and the Gulag all mixed in one.
 
When did you become Pisis's lawyer, John?

John Uskglass said:
We already have plenty of opportunities to do that. As a matter of fact, more then a hundred million last time I checked.

That makes you look like a maniac.

John Uskglass said:
The inefficient Soviet economy and government caused Chernobly. And State Ownership caused that.

You didn't read my above posts, did you? If you did, why did you write that nonsense again? Want me to endlessly refute it?

John Uskglass said:
You are right: you are a cocktail of naive and ignorant.

In return, I could say that you're a mixture of deaf haughtiness and disdain.

John Uskglass said:
You know what, I think it is possible too. I just think that requires a benevolent omnipotent being.

That's good that you believe. Belief makes people strong.

But "omnipotent" and "benevolent" are incompatible words. Incompatible with life.

John Uskglass said:
We will destroy you if you try and force you way upon us, though.

What I clearly know is that forcing Communism's no good. As well as forcing Liberalism/Democracy. It was a terrible mistake that should be never repeated.

John Uskglass said:
NOW you are confused. I am no robot.

That's what I respect you for, John. You've got your own way. Your own opinions. I didn't call *you* a robot.

John Uskglass said:
You are worse then the robot: you're the motherfucking automated factory, the censor and the Gulag all mixed in one.

Sounds like a compliment. I mean, a censor's post would be OK for me.

But believe me, John, I've never wanted to be a tyrant. It's really impossible to make people happy by oppressing them.
 
That makes you look like a maniac.
Okay, I can give you six reasons then.
Mao.jpg

Stalin_02.jpg

Pol_Pot.gif

Eguevara.jpg

Abimael_Guzman_6.jpg

Kamenev.lenin.jpg


Centralized power and utopian dreams never, ever end in anything but a douchebag taking power and killing people.

If you are looking for the other hundred million, try this.

You didn't read my above posts, did you? If you did, why did you write that nonsense again? Want me to endlessly refute it?
You did not refute it. It is impossible to refute. The 20th century proved that state managed economies failed, from India to the USSR to Mitterand to every corner of the third world.

In return, I could say that you're a mixture of deaf haughtiness and disdain.
Disdain's an ugly word. I disdain ideologies, I tend to not disdane people.

That's good that you believe. Belief makes people strong.
Tres Nietzsche.

What I clearly know is that forcing Communism's no good.
Then what is with the Leninist sig?

As well as forcing Liberalism/Democracy.
Tends on what 'forced' means. I'm not a Neocon anymore, though.


I mean, a censor's post would be OK for me.
That is why you fail. How could you praise individual thinking and 'the will to power' and at the same time dislike free speech and thought enough to consider the post of a censor in a Socialist Dictatorship?

wanted to be a tyrant
Most tyrants don't until they take power. Liberal Democracy provides checks and balances for that, a balance that is impossible to maintain without freedom from the State.
 
Well no mutants yet. I am sure Rad suits and anti rad drugs will become popular on that side of the world. Stock up on your PRO-KI folks.
 
Blaming Communism for Chernobyl is as retarded as blaming Capitalism on Three Mile Island.

Just sayin'.
 
I thought about it, too. No matter where, the USSR or Russia, the US or Japan or France (you name it!), if a reactor explodes, people will be helpless. Thousands and thousands of casualties are inevitable.

Minus Australia from the list.

We have only one nuclear reactor, which only used for medical tests and the like... Not electricity production, or anything on a large scale.

Although I'm sure a large enough meltdown occured (ie Chernobyl like) we may be affected.

Let me ask you John, are you a die hard capitalist?

Centralized power and utopian dreams never, ever end in anything but a douchebag taking power and killing people.

Well if you believe this, you think that capitalism will be the end all of the problems in this world?

Blaming Communism for Chernobyl is as retarded as blaming Capitalism on Three Mile Island.

Just sayin'.

Great call :lol:

I am not supporting either way here, but Communism did keep the larger countries back in the early industrial era when the rest of the world had entered the modern era. Let's take for example China, it's strength in it's economy is now sky high, and is fast becoming one of the largest importers and exporters, due to the country adopting a free market economy. This unprecedented growth is unstable, however. Due to Communism, this is, the country was kept back.

However, capitalism isn't without it's faults. It supports the richer of the population and keeps making them richer... And often squanders the poorer, who support the rich.
 
[Rusty Chopper said:
]
Pisis said:
Rusty chopper, you're confused. Communism can't exists, because people aren't robots... It's an utopia.

I don't think so. I could fail to be completely sure, but I'm not in any way confused.

Maybe you wanted to say, "people aren't perfect". That's true, it is very difficult to change vicious human nature for the better, but it is possible. I get your idea, "we're all swines, so why not live in the dirt? Forget that utopia, because it'll never work." Fine, after all, it's up to you to decide what way to take. But for myself I've chosen the *idea*.

And a robot here are *you*. Because you tell me the same stereotypical phrase I get from lots of people around me. Tell me, where did they insert you the tape? Who zombified you?

Who zombified me? Your greatest hero, J.V.Stalin, who completely destroyed my country and my family....

I don't live like a swine, cause I follow a certain life order. But Communism is bad in the fact that you work for someone else. Why can't you have more if you're more clever, handful and productive then someone other?
Why does one man has to work 70%, the other one 30% and they still get the same?

My statement stills.

And I even don't talk about the mass murders cause by this paranoic scumbag Stalin and his followers... If he wouldn¨t die, I think he'd end up like the Master....

square-large-lousy.jpg
 
Sorry to get back to you guys so late.

Thanks for the comments both good and bad.

Now to defend my position.

Communisim was one of the reasons, on of the several.

Communisim could be blamed for the hastely built reactor. Sure Fomin and Bryukhanov agreed to rush construction to get a fat bonus, but you also don't want to say no when asked to build it quickly. Mistakes were hidden, overlooked and corners were cut. Communisim doesn't really take well to excuses.

No one wanted to work in Siberia.

Communisim played a even bigger part after the accident. The initial cover up, lies about the death toll, and was proably one of the reasons Bryukhanov refuse to admit that the reactor was compromised. For the first 2 days after, even though there was Graphite all over the place, Bryukhanov informed everyone that the reactor was intact and that they were pumping water into it to cool it. This was actually making things worse.

Also it was the reason that the truth about what happened was hidden for so long after the accident. Censors would check any and every publication about the incident and remove any content they deemed classified.

Of course its not the only reason that the accident occured but it was one of the factors that led up to the incident.
 
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